Spectre 1,663 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 a job for our brothers in Hamburg?Maybe, I mean either way it's absolutely ridiculous if they ignore blatant evidence of unlawful state aid because of who sent it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Educator 1,572 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The easiest way to sort this out is for PZJ to request them to provide a definition of what they regard as a person with an interest in such a case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
72barca 1,788 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Spectre,I appreciate what you are saying, but let's look at an hypothetical situation.Supposing you were an investor who was interested in buying Rangers and you were based out of let's say Switzerland.You look at C1888c's situation and you decide that you can't compete with that kind of biased aid ( State Aid? ), and you say to yourself - 'What's the point?.' Rangers will therefore not benefit from International investment because of a perceived bias by the local authorities towards C1888c.Would that not cover International State Aid? All that would be required is one investor, who can prove 'Proof of funds' (Dave King?), to testify that this is how he perceived the situation to be, and how does the commission answer that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre 1,663 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Spectre,I appreciate what you are saying, but let's look at an hypothetical situation.Supposing you were an investor who was interested in buying Rangers and you were based out of let's say Switzerland.You look at C1888c's situation and you decide that you can't compete with that kind of biased aid ( State Aid? ), and you say to yourself - 'What's the point?.' Rangers will therefore not benefit from International investment because of a perceived bias by the local authorities towards C1888c.Would that not cover International State Aid? All that would be required is one investor, who can prove 'Proof of funds' (Dave King?), to testify that this is how he perceived the situation to be, and how does the commission answer that?No, I don't think it would, purely because Rangers are from the same member state, but it is state aid (provided all other tests are satisfied) once it is affecting trade competition from another member state which with Celtic there's the obvious footballing competition of CL and europa league where any assistance improves their chances of progressing at the expense of teams from other member states. There's another argument that some Celtic fans travel from the Republic of Ireland, every one of them has a local team that they are choosing Celtic over, if Celtic have received money or benefits that allow them improve their team or facilities to be more appealing to these people than they would be otherwise, at the expense of their local Irish teams then that again is something that is affecting competition between member states.Having looked at it now though to be an interested party you need only be affected by the aid so in straight forward terms a rangers shareholder could be but there could be a circular argument against that in that can rangers be truly affected when any anti competitive effect against Rangers, or any other team from the UK, would in isolation be perfectly lawful. There is also a question of whether it is affecting the individual complainer, even in his role as a shareholder, in terms of competition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabawsa 888 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 No, I don't think it would, purely because Rangers are from the same member state, but it is state aid (provided all other tests are satisfied) once it is affecting trade competition from another member state which with Celtic there's the obvious footballing competition of CL and europa league where any assistance improves their chances of progressing at the expense of teams from other member states. There's another argument that some Celtic fans travel from the Republic of Ireland, every one of them has a local team that they are choosing Celtic over, if Celtic have received money or benefits that allow them improve their team or facilities to be more appealing to these people than they would be otherwise, at the expense of their local Irish teams then that again is something that is affecting competition between member states.Having looked at it now though to be an interested party you need only be affected by the aid so in straight forward terms a rangers shareholder could be but there could be a circular argument against that in that can rangers be truly affected when any anti competitive effect against Rangers, or any other team from the UK, would in isolation be perfectly lawful. There is also a question of whether it is affecting the individual complainer, even in his role as a shareholder, in terms of competition.If you happen to be a Glaswegian or Glasgow based bear , even better. As a case can be made that it is your council's land and as a counci taxpayer and voter you are directly effected. Was this deal taking away monies from the council that are badly needed? Was your council outside influenced in anyway ,shape or form? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy 2,513 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Here is an excerpt from a piece in the herald."Essentially this amounts to another Scottish football club, none of whom were involved in the 11-month inquiries ahead of last week's decision by the European Commission not to proceed any further with the allegations"So with pzj being a shareholder does this not give him a right to appeal.