''Jobs For The Boys''

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Management and strategy is always very easy when your not responsible for it. Of course I want a sustainable model but something you fail to grasp is the level of investment to even get to an Ajax level. Ajax did not have to start at the bottom and rebuild a top level squad - not even close.

Still we at fans - so easy from the sidelines

Its not easy but certainly not impossible as you seem to suggest. No comeback on the 'rejects' I notice. Maybe some have a little deeper understanding than you appear to have and know how other clubs manage to dp things from the bottom up. Swansea are a good example of what can be achieved.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Its not easy but certainly not impossible as you seem to suggest. No comeback on the 'rejects' I notice. Maybe some have a little deeper understanding than you appear to have and know how other clubs manage to dp things from the bottom up. Swansea are a good example of what can be achieved.

Again Swansea invested very heavily to get ehere they are - as for the rejects - no thanks, how do rejects fit into your model of develop to sell - if they are leaving Rangers they should be going to a top team - if they are EPL rejects they have no resale value and are no use to us. Your not very bright are you? Still it's easy from the sidelines.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,749]

Again Swansea invested very heavily to get ehere they are - as for the rejects - no thanks, how do rejects fit into your model of develop to sell - if they are leaving Rangers they should be going to a top team - if they are EPL rejects they have no resale value and are no use to us. Your not very bright are you? Still it's easy from the sidelines.

You mean players like Steven Davis? You know our last captain before McCulloch, an "EPL reject" who the majority of people on here and among our support talked about as a player who could be sold to England for a profit due to a combination of his age, ability and performances for us over a near four year period.

A player can easily fail somewhere, go elsewhere and rebuild their reputation/confidence, and go back and prove themselves as capable further down the line.

[rfcfraserrfc 262]

This thread is quite simply embarrassing.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

This thread is quite simply embarrassing.

Says the guy that started a super Ally thread listing all the teams in Scotland he's beat

[simplythebest 11,453]

This thread is quite simply embarrassing.

Really? Looks like fair discussion to me

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Again Swansea invested very heavily to get ehere they are - as for the rejects - no thanks, how do rejects fit into your model of develop to sell - if they are leaving Rangers they should be going to a top team - if they are EPL rejects they have no resale value and are no use to us. Your not very bright are you? Still it's easy from the sidelines.

So Swansea invested heavily from the bottom tier of English football? Did they have a facility like Auchenhowie? Did they have crowds like ours in the bottom tier? Have you any figures to hand to support your assertion or are you just making it up? I've given examples of players who have enhanced their reputations. In what way do those 'rejects' fit your, increasingly bizarre, arguments? I could easily find more who were 'rejects' from EPL clubs but have flourished elsewhere.

Do you know the value of Shawcross, Brady and Drinkwater? You seem to be suggesting that Rangers are incapable of increasing the sell on value of a player or do you mean the current coaching set up is?

You really need to give some figures and examples to back up what you are saying so I await your figures on the 'heavy investment figures for Swansea (in the bottom tier) and explain why Rangers (with a pre existing facility) couldn't increase the value of a player, like other clubs seem to be able to? If you can't then I'll assume its you thats 'not very bright'.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

You mean players like Steven Davis? You know our last captain before McCulloch, an "EPL reject" who the majority of people on here and among our support talked about as a player who could be sold to England for a profit due to a combination of his age, ability and performances for us over a near four year period.

A player can easily fail somewhere, go elsewhere and rebuild their reputation/confidence, and go back and prove themselves as capable further down the line.

So one exception - or is it? What profit did we make on the deal - he cost us £3m we sold him for £800k - even if we had not been in trouble do you think we could have made a profit on the £3 m ? How does that help the sustainability model?

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,749]

So one exception - or is it? What profit did we make on the deal - he cost us £3m we sold him for £800k - even if we had not been in trouble do you think we could have made a profit on the £3 m ? How does that help the sustainability model?

Oh come on, everybody knows circumstances dictated the fee, or lack of, that we got for Davis.

Are you trying to argue that in normal circumstances and in a normal market a 26 year old player with the ability he has, the list of honours he won with us, the length of contract he had and the experience he gained over that time wouldn't have been worth more than the 3 million we paid for him in 2008 because if you are I think you are it.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Oh come on, everybody knows circumstances dictated the fee, or lack of, that we got for Davis.

