In support of Dignified Silence

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Sum up in a few sentences please?

Stop believing and reacting to pish - concentrate on getting back to the top. Laugh at them.

(90 character summation!

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

In my opinion the club handled the situation with the "irish" blogger well last week because the reaction of the club was proportional to the concern it says was being raised by supporters,a dignified silence in this case would have resulted in the "irish" blogger's poison being regurgitated through social media,phone ins and hotlines ad nauseam and damaged the club in it's attempt to put itself on a more stable financial footing.

There is a dignity in staying silent but there's a danger that this silence will be misconstrued as weakness and rangers aren't in a strong enough position yet to choose the luxury of a dignified silence.

[Ace 3,556]

Nowhere in the OP's article does he say we shouldn't react, he says we should only react when necessary.

The club cannot react to EVERY story, for example, written by someone who lives in Ireland just because it gets traction with those in Celtic circles, by doing to you give the man a reason for being & credence to his self-proclaimed status as a "Journalist".

Of course there are times when the club should react but not to every wound the support feels has been inflicted upon us ... we are, sometimes, too sensitive for our own good.

[eastcoastbear 122]

I think you are a complete cult. An absolute cult. And a pure cult.

This.

What a load of handwringing pish. (Not you Moses!).

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

I think we should react with undignified silence. Roll Ally or whoever out in front of the media and get him to stare at them menacingly, maybe even make a throat slashing gesture.

[TheBluebells 6,898]

Where in what he wrote did he say don't be proud of our history? What i got is nowadays separate any politics and religion from points we try to make, which i think is fair enough.

He also didn't say never react, he said don't react to everything and anything, again i think that's fair enough.

We should be challenging certain things and reacting to certain things but not every single instance.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Stop believing and reacting to pish - concentrate on getting back to the top. Laugh at them.

(90 character summation!

How does fighting back stop us getting back to the top?

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

Sum up in a few sentences please?

Bend over and take it up the arse, that's the Rangers way, appears to be what he's suggesting.

[simon 1,743]

Rangers have clear links to these things whether you like it or not

Politics and football don't mix well. I'm a proud unionist but I wouldn't ever bring that to the football. I go to watch sport, that's it.

[Bertent 2,081]

I think you are a complete cult. An absolute cult. And a pure cult.

I dont agree with you, however in this instance you appear to be 100% correct in your assessment.

[theiconicman 2,991]

I think those that are objecting to what BP9 has wrote are those that have difficultly separating supporting Rangers the football club, with defending Protestant and Unionist viewpoints.

I say that as someone who values the Union and comes from Protestant stock.

The club should not be a mouthpiece for racial, religious or political views. We can be identified with it, through the wider support base, but is not for the club to take those battles on.

Being seen as a club with a strong Protestant and Unionist history and fanbase is good and the club should develop those links to the past and also be inclusive for the future. However it is not an advocacy body for these views.

As BP9 rightly points out, we're a sporting institution and our focus should be on achieving our sporting goals. The club should only get involved in wider issues where it perceives to significantly damage the brand.

We as supporters have a duty too. Demanding the club react to each our own political viewpoints and sensitivities is a road to ruin. We need to support the club in the sporting sense and fight the political fights as a supporter group.

The vanguard bears are a great example of how this can operate.

[cushynumber 25,178]

I think you get a hard time from some people BP, quite unfairly a lot of the time. Some of what you have written here is pretty reasonable, but I don't accept your dignified silence contention. We (the club) do need to choose our battles, but for me there are more battles the club need to be involved in than you seem to think there are. There IS a wee coordinated cabal of bigots who are determined to damage the image of the club. I think they are organised and have a strategy and I think we need to have a defensive strategy to deal with them. They try to sow worry and discontent and are pretty effective at it. They also dirty the name of the club and employ language that's designed to promote their twisted, bigoted idea of what Rangers is. Dignified silence won't work against that. This Dirtying of the Rangers name will affect the impression of those that don't know any better of what Rangers is. We have to make sure they do know better and the best way is for the club to discredit these maniacs and show the world what they really are and what their agenda is. Sun Tzu, and more relevantly Machiavelli, also advocated that the best defence involves destroying the enemy's ability to attack...

this for me.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Politics and football don't mix well. I'm a proud unionist but I wouldn't ever bring that to the football. I go to watch sport, that's it.

