Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 How much could we have raised if fighting fund had continued along these lines, are we guilty of procrastinating, expecting wealthy 'Rangers Fans' to bail us out?http://www.dothebouncy.com/articles/do-the-math-the-club-could-be-fan-controlled-in-three-months/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskbankloyal 19,446 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yes, we most definitely are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 So you have set up your CIC so that all your clubs fans can become members of this Holding Company by contributing small amounts on a monthly basis but do the numbers really add up?There seems to be a view that a Club the size of Rangers could not be Fanowned so lets look at the numbers in order to show how it could be bought and what could then happen.First some context from other Clubs that either have, have tried or are going through the Fanownership process.Clyde - 461 members £30 per person per year. The Original CIC Fan Owned ClubSt Mirren – 1007 pledged members. Average pledge £13.50 per person per month. £1.25m bid from fans was not accepted in the end by current ownersDunfermline Numbers the centenary Club in particular is interesting over 1000 members all paying £20 per monthMotherwell – 1200 members, Cash lump sum raised of £400,000Hearts – 7600 members giving an avg between £15 and £20 per monthSo Rangers Fans that is the bench mark for you from Clubs across the divisions.Let us assume, and i think that it is a reasonable assumption, that it is possible to galvanise Fans of a Club around a new single issue organisation looking to buy the Clubs Shares and that there is a direct link between the Size of the Club and the number of fans that could be engaged as members and contributors to the CIC.So on the numbers above is it reasonable to expect 40,000 RFC fans to be able to contribute?X5 the number engaged in the Hearts process, how much bigger is RFC than HMFC?Let us assume that it is, if this number is high then it will not be that far out, and you can only spend what you have coming in so it is just a case of Pro Rata down the way and it just takes a bit longer to buy the shares, and if the number is low great news the Club will be Fanowned before you know it.Now not going to get too technical here about the Takeover Code for AIM listed companies, and about how share prices could change (both up and down) as you buy shares but there are some issues that will need dealt with, but lets park these for the moment and focus just on buying the shares.The current share price can be found at the below link along with a note of all the tradesFollow the Rangers Shares PriceSo as it stands today if you were able to buy all the Clubs shares then in theory it would cost £18m.However as a PLC it is not all about owning all of it.51% a simple majority would give Fans all the control they would likely ever need ….value £9mHowever PLC’s are all about fair representation of Shareholders on the Board of the Company so as a start you just need to get a CIC nominated director on the BoardThe below was the case before Mr Hughes sold his shares so we don’t know yet if they have landed with any of the others.it should update at the link below in time.Where are Rangers Shares?ShareholderNo of Ordinary Shares held% of issued share capitalLaxey Partners Ltd7,578,67211.64%Artemis Investment Management LLP5,479,0008.42%Hargreave Hale Limited4,601,6887.07%Blue Pitch Holding*4,000,0006.14%Miton Capital Partners3,143,8574.83%Mike Ashley3,000,0004.61%Alexander Easdale*2,942,9574.52%Margarita Funds Holding Trust*2,600,0003.99%Richard Hughes2,200,0003.38%So as you can see for the Fan Controlled CIC to be the single biggest shareholder would only take a 11.65% (say 12% for ease sake) = £2.16m£2.16m would make the fans the largest single shareholder and although it is not a guarantee of anything but just because of the way PLC’s work it is very hard for a board to ignore that, when the shares are actually owned by the Fans CIC (this is not the same as a group having a load of proxies for an AGM)So lets follow this logic through.Assume 40,000 fans giving on Average £18.72 per month to the CIC and then this money going straight out to buy shares.£748,800 per month.So you would have raised in less than 3 months………….3 MONTHS….enough to take control of your club backQuick question……..what are you waiting for? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Rd 2,860 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Already a post done on this mate:http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=263990 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Already a post done on this mate:http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=263990Ok cheers, this was part 2 published today, didn't realise it had been done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingObv 10,639 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Maths Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasa_Papac_No1_Fan 605 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 So you have set up your CIC so that all your clubs fans can become members of this Holding Company by contributing small amounts on a monthly basis but do the numbers really add up?There seems to be a view that a Club the size of Rangers could not be Fanowned so lets look at the numbers in order to show how it could be bought and what could then happen.First some context from other Clubs that either have, have tried or are going through the Fanownership process.Clyde - 461 members £30 per person per year. The Original CIC Fan Owned ClubSt Mirren – 1007 pledged members. Average pledge £13.50 per person per month. £1.25m bid from fans was not accepted in the end by current ownersDunfermline Numbers the centenary Club in particular is interesting over 1000 members all paying £20 per monthMotherwell – 1200 members, Cash lump sum raised of £400,000Hearts – 7600 members giving an avg between £15 and £20 per monthSo Rangers Fans that is the bench mark for you from Clubs across the divisions.Let us assume, and i think that it is a reasonable assumption, that it is possible to galvanise Fans of a Club around a new single issue organisation looking to buy the Clubs Shares and that there is a direct link between the Size of the Club and the number of fans that could be engaged as members and contributors to the CIC.So on the numbers above is it reasonable to expect 40,000 RFC fans to be able to contribute?X5 the number engaged in the Hearts process, how much bigger is RFC than HMFC?Let us assume that it is, if this number is high then it will not be that far out, and you can only spend what you have coming in so it is just a case of Pro Rata down the way and it just takes a bit longer to buy the shares, and if the number is low great news the Club will be Fanowned before you know it.Now not going to get too technical here about