Minutes applause for Mandela

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,647]

Be funny if we end up with a minutes silence with nobody applauding !

[RFC55 108,842]

Be funny if we end up with a minutes silence with nobody applauding !

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,647]

We might find out where bp9 sits, he'll be the only handwringer town !

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Well bring a banner to the stadium saying what you just said on it and see how you get on

Why? It's not a case of love him or bring a banner saying he's terrorist scum you moronic lefties crack me up

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

This is a trap and an opportunity for the mhedia to deflect from the Bheasts recent indiscretions, especially last night

DON'T FALL INTO THE TRAP

The mhedia will spread it worldwide if we do

[Hedgehog Slap 12]

Maybe he did what he had to do.

If there is a minutes silence I can stay quiet for that long.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Your beloved forces in Iraq and Afghanastan will have bombed and killed thousands of kids too but thats alright if its in the name of the union

Out of order

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I assume you know what south african apartheid is?

If he is a terrorist, how would you describe the south african governments of the day?

I know what apartheid is thanks

Just because Mandela used terrorist actions to combat it doesn't make him a saint it makes him just as bad

If the people that enforced apartheid were still alive and we somehow wanted to pay our respects to them then I'd have something to say about that too

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I don't think that's the issue.

You can't simply ignore the evils of Mandela's earlier involvement in terrorist activity just because he was fighting against an evil himself i.e. the apartheid government of South Africa during that period.

His engagement in the terrorist actions calculated and imposed by the aggressive wing of the ANC isn't at question. He admitted to it at his trial. Nor is it the sole factor, for me personally, that makes this suggested silence/applause an incredibly controversial issue. His time as President, after his release from prison, and much after the period of his life in discussion, was hardly a tenure which supported his portrayal as an African saint of equality and justice.

He publicly supported two of the most prominent and vicious dictatorial leaders of the 20th century in Muammar Gaddafi and Suharto in Indonesia. In fact, he awarded them both two of the highest South African honours available. Do we just choose to ignore that when we're judging his overall character? We can't. No semi-intelligent being can. Amnesty International refused his appeal to be recognised as a 'prisoner of conscience' - surely that raises your suspicions enough to at least acknowledge that the guy's past was in no means pardoned by the reputation gained in his later life?

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Whether you like it or not, the whole world is united in its public praise of Mandela.

If there is one single flicker of disrespect shown in Ibrox tomorrow (which is inevitable), we will get battered from pillar to post over it, and this time it won't just be Scotland, because the whole world will see it as disrespectful. So if we don't want to become public enemy number one tomorrow, then we need to use a bit of Realpolitik.

I advocate that irrespective of your personal feelings or opinions, you should just bite your tongue, and comply with the general consensus.

You may want to argue that that is the coward's way out, and you have to stand up for your principles.

I'd counter that with "stop being a pompous arse and don't f*****g harm my club tomorrow just so that you can feel big and clever."

If someone comes to Ibrox, even if they oppose all our principles and the things we hold dear, we still expect them to respect and observe our traditions, so we should do the same tomorrow.

Thanks for listening.

Stick to raising money for bricks pal

[jintybear 8,536]

.

[scottyc06 6,915]

Maybe he did what he had to do.

If there is a minutes silence I can stay quiet for that long.

So using terrorism & killing innocent people is ok because 'he did what he had to do' ??

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

So using terrorism & killing innocent people is ok because 'he did what he had to do' ??

Unbelievable isn't it

I'm sure the same people could argue Gerry Adams and Bin Laden just "did what he had to do" too

[Yorkie Bear 18]

Sometimes I despair at the reactions of some folk.

Mandela moved from peaceful protest to armed struggle and ended up an inclusive figure who talked to his former enemies. There are some people who seem to be saying that the period of his life that was the armed struggle defined him and therefore he should be condemned out of hand.

There is a big debate out there on 'freedom fighter or terrorist?' and it's not an easy question to answer. Those who are saying 'once a terrorist always a terrorist' are presumably saying that taking up arms is always wrong and that we must learn to live with our enemies. Fine and dandy in current day UK but it does not always translate to other times and places.

I thought that we Rangers fans prided ourselves on our good sense and dignity. Let's keep this and not behave in any way that will harm our Club.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Sometimes I despair at the reactions of some folk.

Mandela moved from peaceful protest to armed struggle and ended up an inclusive figure who talked to his former enemies. There are some people who seem to be saying that the period of his life that was the armed struggle defined him and therefore he should be condemned out of hand.

There is a big debate out there on 'freedom fighter or terrorist?' and it's not an easy question to answer. Those who are saying 'once a terrorist always a terrorist' are presumably saying that taking up arms is always wrong and that we must learn to live with our enemies. Fine and dandy in current day UK but it does not always translate to other times and places.

I thought that we Rangers fans prided ourselves on our good sense and dignity. Let's keep this and not behave in any way that will harm our Club.

There's no big debate on here at all

Everyone's in agreement bar half a dozen or so he's a terrorist that should not be respected

[GOAT 30,449]

What was it again 196 terrorism charges he pleaded GUILTY too? No thanks, stick your minutes applause up your arse.