They've mixed fine for our fanbase throughout our long history

[simon 1,743]

It's a bit late for that, Simon. Not only can we not erase our history - we have no need to.

I'm proud of our clubs heritage.

PS: Be sure to avoid the next forces day at Ibrox - I wouldn't like to witness your discomfort when the clubs alliances are so publicly laid bare.

Who asked for our history to be erased?

I don't think I will avoid anything thanks. I don't really think we should have an armed forces day at Ibrox in all honesty, but it won't stop me showing my appreciation when the forces are there. Remeberence day is different obviously.

[simon 1,743]

They've mixed fine for our fanbase throughout our long history

I said I 3 times, which means I'm talking about me personally.

[simplythebest 11,453]

I said I 3 times, which means I'm talking about me personally.

Obviously but you putting your opinion on here means it'll be responded to

[bawsburst 1,381]

Dignified silence, surely the biggest misnomer ever applied to the affairs of The Rangers, there is nothing dignified about getting your arse kicked from pillar to post and cowering in a corner awaiting the next onslaught and hiding that cowering under the cloak of dignified silence.

[IanCurtis 155]

Dignified Silence – it is a term bandied about, in a very derogatory way, on RM (and I suspect elsewhere) every time someone feels the club has not reacted when our club or support has in some way been attacked. Whether that attack is real or not, valid or not, or even truthful or not, if the club has not reacted within an hour or so we have poster after poster having a go at the club for not responding. And therein, for me, lies the problem. What should the club react to? When should the club react? How should the club react? And there are a few other questions as well that go hand in hand with these, Does the club act on behalf of the support? Does the Club act on behalf of the Shareholders? Or does the club provide leadership for both.

Now there is no point in me writing about what has happened to us, in some ways it matters not a jot how we got where we are, it has happened. What I believe we must do is take care of the future and to do that we need to set ourselves 2 strategic goals. I would be shocked if there is any Rangers fan who would disagree with me on either of these:

1. We must never again allow our club to be in the position where we have to suffer an insolvency event.
   
2. We must make sure the club returns to at least the position we were in prior to this mess, at the top of the Scottish football tree, or even better.
   

Now, before I move on let me deal with the subject of revenge.

Yes, I have stated, we are where we are. Having said that, I lay the BLAME for being where we are jointly with ‘Sir’ David Murray, who went from my hero to zero because of the way he dealt with our sale, and the charlatan Craig Whyte. For those two men I sure hope that Karma is the bitch she is meant to be. I believe the law will catch up with the charlatan but I suspect I will have to rely on Karma to deal with Murray.

Along side blame there were those that leapt on our weakness and kicked us, bludgeoned us, and besmirched us, on our way down. To me Football is a sport, but at the top level, many have lost sight of that. At the top level football is a business, and ‘Business is War’. Now I don’t BLAME those who tried to use our fall to strengthen their own position, but that does not mean I forgive them, nor have forgotten how we were treated by them. The full quote, attributed to Kevin O’Leary, but in homage to Sun Tzu, states “

Business is war. I go out there, I want to kill the competitors. I want to make their lives miserable. I want to steal their market share. I want them to fear me and I want everyone on my team thinking we're going to win.” I find little to disagree with in that quote, and yet here I am about to defend ‘Dignified Silence’

Ok, so we are in a war – but one does not go to war ‘Just because!’! One goes to war to achieve something. Now I could witter on all day with examples of war, and relate them to business, but I am going to distil that down to this “War is the projection and protection of power”.

In this Rangers ‘war’ we have taken a hell of a beating. We were badly led and let down by our (supposed) allies. We have had our Dunkirk and had to retreat, all the way to the bottom rung of the professional game. We have retrenched, went through the turmoil of looking for new leadership and now we are looking forward. Now we are looking how we win our war.

So, for those of you still reading, that brings me back to my goals, long term stability and returning to the top of the football tree and once more sitting at the top table.( At least we can do that in Scottish terms, business being business, getting to the top of the world tree, where we belong, will take some sort of shift at the top so we can access the power of TV cash, but before we look to take on those battles we need to first be the football power in Scotland.)

Now I need to digress once more to make sure I am very clear on a few points. To me Rangers are a Football Club. I fully understand that it operates as a Business and I fully understand that it needs to fight to get back to the top. I also embrace the desire for revenge and to hurt those that kicked us while we were forced to retreat. However, what I do not support, what I think will weaken our goals is that the CLUB should have any position, or take any stance on any political (unionist) or religious (protestant) basis. Our ‘war’ is purely in sporting/business terms as it relates to us as a football club nothing more, but nothing less.

