European Commission seek explanation on Celtic land deals

[The Mongoose 1,007]

Football Tax Havens has flushed out a big cellic fish on EDC. http://footballtaxha...lc-shareholder/

He has now updated his `interests` to include 500 cellic shares,which were not visible before!

Methinks it's time for The Mongoose to take the next stage re Ms Swinson

[The Educator 1,572]

Bump.

[Bad Robot 21,149]

Not sure if this was posted last week but again it's the council dragging their feet over the release of information.

http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/ApplicationsandDecisions/Decisions/2014/201402360.aspx

Applications and Decisions > Decisions > 2014 > Decision 228/2014

Decision 228/2014: Mr Jim Fraser and East Dunbartonshire Council

Services provided by Celtic Football Club under service level agreement: Failure to respond within statutory timescales

Reference No: 201402360

Decision Date: 28 October 2014

Summary

On 22 July 2014, Mr Fraser asked East Dunbartonshire Council (the Council) for information about the Council's service level agreement with Celtic FC. This decision finds that the Council failed to respond to the request within the timescale allowed by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 (FOISA). The decision also finds that the Council failed to comply with Mr Fraser's requirement for review within the timescale set down by FOISA.

Background

Date

Action

22 July 2014

Mr Fraser made an information request to the Council.

23 July 2014

Although the Council acknowledged the request, it did not respond to Mr Fraser's information request.

31 August 2014

Mr Fraser wrote to the Council, requiring a review in respect of its failure to respond.

1 September 2014

Again, although Mr Fraser received an acknowledgement, he did not receive a response to his requirement for review.

1 October 2014

Mr Fraser wrote to the Commissioner's Office, stating that he was dissatisfied with the Council's failures to respond and applying to the Commissioner for a decision in terms of section 47(1) of FOISA.

6 October 2014

The Council was notified in writing that an application had been received from Mr Fraser and was invited to comment on the application.

20 October 2014

The Commissioner received submissions from the Council. These submissions are considered below.

Commissioner's analysis and findings

1. Section 10(1) of FOISA gives Scottish public authorities a maximum of 20 working days following the date of receipt of the request to comply with a request for information. This is subject to qualifications which are not relevant in this case.

2. It is a matter of fact that the Council did not provide a response to Mr Fraser's request for information within 20 working days, so the Commissioner finds that it failed to comply with section 10(1) of FOISA.

3. Section 21(1) of FOISA gives Scottish public authorities a maximum of 20 working days following the date of receipt of the requirement to comply with a requirement for review. Again, this is subject to qualifications which are not relevant in this case.

4. It is a matter of fact that the Council did not provide a response to Mr Fraser's requirement for review within 20 working days, so the Commissioner finds that it failed to comply with section 21(1) of FOISA.

5. The Council acknowledged that it had failed to respond to Mr Fraser's information request and requirement for review. It did so on 22 October 2014, so the Commissioner does not require it to take any further action in relation to Mr Fraser's application. Although the Council invited him to do so, it is not necessary for Mr Fraser to request a further review.

Decision

The Commissioner finds that East Dunbartonshire Council failed to comply with Part 1 of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 (FOISA) in responding to the information request made by Mr Fraser. In particular, the Council failed to respond to Mr Fraser's request for information and requirement for review within the timescales laid down by sections 10(1) and 21(1) of FOISA.

The Commissioner does not require the Council to take any action in respect of these failures, in response to Mr Fraser's application, given that a response has now been provided.

Appeal

Should either Mr Fraser or East Dunbartonshire Council wish to appeal against this decision, they have the right to appeal to the Court of Session on a point of law only. Any such appeal must be made within 42 days after the date of intimation of this decision.

Euan McCulloch

Deputy Head of Enforcement

28 October 2014

Link to PDF file of decision 228/2014 (103 kb)

Back to Top

[The Educator 1,572]

In the end this side of things will depend on whether or not certain officials will be willing to fall on their swords and take the blame and punishments while trying to keep the club clear of responsibility. I doubt if anybody on here has any thoughts other than that certain people face a prima facia case for fraud with the possibility of jail time if it was proven in court.

The refusal to answer FOI's is just the first step, we have already seen that a lot of documentation seems to either have been lost/removed or just not completed and it should be noted that this has not happened at just on organisation involved, it would seem to have happened at most simultaneously. I wonder what the odds are on that happening concerning documentation regarding contracts with one organisation and at least three civil bodies? Would I not be right in thinking there is a legal requirement for civil bodies to maintain the integrity of records involving the sort of sums that are involved here? The one thing I can confirm from personal experience is that EDC are a body that like completed paperwork from the lowest levels up, especially in he case of SLA's with external organisations.