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibroxholm 2,260 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Of the other club's currently being pursued by the EC under State Aid legislation, who is their complainant? Is this info in public domain, would certainly give a steer on the interested party requirement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy 2,513 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Of the other club's currently being pursued by the EC under State Aid legislation, who is their complainant? Is this info in public domain, would certainly give a steer on the interested party requirement.Thats the problem they are still under investigation it will only be when it gets thrown out and an appeal started would there be a need to know who the complainent is Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy 2,513 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 According to the gherald a member of rangers board enquired about the scums state aidhttp://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/columnists/inside-track-council-is-dealing-with-global-brands.25906834 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Educator 1,572 Posted November 21, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2014 So Gerry Braiden sees fit to write two articles in two days regarding this. First we had the "it cost £280,000" yesterday and new we're getting "they do the political side of things better" line. Its easy to do the political side better when it's your own share holders who are voting on the decisions. Tbh, I think they're a tad worried that this I not going away and the next time they might not be so lucky hence the propaganda wave. Faircity, soulboy, 72barca and 2 others 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy 2,513 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 New update on footballtaxhavens basically saying NHSGCC agreed the money they got from the scum for lennoxtown was to be used for an integrated health centre but it was not and the scottish government ended up funding it instead as the money that NHSGCC got was used to give back to the scum via the SLAhttp://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2014/11/22/nhsggc-board-only-approved-that-upper-site-funds-were-to-create-a-lennoxtown-integrated-health-centre-but-were-directed-to-celtic-sla/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NixonRFC 1,302 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I had to stop following PZJ, his "battle" with that other cretin Scotzine is fucking tedious, both of them come across as immature trumpets, neither has any credibility! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
choochooblue 342 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I had to stop following PZJ, his "battle" with that other cretin Scotzine is fucking tedious, both of them come across as immature trumpets, neither has any credibility!Couldn't agree more mate , he's been pissin me off for the last couple of months . I hope he's reading this and realises how ridiculous he comes across on twitter. We all know Muirhead is a Rangers Hater and it was funny when pzj found out about Muirhead not fulfilling his obligation on his Trust Deed , but now it's just coming across as childish tit-for-tat . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 72barca 1,788 Posted November 24, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 24, 2014 Listen mate, PZJ has given sterling service. He may be distracted for a little and blowing off steam. When he regains focus he will give us some good stuff again.On the other hand that other guy will always be an arsehole !!! Jonok, soulboy, Tontospal and 5 others 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Educator 1,572 Posted November 24, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 24, 2014 Such a pity that those who are so easy to moan about PZJ's efforts don't actually take up the call and do some of the work on this themselves. To have a dig at someone with to my knowledge has no legal training, but has been willing to take on the people involved in these scandals with their resources seems pretty poor fair to me. What next will they be posting there is no story here and that he's wasting his time and making it all up? Oh sorry, that's the mhedia and c****c's line isn't it. Tontospal, TheBEST-Simples, bexleybear and 5 others 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuckthespl 2,417 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Such a pity that those who are so easy to moan about PZJ's efforts don't actually take up the call and do some of the work on this themselves. To have a dig at someone with to my knowledge has no legal training, but has been willing to take on the people involved in these scandals with their resources seems pretty poor fair to me. What next will they be posting there is no story here and that he's wasting his time and making it all up? Oh sorry, that's the mhedia and c****c's line isn't it.Agreed. I work in the construction industry and deal with planning and building control. I can only admire the effort they have put in so far and they are onto something. Others should be joining in and make the voices abit louder and harder to deal with. Tontospal and mrmojorisin 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprotson11 147 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Such a pity that those who are so easy to moan about PZJ's efforts don't actually take up the call and do some of the work on this themselves. To have a dig at someone with to my knowledge has no legal training, but has been willing to take on the people involved in these scandals with their resources seems pretty poor fair to me. What next will they be posting there is no story here and that he's wasting his time and making it all up? Oh sorry, that's the mhedia and c****c's line isn't it.I think we all admire what pzj has done and is still doing, however some of his tweets could be seen to undermine what he is trying to achieve.In addition, his analysis of the annual accounts of Celtic is not entirely accurate, which again undermines what he is trying to achieve IMO left winger 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Educator 1,572 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sprotson11 "I think we all admire what pzj has done and is still doing, however some of his tweets could be seen to undermine what he is trying to achieve.In addition, his analysis of the annual accounts of Celtic is not entirely accurate, which again undermines what he is trying to achieve IMO"To my understanding PJZ is just a normal everyday guy who has no training in these matters so you can't expect him to deal with things any better than any of the rest of us would. From what we have seen he's had to field a fair amount of abuse for taking is on, have you tried to contact him to discuss the inaccuracies that you may have identified? I had a quick read through their accounts and to be truthful they seem to contradict themselves in regard to debt/no debt, please note I have no background in finance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getstiffed 8,863 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sprotson11 "I think we all admire what pzj has done and is still doing, however some of his tweets could be seen to undermine what he is trying to achieve.In addition, his analysis of the annual accounts of Celtic is not entirely accurate, which again undermines what he is trying to achieve IMO"To my understanding PJZ is just a normal everyday guy who has no training in these matters so you can't expect him to deal with things any better than any of the rest of us would. From what we have seen he's had to field a fair amount of abuse for taking is on, have you tried to contact him to discuss the inaccuracies that you may have identified? I had a quick read through their accounts and to be truthful they seem to contradict themselves in regard to debt/no debt, please note I have no background in finance.My missus, who btw hates football so no allegiances, says there accounts are cleverly done but anyone with a background in finance/business will tell you they are up to their necks in it.That degree finally paying off hen I said to her Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprotson11 147 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sprotson11 "I think we all admire what pzj has done and is still doing, however some of his tweets could be seen to undermine what he is trying to achieve.In addition, his analysis of the annual accounts of Celtic is not entirely accurate, which again undermines what he is trying to achieve IMO"To my understanding PJZ is just a normal everyday guy who has no training in these matters so you can't expect him to deal with things any better than any of the rest of us would. From what we have seen he's had to field a fair amount of abuse for taking is on, have you tried to contact him to discuss the inaccuracies that you may have identified? I had a quick read through their accounts and to be truthful they seem to contradict themselves in regard to debt/no debt, please note I have no background in finance. I understand that he is an "every day guy" and therefore IMO he should not state certain things as fact regarding the accounts when he does not have that expertise. I have contacted him directly on twitter regarding some of the points where I think he has been inaccurate. An example would be where he states that Celtic paid off their overdraft and have no cash at bank, yet the accounts show that it was paid off but there is still cash at the bank. Claiming certain things which are not true only undermines him when he gets other more important facts correct like the mortgage charges.Their accounts certainly do contradict themselves, they have been very clever about the, and do certain things before cut offs to ensure they are either in or out of the accounts.PZJ's overall claim that they are next financially stable is certainly accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tontospal 1,116 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I understand that he is an "every day guy" and therefore IMO he should not state certain things as fact regarding the accounts when he does not have that expertise. I have contacted him directly on twitter regarding some of the points where I think he has been inaccurate. An example would be where he states that Celtic paid off their overdraft and have no cash at bank, yet the accounts show that it was paid off but there is still cash at the bank. Claiming certain things which are not true only undermines him when he gets other more important facts correct like the mortgage charges.Their accounts certainly do contradict themselves, they have been very clever about the, and do certain things before cut offs to ensure they are either in or out of the accounts.PZJ's overall claim that they are next financially stable is certainly accurate.With respect you come across as pretty pedantic.I have no idea who PZJ is but he is beyond reproach for what he is doing on our behalf with negligible support. If our support could unite and rid itself of the divisive and apathetic we could be a force to reckon with and go after the real enemies of Rangers.A static protest of thousands of us outside of the City Chambers in George Square would bring this matter the attention and publicity it merits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprotson11 147 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 With respect you come across as pretty pedantic.I have no idea who PZJ is but he is beyond reproach for what he is doing on our behalf with negligible support. If our support could unite and rid itself of the divisive and apathetic we could be a force to reckon with and go after the real enemies of Rangers.A static protest of thousands of us outside of the City Chambers in George Square would bring this matter the attention and publicity it merits.I dont think I am being pedantic. I just feel that the stuff he gets wrong takes away from the stuff he gets right. It is very easy to discredit him if he keeps stating certain things as fact when they are not.I agree, PZJ is doing a fantastic job, but he needs to be careful he does not get sucked in tit for tat exchanges on twitter and concentrates on all the good work he has done so far and is still doing.I am only offering my opinion on how he can best focus his efforts to get the result that he deserves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tontospal 1,116 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I dont think I am being pedantic. I just feel that the stuff he gets wrong takes away from the stuff he gets right. It is very easy to discredit him if he keeps stating certain things as fact when they are not.I agree, PZJ is doing a fantastic job, but he needs to be careful he does not get sucked in tit for tat exchanges on twitter and concentrates on all the good work he has done so far and is still doing.I am only offering my opinion on how he can best focus his efforts to get the result that he deserves.Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I agree about Twitter spats, whoever they involve.Remember this is Scotland where a prominent journalist claims Whyte had wealth off the radar. It doesn't seem to have damaged his credibility. If anything it has had the opposite effect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faircity 186 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFREG 471 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Bump Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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