To me winning the top league brings power back to the club, it brings revenge against our enemies and it gives us the platform to project our power. The reason we can fight back from our forced retreat is that we do have a huge fan base and it is the fan base that will allow us to project our power. Yes, we need the correct leadership to channel that power, we need to look after our resources and we need to channel our efforts into achieving our ‘victory’ but make no mistake it is our fan base that will make that happen so the club need to look after the fans and provide them with success and a leadership we deserve.

That brings me back to ‘Dignified Silence’ and the questions I posed earlier.

The goals of the club, shareholders and supporters at this point in time are aligned. The further up the tree we go the more valuable the club and to do that the club needs to deliver success, so supporters and shareholders are happy.

When should the club react, and what should the club react to? To me the club should only react to rumours, speculation and critique, whether valid or not, when it is in danger of affecting the clubs return to the top. The club should not be reacting to every blog on the internet, every false rumour, nor every lie in the press. The press would like nothing better than the club to react to every rumour and lie, it gives them more to write about and speculate about and helps them sell papers. If the club reacted to everything written then its message would be lost in the noise. Every utterance, claim and counter claim would just build up to a background of white noise where the actual message gets lost. That is not to say the club should never react, it should and it has when warranted. To me that is ‘Dignified Silence’ – only fighting the battles that need fought and won, and that is determined by your strategy and goals.

In fact this is something our support needs to learn as well. By reciting all the negative stories we often give those rumours and vitriol that is spat at us a platform that is ill deserved. To me it is far better to laugh at them or ignore them than react to them, but unfortunately we have gone from a support that had the ability to do just that to one where we have become as paranoid as those we used to laugh at for having that trait. (Can I also make the point here that if you exclude all external stimuli from your thinking and only get your information from like minded sources – it also becomes very difficult to distinguish the real stuff from the rumour. That is how cults work. So those that only read Rangers information from Rangers sources are someway down the road to becoming brainwashed)

In my opinion the club should only fight those battles that directly affect our return to the top or our long term viability. The club is not there to provide a religious or political platform, it is there to deliver shareholder value and that is achieved through sporting success. As we move back through the leagues so our power grows and our projection of power is consolidated. We should be and will be represented on SFA/SPFL top table and committees as our power grows. As our power grows, we should be looking for a seat at the top table in UEFA and looking to move and project our power beyond our borders.

Winning the top league provides us our revenge, everything else is an unneeded skirmish.

Winning the top league lets everyone know we are back in power, all the other stuff is just small shite. Me, I look forward to the day when I smell that sweetness of revenge. When Ally

delivers the SPFL Premier League trophy and the bears unite in one huge party, knowing that all around us, those that kicked at us, those that tried to see us off, that we know that in the pit of their stomachs they realise they had failed!

Kevin also said - "I’m not sure the world needs another sports bra"...as relevant as your quote

"but one does not go to war ‘Just because!’! One goes to war to achieve something" - Try fucking defending ourselves ?

Sun Tzu's Art of War -majors on "managing conflicts and winning battles" ...not on rolling over I'm afraid...

Even mr reliable Wiki has this wee quote "During the Gulf War in the 1990s, both Generals Norman Schwarzkopf Jr. and Colin Powell employed principles from Sun Tzu related to deception, speed, and striking one's enemy's weak points" Glad you quoted Sun Tzu as I have enjoyed the Art of War myself, but using it in the context of what you have said? Nah....my árse

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

I think those that are objecting to what BP9 has wrote are those that have difficultly separating supporting Rangers the football club, with defending Protestant and Unionist viewpoints.

I say that as someone who values the Union and comes from Protestant stock.

The club should not be a mouthpiece for racial, religious or political views. We can be identified with it, through the wider support base, but is not for the club to take those battles on.

Being seen as a club with a strong Protestant and Unionist history and fanbase is good and the club should develop those links to the past and also be inclusive for the future. However it is not an advocacy body for these views.

As BP9 rightly points out, we're a sporting institution and our focus should be on achieving our sporting goals. The club should only get involved in wider issues where it perceives to significantly damage the brand.

We as supporters have a duty too. Demanding the club react to each our own political viewpoints and sensitivities is a road to ruin. We need to support the club in the sporting sense and fight the political fights as a supporter group.