[thehost 11,061]

Sometimes I despair at the reactions of some folk.

Mandela moved from peaceful protest to armed struggle and ended up an inclusive figure who talked to his former enemies. There are some people who seem to be saying that the period of his life that was the armed struggle defined him and therefore he should be condemned out of hand.

There is a big debate out there on 'freedom fighter or terrorist?' and it's not an easy question to answer. Those who are saying 'once a terrorist always a terrorist' are presumably saying that taking up arms is always wrong and that we must learn to live with our enemies. Fine and dandy in current day UK but it does not always translate to other times and places.

I thought that we Rangers fans prided ourselves on our good sense and dignity. Let's keep this and not behave in any way that will harm our Club.

killing people is wrong

get over it

as some folk partial to a fisting are want to shout

[scottyc06 6,915]

Sometimes I despair at the reactions of some folk.

Mandela moved from peaceful protest to armed struggle and ended up an inclusive figure who talked to his former enemies. There are some people who seem to be saying that the period of his life that was the armed struggle defined him and therefore he should be condemned out of hand.

There is a big debate out there on 'freedom fighter or terrorist?' and it's not an easy question to answer. Those who are saying 'once a terrorist always a terrorist' are presumably saying that taking up arms is always wrong and that we must learn to live with our enemies. Fine and dandy in current day UK but it does not always translate to other times and places.

I thought that we Rangers fans prided ourselves on our good sense and dignity. Let's keep this and not behave in any way that will harm our Club.

You'll see dignity from the Rangers support today, I'd be very surprised if there is anything that brings the club down today, however me and I'm sure many others will not be joining in the applause!

I don't see where this idea that everybody HAS to show support for an individual comes from? If you found yourself in a situation where people around you were giving Neil Lennon a minutes applause.. Would you join in? Of course you wouldn't! So why do people expect EVERYBODY to join in on this when there are clearly mixed views on the person!

Killing innocent people & causing terror, for instance the Johannesburg Train Station bombing, is 100% wrong regardless of what his overall objectives were! He may have done a lot of good in his life, but I fail to see where that makes up for killing innocent people and turns him into a 'hero'!

[thehost 11,061]

You'll see dignity from the Rangers support today, I'd be very surprised if there is anything that brings the club down today, however me and I'm sure many others will not be joining in the applause!

I don't see where this idea that everybody HAS to show support for an individual comes from? If you found yourself in a situation where people around you were giving Neil Lennon a minutes applause.. Would you join in? Of course you wouldn't! So why do people expect EVERYBODY to join in on this when there are clearly mixed views on the person!

Killing innocent people & causing terror, for instance the Johannesburg Train Station bombing, is 100% wrong regardless of what his overall objectives were! He may have done a lot of good in his life, but I fail to see where that makes up for killing innocent people and turns him into a 'hero'!

To be fair to treacle teeth he is only a 20th of a terrorist that mandela managed to be

[mearns loyal 2,714]

To all the handwringers I would ask "if I sit on my arse reading my programme when this applause is taking place how the fuck can that be deemed to be bringing the Club into disrepute"?

[Ulster Forevermore 28]

do you think attending an IRA funeral meant they deserved to die? As I recall only one person he killed was in a paramilitary. Therefore I'd say they were innocent.

Are you forgetting what these "innocents" did to the two British corporals in the following funerals. Stick to football because you know nothing about terrorism.

[govanblue 16,847]

You'll see dignity from the Rangers support today, I'd be very surprised if there is anything that brings the club down today, however me and I'm sure many others will not be joining in the applause!

I don't see where this idea that everybody HAS to show support for an individual comes from? If you found yourself in a situation where people around you were giving Neil Lennon a minutes applause.. Would you join in? Of course you wouldn't! So why do people expect EVERYBODY to join in on this when there are clearly mixed views on the person!

Killing innocent people & causing terror, for instance the Johannesburg Train Station bombing, is 100% wrong regardless of what his overall objectives were! He may have done a lot of good in his life, but I fail to see where that makes up for killing innocent people and turns him into a 'hero'!

Because irrespective of the rights and wrongs of it all, we are being set up for a fall.

I'm totally fine with people not clapping - as long as some people are clapping then we've met our obligation.

But the cameras will be scouring the stands looking for any cluster of non-participants, and trying to make it look like the whole stadium.

And if one single boo or jeer is heard, we'll be front-page on Sunday, and that will be highlighted in stark contrast to how impeccably it was upheld by those decent upstanding citizens of the east.

[govanblue 16,847]

To all the handwringers I would ask "if I sit on my arse reading my programme when this applause is taking place how the fuck can that be deemed to be bringing the Club into disrepute"?

hopefully I've just answered that.

sitting on hands is fine by me. booing is the danger.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Are you forgetting what these "innocents" did to the two British corporals in the following funerals. Stick to football because you know nothing about terrorism.

Radlord will never get it

Why he's still on here after his bile is beyond me

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

hopefully I've just answered that.

sitting on hands is fine by me. booing is the danger.

If the media report Rangers fans booing a dead terrorist in bad terms then I for one would be proud - grow a set and stop living your life by what the media think

Off your knees