the Takeover Code for AIM listed companies, and about how share prices could change (both up and down) as you buy shares but there are some issues that will need dealt with, but lets park these for the moment and focus just on buying the shares.The current share price can be found at the below link along with a note of all the tradesFollow the Rangers Shares PriceSo as it stands today if you were able to buy all the Clubs shares then in theory it would cost £18m.However as a PLC it is not all about owning all of it.51% a simple majority would give Fans all the control they would likely ever need ….value £9mHowever PLC's are all about fair representation of Shareholders on the Board of the Company so as a start you just need to get a CIC nominated director on the BoardThe below was the case before Mr Hughes sold his shares so we don't know yet if they have landed with any of the others.it should update at the link below in time.Where are Rangers Shares?ShareholderNo of Ordinary Shares held% of issued share capitalLaxey Partners Ltd7,578,67211.64%Artemis Investment Management LLP5,479,0008.42%Hargreave Hale Limited4,601,6887.07%Blue Pitch Holding*4,000,0006.14%Miton Capital Partners3,143,8574.83%Mike Ashley3,000,0004.61%Alexander Easdale*2,942,9574.52%Margarita Funds Holding Trust*2,600,0003.99%Richard Hughes2,200,0003.38%So as you can see for the Fan Controlled CIC to be the single biggest shareholder would only take a 11.65% (say 12% for ease sake) = £2.16m£2.16m would make the fans the largest single shareholder and although it is not a guarantee of anything but just because of the way PLC's work it is very hard for a board to ignore that, when the shares are actually owned by the Fans CIC (this is not the same as a group having a load of proxies for an AGM)So lets follow this logic through.Assume 40,000 fans giving on Average £18.72 per month to the CIC and then this money going straight out to buy shares.£748,800 per month.So you would have raised in less than 3 months………….3 MONTHS….enough to take control of your club backQuick question……..what are you waiting for?1 team fanowned that are not in admin or have just came out of admin, Hearts could still die, St Mirren with big REA in charge failed so not a good choice. Do the research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Rd 2,860 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Ok cheers, this was part 2 published today, didn't realise it had been done.Yeps, and the guy is answering questions in the thread also Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Rd 2,860 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 1 team fanowned that are not in admin or have just came out of admin, Hearts could still die, St Mirren with big REA in charge failed so not a good choice. Do the research.Aye, noticed ur replies in the other thread.....no discussion, just negative comments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 1 team fanowned that are not in admin or have just came out of admin, Hearts could still die, St Mirren with big REA in charge failed so not a good choice. Do the research.Perhaps because the fans aren't motivated to get off their arses until their team is in mortal danger...sound familiar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 MathsI do believe the saying is 'Do the Math' Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The thought of fan ownership Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingObv 10,639 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I do believe the saying is 'Do the Math'Aye if you're American Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 The thought of fan ownership I know but this is about how to do it, not about reality of living with it I do think it's pretty straightforward though, if implemented democratically.I've said before if you can get an ongoing monthly subscription to fund the club after the initial purchase it may just work Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Aye if you're AmericanPedantic prick, take it up with the author. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingObv 10,639 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Pedantic prick, take it up with the author.I'll take it up with who I want, cunt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'll take it up with who I want, cunt.Nothing to add to the thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Can I take this opportunity to remind you both that name calling is forbidden If it doesn't stop I'll be forced to raise your warning levels Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getstiffed 8,863 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The thought of fan ownership Scary innit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Can I take this opportunity to remind you both that name calling is forbidden If it doesn't stop I'll be forced to raise your warning levels ThanksFuck off Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Scary innit.What's scary? Is not as if we need to agree...just as well really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Fuck off Have 24h pre mod to calm you down Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getstiffed 8,863 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 What's scary? Is not as if we need to agree...just as well really.Agreed Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasa_Papac_No1_Fan 605 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Perhaps because the fans aren't motivated to get off their arses until their team is in mortal danger...sound familiar?Yeah, because we as fans should spend all of our money on saving Rangers, who cares about family and rent /loans. £18.72 doesn't sound much but that is gas and electricity to some people in the house a week, and yet you expect us to throw that cash into Rangers right now when we as a club need to cut costs 1st. Also who gives you the right to call our fans lazy when you haven't put enough in to save the club. You have the funds to run Rangers? No you don't, so let the RST do their BuyRangers and fail like the Blue Knights did and see what GW's next move is with cutting cost Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yeah, because we as fans should spend all of our money on saving Rangers, who cares about family and rent /loans. £18.72 doesn't sound much but that is gas and electricity to some people in the house a week, and yet you expect us to throw that cash into Rangers right now when we as a club need to cut costs 1st. Also who gives you the right to call our fans lazy when you haven't put enough in to save the club. You have the funds to run Rangers? No you don't, so let the RST do their BuyRangers and fail like the Blue Knights did and see what GW's next move is with cutting costSimple. If you can't afford it don't pay it, hardly compulsory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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