McCoist to blame for the penalty?

[stuvah 146]

Noticed a couple of times when we got it right our guys were running at a defense that was very much on the back foot, also noticed the opposition being allowed to break these attacks up with increasingly cynical tackles.

yeah every now and again the ball will break and temps aird etc will set off up the pitch, but if we already had temps and shiels up near the halfway line you can ping the ball out and your break has started 20-30 yards higher up the park, you can then use pace to get in behind or you can hold it up and wait for support.

unfortunately especially at this level your going to get those cynical fouls and that is up to the ref to deal with, although we haven't had much protection from them either this season or last.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

Do you ever watch the EPL - plenty of the top teams pull 11 back !

As valid arguments go, that's about as invalid as they get.

The EPL is littered with top-of-the-range talent from throughout the world of football - all the teams in that league have international stars from somewhere or other and if some managers decide to bring all 11 players back to cover a corner then given the strengths of the opposition some would argue they were right to do so.....but to use that argument to defend McCoist's tactics against plumbers, joiners and fucking windae' dressers is beyond parody.

It was Stenhouse-fucking-muir we were playing not Real Ma-fucking-drid!!

McCoist has learned not one thing in his two-and-a-half years as Rangers manager, tactics-wise or otherwise.

Legend on the pitch, liability off it. With him still at the helm we will not progress in football terms.

We certainly deserve better.

[flany-kpl 7]

No. The answer is yes though, to the question of, is this the most stupid thread you've read in a while?

[quinty 1,445]

As valid arguments go, that's about as invalid as they get.

The EPL is littered with top-of-the-range talent from throughout the world of football - all the teams in that league have international stars from somewhere or other and if some managers decide to bring all 11 players back to cover a corner then given the strengths of the opposition some would argue they were right to do so.....but to use that argument to defend McCoist's tactics against plumbers, joiners and fucking windae' dressers is beyond parody.

It was Stenhouse-fucking-muir we were playing not Real Ma-fucking-drid!!

McCoist has learned not one thing in his two-and-a-half years as Rangers manager, tactics-wise or otherwise.

Legend on the pitch, liability off it. With him still at the helm we will not progress in football terms.

We certainly deserve better.

Is that the Royal we? You might think you deserve better and you're perfectly entitled to say so, but you don't speak for anyfucking body else. And, sick of saying this, but if you don't like it, you can always fuck off.

[The Godfather 71,865]

Is that the Royal we? You might think you deserve better and you're perfectly entitled to say so, but you don't speak for anyfucking body else. And, sick of saying this, but if you don't like it, you can always fuck off.

I think he's spot on.

Certainly speaks for me

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

Is that the Royal we? You might think you deserve better and you're perfectly entitled to say so, but you don't speak for anyfucking body else. And, sick of saying this, but if you don't like it, you can always fuck off.

It's the Royal 'we' - this forum is all about opinions - I just gave mine - and if you don't like it why don't you take your own advice.

EDIT (PS) Did you actually read what Bp9 said in the thread I was replying to?

Butchers, bakers and candle-fucking-stick makers are our opposition, not international-fucking-super stars.

[quinty 1,445]

It's the Royal 'we' - this forum is all about opinions - I just gave mine - and if you don't like it why don't you take your own advice.

Na na na na na

I said it first

[quinty 1,445]

I think he's spot on.

Certainly speaks for me

Well if his cocks in your mouth, you would need someone to speak for you

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

Na na na na na

I said it first

Good debating tactic.

[quinty 1,445]

Good debating tactic.

I was replying to your pre-edit reply, therefore it was in the same vein, childish.

Having now read the edited version;

Gonnae just fuck off

[The Godfather 71,865]

Well if his cocks in your mouth, you would need someone to speak for you

I see you are living up to the forum clown title.

I'm sure you will be 'set right' soon though.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

I was replying to your pre-edit reply, therefore it was in the same vein, childish.

Having now read the edited version;

Gonnae just fuck off

Naw!

Na-na-na-na....etc.

[The Godfather 71,865]

Naw!

Na-na-na-na....etc.

I'm sure as a former mod you could let the others know about a certain abusive troll.....

[flany-kpl 7]

As valid arguments go, that's about as invalid as they get.

The EPL is littered with top-of-the-range talent from throughout the world of football - all the teams in that league have international stars from somewhere or other and if some managers decide to bring all 11 players back to cover a corner then given the strengths of the opposition some would argue they were right to do so.....but to use that argument to defend McCoist's tactics against plumbers, joiners and fucking windae' dressers is beyond parody.

It was Stenhouse-fucking-muir we were playing not Real Ma-fucking-drid!!