I can only hope that when the shit does hit the fan that our club will be in a strong enough position to make it clear to the football authorities that if they don't hit "them" with the maximum penalties then our club will take court action to recover revenues lost due to the actions taken against it by the authorities before the club was cleared of any major wrong doings. Remember that officials past & present of "that" club have already sentenced their own by making demands that we should have titles & trophies stripped for financial doping which in their words was equal to match fixing.

[soulboy 2,518]

Not sure if this was posted last week but again it's the council dragging their feet over the release of information.

http://www.itspublic.../201402360.aspx

Applications and Decisions > Decisions > 2014 > Decision 228/2014

Decision 228/2014: Mr Jim Fraser and East Dunbartonshire Council

Services provided by Celtic Football Club under service level agreement: Failure to respond within statutory timescales

Reference No: 201402360

Decision Date: 28 October 2014

Summary

On 22 July 2014, Mr Fraser asked East Dunbartonshire Council (the Council) for information about the Council's service level agreement with Celtic FC. This decision finds that the Council failed to respond to the request within the timescale allowed by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 (FOISA). The decision also finds that the Council failed to comply with Mr Fraser's requirement for review within the timescale set down by FOISA.

Background

Date

Action

22 July 2014

Mr Fraser made an information request to the Council.

23 July 2014

Although the Council acknowledged the request, it did not respond to Mr Fraser's information request.

31 August 2014

Mr Fraser wrote to the Council, requiring a review in respect of its failure to respond.

1 September 2014

Again, although Mr Fraser received an acknowledgement, he did not receive a response to his requirement for review.

1 October 2014

Mr Fraser wrote to the Commissioner's Office, stating that he was dissatisfied with the Council's failures to respond and applying to the Commissioner for a decision in terms of section 47(1) of FOISA.

6 October 2014

The Council was notified in writing that an application had been received from Mr Fraser and was invited to comment on the application.

20 October 2014

The Commissioner received submissions from the Council. These submissions are considered below.

Commissioner's analysis and findings

1. Section 10(1) of FOISA gives Scottish public authorities a maximum of 20 working days following the date of receipt of the request to comply with a request for information. This is subject to qualifications which are not relevant in this case.

2. It is a matter of fact that the Council did not provide a response to Mr Fraser's request for information within 20 working days, so the Commissioner finds that it failed to comply with section 10(1) of FOISA.

3. Section 21(1) of FOISA gives Scottish public authorities a maximum of 20 working days following the date of receipt of the requirement to comply with a requirement for review. Again, this is subject to qualifications which are not relevant in this case.

4. It is a matter of fact that the Council did not provide a response to Mr Fraser's requirement for review within 20 working days, so the Commissioner finds that it failed to comply with section 21(1) of FOISA.

5. The Council acknowledged that it had failed to respond to Mr Fraser's information request and requirement for review. It did so on 22 October 2014, so the Commissioner does not require it to take any further action in relation to Mr Fraser's application. Although the Council invited him to do so, it is not necessary for Mr Fraser to request a further review.

Decision

The Commissioner finds that East Dunbartonshire Council failed to comply with Part 1 of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 (FOISA) in responding to the information request made by Mr Fraser. In particular, the Council failed to respond to Mr Fraser's request for information and requirement for review within the timescales laid down by sections 10(1) and 21(1) of FOISA.

The Commissioner does not require the Council to take any action in respect of these failures, in response to Mr Fraser's application, given that a response has now been provided.

Appeal

Should either Mr Fraser or East Dunbartonshire Council wish to appeal against this decision, they have the right to appeal to the Court of Session on a point of law only. Any such appeal must be made within 42 days after the date of intimation of this decision.

Euan McCulloch

Deputy Head of Enforcement

28 October 2014

Link to PDF file of decision 228/2014 (103 kb)

Back to Top

So does this mean that the council now don't have to give Mr Fraser the info ? if so what is the point ? councils should be fined if they don't come up with the information requested

[sprotson11 147]

So does this mean that the council now don't have to give Mr Fraser the info ? if so what is the point ? councils should be fined if they don't come up with the information requested

It seems to me that he has been given a response now, so I guess they have fulfilled his FOI request

[soulboy 2,518]

It seems to me that he has been given a response now, so I guess they have fulfilled his FOI request

Ok thanx after reading it again it does look like he's got a response

[72barca 1,788]

The Educator, post #2517,

Since you envisage a case for fraud who would advance this, the police and the CPS? If so, how can such an investigation be ensured, would it require a complaint from a member of the public to get it started?