The vanguard bears are a great example of how this can operate.

I believe that we can and should fight our enemies on every front. I used to think in terms of 'fair play' and 'oh could never stoop that low.' Sadly that for me is all now history after the manner in which our enemies colluded to destroy (KILL) our club. In light of their vilification of our club I suggest that we need to play them at their own game. We need to do it the 'Chicago way'. (if u remember the Untouchables).

When it is required the club must be prepared to speak up and defend both the organization and the fans. We as fans must be prepared to take the fight to the enemy else we are in danger of being 'trod on' yet again.

People say we should not raise the predatory incidents known to have taken place in the bheasts organization --- I say we should highlight ever piece of dirt we can dig up about these bastards. Nothing is any longer 'out of bounds'. Dignified silence - sorry, not for me.

[Inigo 32,526]

I think those that are objecting to what BP9 has wrote are those that have difficultly separating supporting Rangers the football club, with defending Protestant and Unionist viewpoints.

I say that as someone who values the Union and comes from Protestant stock.

The club should not be a mouthpiece for racial, religious or political views. We can be identified with it, through the wider support base, but is not for the club to take those battles on.

Being seen as a club with a strong Protestant and Unionist history and fanbase is good and the club should develop those links to the past and also be inclusive for the future. However it is not an advocacy body for these views.

As BP9 rightly points out, we're a sporting institution and our focus should be on achieving our sporting goals. The club should only get involved in wider issues where it perceives to significantly damage the brand.

We as supporters have a duty too. Demanding the club react to each our own political viewpoints and sensitivities is a road to ruin. We need to support the club in the sporting sense and fight the political fights as a supporter group.

The vanguard bears are a great example of how this can operate.

I'm not. I just think the club should be doing something when various bigots imply we are Nazis or continually berate our fans in various ways or treat or treating our club differently to other clubs in similar issues. That's the problem that keeps reappearing, not some vague notion of Protestant/Unionist heritage.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

Who asked for our history to be erased?

I don't think I will avoid anything thanks. I don't really think we should have an armed forces day at Ibrox in all honesty, but it won't stop me showing my appreciation when the forces are there. Remeberence day is different obviously.

Our history - as you well know - is inextricably linked with the protestant working classes of the West coast of Scotland and beyond. These people built this club. They (and we) are a core element in the very fabric of the club. It's not exclusive to them and neither does it have to be - Rangers makes room for all.

Rangers still serve as an iconic, aspirational institution for many and our history and traditions brought us here - you don't think we should 'mix' any of that with Rangers.

As I said - too late. Rangers didn't become what they are today by accident.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Our history - as you well know - is inextricably linked with the protestant working classes of the West coast of Scotland and beyond. These people built this club. They (and we) are a core element in the very fabric of the club. It's not exclusive to them and neither does it have to be - Rangers makes room for all.

Rangers still serve as an iconic, aspirational institution for many and our history and traditions brought us here - you don't think we should 'mix' any of that with Rangers.

As I said - too late. Rangers didn't become what they are today by accident.

I agree with everything you've posted in this thread

[Bheast Skelper 411]

We are at war on many fronts in this country.

Anyone who goes to the length of typing all that weak apologist shite is obviously wetting his knickers at the thought of the fight.

The place for handwringers in our support these days is in the kitchen.

[rangersfc77 170]

Dignified silence belonged to a different era but BP has a point that we are so touchy about everything it makes it difficult to move on but after that is where i disagree with him. The cabal and mhedia has to shoulder a lot of responsibility for their encouragement of the lies that were peddled.

Simon football grounds have always had political agendas. The modern way is to pretend otherwise but it does not work. The spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Hibs, Hearts Rangers and them are the biggest obvious one of the top of my head. The support of these clubs were based on religious, social, and political views of their respective communities

[Inigo 32,526]

"Gulf War in the 1990s, both Generals Norman Schwarzkopf Jr. and Colin Powell employed principles from Sun Tzu related to deception, speed, and striking one's enemy's weak points"

Just a BTW, but how anyone can refer to the Gulf War in such ways is baffling. All of the enemy's points were weak points. The war was not losable. I wonder if Sun Tzu ever said 'he will triumph who makes sure his shit is better than their shit and his soldiers are better than their soldiers and the whole of the rest of the world (just about) is on his side'.