McCoist has learned not one thing in his two-and-a-half years as Rangers manager, tactics-wise or otherwise.

Legend on the pitch, liability off it. With him still at the helm we will not progress in football terms.

We certainly deserve better.

Or you could look at it another way.

Teams of a lesser quality opposition will a lot of the time see set pieces, especially corners, as their best opportunity to score against us, the same as we've done in the past against higher class opposition. We should be comfortably beating these lower class teams in open play with crisper passing, better touches, more creativity etc but at set pieces, and especially corners, it doesn't matter if you're a plumber or Zlatan when you're in the box, if you get a break then there's a good chance you'll score

The fact that most top level teams these days pull all their players back to defend at corners isn't because they're playing against better quality strikers, it's because they feel that they are dangerous situations no matter the opposition and that a potential break for themselves isn't worth losing a goal, so flood the box and increase their chances of clearing the ball first time.

To suggest the fact that just about every team these days seems to do it is invalid, is ridiculous in my opinion and we do deserve better, but it's when the ball is in open play and not at the point when we are most vulnerable to weaker opposition.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

I see you are living up to the forum clown title.

I'm sure you will be 'set right' soon though.

Is he Genital Cartman Lee in disguise?

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

Or you could look at it another way.

Teams of a lesser quality opposition will a lot of the time see set pieces, especially corners, as their best opportunity to score against us, the same as we've done in the past against higher class opposition. We should be comfortably beating these lower class teams in open play with crisper passing, better touches, more creativity etc but at set pieces, and especially corners, it doesn't matter if you're a plumber or Zlatan when you're in the box, if you get a break then there's a good chance you'll score

The fact that most top level teams these days pull all their players back to defend at corners isn't because they're playing against better quality strikers, it's because they feel that they are dangerous situations no matter the opposition and that a potential break for themselves isn't worth losing a goal, so flood the box and increase their chances of clearing the ball first time.

To suggest the fact that just about every team these days seems to do it is invalid, is ridiculous in my opinion and we do deserve better, but it's when the ball is in open play and not at the point when we are most vulnerable to weaker opposition.

You and I see football in a different light. I see it as a simple game where a defender defends, an attacker attacks and a midfielder does a bit of both. When we've got guys as short as Templeton or Aird back defending corners and no out ball whatsoever then even when we do clear a corner it is always going to come straight back at us. It's not really about the quality of the opposition I have a problem with (although we should be streets ahead of them) it's that our manager uses the same tactic game after game. Can you imagine an opposition team manager pre-game telling his players that if they hang about at the edge of the Rangers box at a corner there's a 95% chance they'll get a chance of a dig at the goal because we've got no-one outside the box to cause them any grief in such circumstances.

Bp9's EPL argument notwithstanding, at this level of football it's a management decision that screams 'fear'.

[flany-kpl 7]

You and I see football in a different light. I see it as a simple game where a defender defends, an attacker attacks and a midfielder does a bit of both. When we've got guys as short as Templeton or Aird back defending corners and no out ball whatsoever then even when we do clear a corner it is always going to come straight back at us. It's not really about the quality of the opposition I have a problem with (although we should be streets ahead of them) it's that our manager uses the same tactic game after game. Can you imagine an opposition team manager pre-game telling his players that if they hang about at the edge of the Rangers box at a corner there's a 95% chance they'll get a chance of a dig at the goal because we've got no-one outside the box to cause them any grief in such circumstances.

Bp9's EPL argument notwithstanding, at this level of football it's a management decision that screams 'fear'.

You quote percentages but do you not think these clubs, especially the ones down south, have worked out what these are? We do see football differently then because at a corner it's not always the tallest player who clears the ball, Templeton has as much chance of having the ball falling at his feet than McCulloch has of it landing on his head.

If Aird was left outside the box then it's not guaranteed that the clearance will go to him anyway which would leave us facing a second ball in anyway.

I agree that we should be comfortably beating these teams but I stand by that at corners we are at our most vulnerable as there's as much chance of the ball falling to a plumber as a full time striker.

[Leeds_Bear 8,106]

It wasn't a penalty - so no. Poor refereeing is to blame.

[The Dude 20,026]

You quote percentages but do you not think these clubs, especially the ones down south, have worked out what these are? We do see football differently then because at a corner it's not always the tallest player who clears the ball, Templeton has as much chance of having the ball falling at his feet than McCulloch has of it landing on his head.

If Aird was left outside the box then it's not guaranteed that the clearance will go to him anyway which would leave us facing a second ball in anyway.

