McCoist to blame for the penalty?

[simplythebest 11,453]

It's all very well when people talk about how the tactic 'works' but remember who we're playing. I really wish he'd try something different when it comes to us defending corners.

[bluedart1952 1,349]

Now clearly the title here is an exaggeration of my point and there is no way you can blame the manager for a player giving away a penalty or for a referee awarding a dubious decision.

That said, watching the incident again it's noticeable how many of our own players are challenging for the ball at the same time and to me it comes back to this strange tactic of having everyone back at corners where players get in each other's way and there are so many players in the box there is a good chance penalties could be conceded (if we persist with it).

On another few occasions stenny had two players free at the edge of the box and more technically proficient teams will punish us!

I just don't understand it! It puts the team under pressure and invites the opposition to overload in the box whilst denying us an outball! Even when we clear it, we struggle to retain possession or start counter attacks. What does tempelton or aird offer defending a corner?

Again the title is an exaggeration but if we persist with this tactic I guarantee it will cost us more and more against better teams!

Ally has persisted with this tactic for far too long, he really needs to look at how the top clubs around Europe deal with corners, most of them have 2 players just outside the box, and sometimes a 3rd player near the halfway line.If Ally would try this it would stop some of the above and we would stand a better chance of clearing our lines, also it would allow the opportunity to hit them on the break instead of the ball coming straight back at us.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

knew you'd pipe up.....again the title is deliberate to emphasise the exaggerations on both ends of the debate whilst discussing the tactic of everyone back for corners! But hey I'm glad you stuck to type!

... And yet where you not, in your usual lecturing way, recently having a go at the Msm and folk that over react to such and yet here you are with a sensationalist headline and a contrived anti- Ally post ? Just like the press! Sensationalist contrived nonsense

[billyking195 58]

None of these wee shitey teams should ever be in a position to get a corner against us!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Ally has persisted with this tactic for far too long, he really needs to look at how the top clubs around Europe deal with corners, most of them have 2 players just outside the box, and sometimes a 3rd player near the halfway line.If Ally would try this it would stop some of the above and we would stand a better chance of clearing our lines, also it would allow the opportunity to hit them on the break instead of the ball coming straight back at us.

Do you ever watch the EPL - plenty of the top teams pull 11 back !

[trublusince1982 768]

What's the stats scarkev for corners? How many have we conceded directly from corners? How many have we conceded indirectly from corners?

[willygers4life 1,031]

It is more likely to be picked up on when something wrong happens rather than it doesn't, every supporter should aknowledge that, would you be happy if when in the top league against better opposition we play 11 back for corners and concede a lot of the time, will everyone that backs the manager say aww it's ok it worked against lower league teams. The main point is to get the team to benefit from the tactics for the top flight, it's all ok to spend getting players to challenge top flight but the tactics should match the product on the pitch, should IMO have to nippy players outside the park to pile the pressure on for when the ball is cleared. But also conceding 3 goals at home against a team that we pumped 8-0. But also most managers probably know how ally works now and are more aware of what he will do, like for example yesterday in knew that Sheils would be on for little long before that happened, as I posted in the match thread, now if us supporters can predict that what does it say about ally and his tactics when they are so predictable

[scarkev 3,540]

... And yet where you not, in your usual lecturing way, recently having a go at the Msm and folk that over react to such and yet here you are with a sensationalist headline and a contrived anti- Ally post ? Just like the press! Sensationalist contrived nonsense

and once again you are making my point for me! I knew I could count on you! Yes the headline/title is an exaggeration but just like with the MSM (rags) many have reacted purely to the title and not the post.....so far not one person has offered an analysis of why this is an effective tactic! It may have went over the heads of some if the less educated on here but this topic is deliberately layered to try and get those who will defend ally no matter what to engage in a discussion instead if just resorting to defensive type!

[scarkev 3,540]

What's the stats scarkev for corners? How many have we conceded directly from corners? How many have we conceded indirectly from corners?

Very fair point! We haven't actually conceeded many from corners this year at all! I accept that fully however I feel better coached and technically superior teams will find ways to exploit this as a weakness. Either by altering the angle to the edge if the box or by pinning us in deep whereby deflections, mistakes, fouls etc are more likely!

[Blue corn flakes 1,282]

no sorry cant blame him for that, that is totally down to ref, though your point about two players at edge of the box is valid , we have 10 outfield players and none of them are marking players on edge of the box

I sid this a few weeks back, why do we not pick these players up? why do we leave them unmarked at the edge of the box?baffling tactics. We paid for it.

[Misteral 2,931]

Stupid thread title. Get a brain, OP.