Which officials do you mean - those of EDC or those from CFC?

As regards your third paragraph, I can't see a better use for the RFFF funds !

[linfield1690 4,249]

I know fuckall about all this stuff but you lads are doing a fine job keep up the pressure lads WATP keep believing

[jimfaebrigton 31]

rfff money phiff ac milan tops cost money wonder where the start up cash for that venture came from

[The Educator 1,572]

72Barca - "Since you envisage a case for fraud who would advance this, the police and the CPS? If so, how can such an investigation be ensured, would it require a complaint from a member of the public to get it started?

Which officials do you mean - those of EDC or those from CFC?

As regards your third paragraph, I can't see a better use for the RFFF funds !"

Tbh, I think ha it would take a request from a Scottish MP or an MSP to get them to take a look at this, as for Police Scotland or the CPS I don't know how the system works in terms of who you go to first and then who it would be passed on to. In my post I was talking about officials from EDC and The Lennoxown Partnership, likewise this would cover officials from GCC who were involved with the land deals in Glasgow. If there was an investigation an it was found that officials from that club had deliberately encouraged public officials to break the law then they would also have to be looked at in terms of prosecution.

What you have to realise is there are many levels to this, firstly were laws of the land broken to accommodate the fraudulent passing of public money to a football club by people within public organisations who had shares in or a close connection to that club This would be an investigation with an eye to ringing charges of criminal fraud.

Secondly were football laws being broken by the club as they were in receipt of illegal state aid and as such were able to field teams that they otherwise would not have been able to, financial doping. It is the latter that the EU is looking at just now. If found guilty the club will have to pay back sum to the public bodies involved and thirdly football authorities would have to carry out their own investigation with an eye to taking action to punish the club via footballing penalties. This is the "mistake" they made in how they dealt with Rangers, they investigated and announced punishment before a legal decision of guilt had been made, don't expect them to make that "mistake" in the case of c****c.

I admit that I have a bias in my opinion on this matter, but I can't see in all honesty that there could be anyway to avoid the investigations I have listed in the first and third scenarios of is post if the EU were to launch a full investigation to state aid and found them guilty. Do I believe that they will have enough power to sweep this under the carpet because of the people involved? I would like to think not, but I do believe that the warning signs are there.

[MisterC 12,270]

Havent been on this thread in a couple of months or so. Whats been happening recently, can anyone give me a summary please?

[Bad Robot 21,149]

Any Thursday now Mr C (I hope).

[B1872 20,700]

109 pages and not really any movement or even a hint of a full investigation, not to mention nothing in the press. Hate to say it but I fear the worst that this will be getting swept under the carpet with the rest of their 'secrets'

[King Jela 20,361]

Hope no one actually got their hopes up about this.

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

48 hours...

[soulboy 2,518]

Saw a tweet yesterday saying another foreign club under investigation for alleged state aid, if it was just the scum who were under investigation then one might think they'd get away with it but with a Norwegian club last month as well being investigated.

The noose might just be getting a bit tighter round the scums neck.

john stevens retweeted

Alexander Rose @StateAidLaw · Nov 8

Croatian football club Dinamo Zagreb is being investigated for unlawful #StateAid http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/92749194/public-support-sports-name-game-football …

[bluenose1975 1,287]

Bump

[eejay the dj 31,964]

Oh look their all closing ranks on this now.

yes mate and they know the longer it's kept quiet ,the better chance of it getting brushed under carpet

[Der Hammer 160]

Got an email saying Celtic have been cleared, Pzj has also confirmed this. Fucking disgrace.

[Spectre 1,663]

Got an email saying Celtic have been cleared, Pzj has also confirmed this. Fucking disgrace.

Had a look at his twitter feed and don't see him saying they've been cleared, who sent the email?

[Der Hammer 160]

European Commission mate I had a convo in private with John (Pzj).

[quinty 1,445]

That's a shame

[BridgeIsBlue 66,606]

Confirmed?

EDIT;

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/ec-rules-celtic-fc-didnt-get-state-aid-in-land-deal-with-glasgow-city-council.1415892138

[Der Hammer 160]

Confirmed?

Defo confirmed in email.pzj has received the same email and it is being reported on Twitter by some journos and papers.