I agree that we should be comfortably beating these teams but I stand by that at corners we are at our most vulnerable as there's as much chance of the ball falling to a plumber as a full time striker.

The average conversion in the epl is around 3%. It doesn't seem to vary much despite some teams having much better players than others.

[quinty 1,445]

It seems to me that the alternative is to adopt the zonal marking system used effectively by Barca in recent years and completely fucked up by Celtic in recent years. Then there is the debate on whether to have a player on the front post, back post, both? whether to have a player ready to cover the short corner option? The biggest problem, is of course, that you only have 11 players. If you adopt a zonal defence and fuck it up, then you are slaughtered for not man-marking, if a ball goes in at either post you are slaughtered for not having a man on the post. If they take a short corner you are slaughtered etc......

You could of course change your tactics for defending corners depending on the team you are playing, suspensions, injuries, time of year etc etc but you run the risk of getting slaughtered for not having a set system and wasting valuable training time on learning how to defend corners.

You could take the 'moneyball' approach and work out that less than 4% of goals are scored from corners and just not defend them.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy for anyone with an axe to grind to slag off a particular tactic. The person doing the slagging has generally never kicked a ball in anger, or has any coaching qualification.

When using this approach, you must always claim that you 'deserve better' because it is just unacceptable for your team to lose a goal, tackle or god forbid a game.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

You quote percentages but do you not think these clubs, especially the ones down south, have worked out what these are? We do see football differently then because at a corner it's not always the tallest player who clears the ball, Templeton has as much chance of having the ball falling at his feet than McCulloch has of it landing on his head.

If Aird was left outside the box then it's not guaranteed that the clearance will go to him anyway which would leave us facing a second ball in anyway.

I agree that we should be comfortably beating these teams but I stand by that at corners we are at our most vulnerable as there's as much chance of the ball falling to a plumber as a full time striker.

Whether Aird or someone else wins the out ball when it's cleared wasn't my main thrust, it's that at present (under McCoist) we have NO out-ball option. You stick a guy on the halfway line whilst defending a corner (usually someone with pace) the opposition need to cover him and he's at least in a position to challenge for the ball when it is cleared. Stenhousemuir on Saturday (as have other teams we've played this season) will stick at least one man up front (some have left two up front) which we than have to cover. Everyone back in our box is a frustrating tactic and hardly ever results in anything other than the ball coming whizzing back in again and we're under further pressure.

Plumber or full-time player, give a guy lots of time on the ball and eventually he can and will do damage against us.

[flany-kpl 7]

Whether Aird or someone else wins the out ball when it's cleared wasn't my main thrust, it's that at present (under McCoist) we have NO out-ball option. You stick a guy on the halfway line whilst defending a corner (usually someone with pace) the opposition need to cover him and he's at least in a position to challenge for the ball when it is cleared. Stenhousemuir on Saturday (as have other teams we've played this season) will stick at least one man up front (some have left two up front) which we than have to cover. Everyone back in our box is a frustrating tactic and hardly ever results in anything other than the ball coming whizzing back in again and we're under further pressure.

Plumber or full-time player, give a guy lots of time on the ball and eventually he can and will do damage against us.

My point exactly. Our number one priority at corners is not to concede, having everyone back at corners helps this.

I see where you're coming from but managers all over the world seem to have come to the conclusion that this is what's better for their team so I'm not going to criticise Ally for going along with this.

Each to their own.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

My point exactly. Our number one priority at corners is not to concede, having everyone back at corners helps this.

I see where you're coming from but managers all over the world seem to have come to the conclusion that this is what's better for their team so I'm not going to criticise Ally for going along with this.

Each to their own.

We'll agree to disagree. It's a tactic that would get fitba' stopped.

[The Dude 20,026]

We'll agree to disagree. It's a tactic that would get fitba' stopped.

Well we might need to start looking for something new to do shortly.

[scarkev 3,540]

Now clearly the title here is an exaggeration of my point and there is no way you can blame the manager for a player giving away a penalty or for a referee awarding a dubious decision.

That said, watching the incident again it's noticeable how many of our own players are challenging for the ball at the same time and to me it comes back to this strange tactic of having everyone back at corners where players get in each other's way and there are so many players in the box there is a good chance penalties could be conceded (if we persist with it).

On another few occasions stenny had two players free at the edge of the box and more technically proficient teams will punish us!

I just don't understand it! It puts the team under pressure and invites the opposition to overload in the box whilst denying us an outball! Even when we clear it, we struggle to retain possession or start counter attacks. What does tempelton or aird offer defending a corner?

Again the title is an exaggeration but if we persist with this tactic I guarantee it will cost us more and more against better teams!

And again! When will he fucking learn!