[scarkev 3,540]

Stupid thread title. Get a brain, OP.

unfortunately you are just exposing yourself as the one without the brain if you can't see the point of the thread title in relation to the post!

[BlueBeard 241]

Do you ever watch the EPL - plenty of the top teams pull 11 back !

Man city v Chelsea 2 weeks ago, Chelsea are leading 1-0 and concede a corner in the final minute, they leave 2 men up front which

resulted in 3 Man city players back to cover them. If I am correct, Chelsea needed the 3 points to go top of the Premiership.

[In walter we trust 228]

The big Brazilian was a shocking all game and should have been subbed , one of the worst individual displays I've seen at ibrox

[Alec87 331]

I know that mate....the point of the title was to emphasise how many only read the title if something and not the points made whilst trying to get those posters who deem it a sin to criticise the manager for anything to engage in a discussion about why they feel this tactic is worthwhile! So far nobody has taken that opportunity but many have taken the bait!

Dont agree with it but as I understand it, it's about dealing with the "what is" rather than "what if". It's a set piece and perhaps the oppositions best opportunity (in their minds) to score. So we deal with that first and foremost not a "what if" the ball breaks to the edge of the box and we want to counter attack. I guess Ally's response may be, how many goals do we concede from corners ? Can't think of that many.

[scarkev 3,540]

Dont agree with it but as I understand it, it's about dealing with the "what is" rather than "what if". It's a set piece and perhaps the oppositions best opportunity (in their minds) to score. So we deal with that first and foremost not a "what if" the ball breaks to the edge of the box and we want to counter attack. I guess Ally's response may be, how many goals do we concede from corners ? Can't think of that many.

Finally someone has offered a reasoned analysis.....fair play mate and I agree with both the logic and statistics of how few goals we have conceeded.....the concern remains however, against better teams with more technical and tactical nous will this become an exploitable weakness?

[ayro 2,977]

I will have a go at answering the question by the OP.

If everyone is back at a set piece and mark zonal, with the amount of players involved it makes it more difficult for an attacking player to get a free run, hoping you don't get a clear header.

I don't like it as a tactic either and would prefer to use the opposition set piece as a chance to counter.

Unfortunately when you have days like yesterday it stands out more so as with the height in our team and everyone back, why did we look vulnerable at set pieces / crosses?

[FernandoR20 2,133]

This place is a fucking riot.

[scarkev 3,540]

I will have a go at answering the question by the OP.

If everyone is back at a set piece and mark zonal, with the amount of players involved it makes it more difficult for an attacking player to get a free run, hoping you don't get a clear header.

I don't like it as a tactic either and would prefer to use the opposition set piece as a chance to counter.

Unfortunately when you have days like yesterday it stands out more so as with the height in our team and everyone back, why did we look vulnerable at set pieces / crosses?

Yip a fair percieved benefit of using this tactic and ultimately as others have said....for the most part it has worked.

The problem is though by having so many men back it just takes one deflection, one mistake or one player passing on responsibility to result in a goal. It also restricts your keeper and as we move up in level the opposition will be smarter and could exploit this much easier as the space at the edge if the box is just asking for someone to punish us!

[scarkev 3,540]

This place is a fucking riot.

another sheep.....the title sucks them in but they have very little to say!

[ianb1547 3,767]

As I say it is a deliberately misleading and exaggerated title to hopefully stimulate a discussion on the tactic of bringing everyone back to defend set pieces which I believe will cost us more and more against better teams....I'd love to hear from someone who thinks its a good idea and why?

It's a good idea because we have only conceded 1 goal from a corner all season...and that was a wonder-strike. And yesterday was the first penalty awarded as the result of a corner.

I will guarantee that if you compare to any team who leave players up the park they will have lost more goals from corners than us.

Good tactic - however people complain.

[Blumhoilann 6,712]

Scarkev is correct,this 'all hands to the pumps' defending at corners is crazy.

Not only does it leave us open to attack at the edge of the box but it means we are always giving the ball straight back to the opposition.

We should always have 2 near the halfway line,1 central,1 wide,this enables fast counter-attacking and pace is something we, as a team are not playing with atm.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

One of these days people are actually going to realise that we very rarely concede anything from corners.

[scarkev 3,540]

One of these days people are actually going to realise that we very rarely concede anything from corners.

Very true. However we don't concede many goals in general....does that mean our defence is solid? I think this is something that better teams can and will exploit if we continue to use it as we move up the divisions!

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Very true. However we don't concede many goals in general....does that mean our defence is solid? I think this is something that better teams can and will exploit if we continue to use it as we move up the divisions!

It's solid enough for this level, yes.