Are you trying to argue that in normal circumstances and in a normal market a 26 year old player with the ability he has, the list of honours he won with us, the length of contract he had and the experience he gained over that time wouldn't have been worth more than the 3 million we paid for him in 2008 because if you are I think you are it.

I dont think Davis would have/could have been sold on at a profit to the £3M is cost us to buy him, and I liked him as a player! We will never know tho' but picking up players like him may increase the current squad quality BUT is hardly a dream model for a sustainable future.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,749]

I dont think Davis would have/could have been sold on at a profit to the £3M is cost us to buy him, and I liked him as a player! We will never know tho' but picking up players like him may increase the current squad quality BUT is hardly a dream model for a sustainable future.

No model is a dream model but as a club I don't know how anybody can argue that we simply have to looking to buy younger, hungrier players who are going to serve us well and have a better chance at earning us money down the line as a result.

It's the model adopted by near enough every club who fall into that tier below the elite clubs across Europe now and long term that's where we fit in too. Even Liverpool, a traditional English & European powerhouse have an unofficial U-25 signing policy now and that is working wonders for them.

I have absolutely no problems with a cash injection from King, but that money needs to be spent on improving the infrastructure of the club and used to sign talented players at a good age who we can develop further and then sell.

Unless there is an exceptional circumstance then the days of signing over the hill 30+ year olds like Beattie or pricey 27-30 year olds in their pomp like Mendes have to be a thing of the past for the long term good of the club.

[Ryan_1 1,136]

Davis has proved this season he's at least a £5 million+ player.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

No model is a dream model but as a club I don't know how anybody can argue that we simply have to looking to buy younger, hungrier players who are going to serve us well and have a better chance at earning us money down the line as a result.

It's the model adopted by near enough every club who fall into that tier below the elite clubs across Europe now and long term that's where we fit in too. Even Liverpool, a traditional English & European powerhouse have an unofficial U-25 signing policy now and that is working wonders for them.

I have absolutely no problems with a cash injection from King, but that money needs to be spent on improving the infrastructure of the club and used to sign talented players at a good age who we can develop further and then sell.

Unless there is an exceptional circumstance then the days of signing over the hill 30+ year olds like Beattie or pricey 27-30 year olds in their pomp like Mendes have to be a thing of the past for the long term good of the club.

We agree on this - what we don't agree on is the speed / steps to get there - all I have suggested is that we need to invest quite heavy now as 'your' strategy means that the team takes a few years to develop - we all agree we need to break even but at what point - I see nothing wrong with investing quite heaviliy in the squad now (if we get an equity injection) as we need to be back on the European platform asap - what I dont think we can do is wait 5 years (timing is guess work) to get back there.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Some EPL 'rejects' go on to have pretty succesful careers. Guiseppe Rossi is one that instantly springs to mind. In the short to medium term we need to look for sustainability and to make more from our transfer dealings than we spend. You seem to be living in a parallel universe if you think that we can achieve greatness without a sustainable plan. There are a number of 'rejects' from the top clubs who ply their trades successfully in the EPL and Championship (Ryan Shawcross, Robby Brady, Danny Drinkwater amongst others) are you saying players like that wouldn't be worth considering?

I'm guessing you live in a very small football bubble and know little of the players that you class as 'rejects'? Ajax have had that model in place for many many years and, as we have a world class training facility, a portion of the cost is removed. Putting a football philosophy in place is not that expensive it just needs implementing after taking the best of other clubs methods.

You don't seem keen on using younger players to take the club forward, are you Kris Boyd or Kenny Millers agent?

I am all for using younger player to take us forward - just not someone elses rejects - I am still amitious for Rangers, I do not accept that we are also rans - but we need to get back to European football as quick as possible. It is one thing to develop players to sell on it is something else completely to take someone going backwards in their career and try to then sell them on. Yes some of the rejects can 'do a job' but thats it - if they are used to help get us back fine, but a player being sold by us should be stepping up not sideways / down. BUT first step is to get back to the top - if Boyd, or a 'reject' helps in that great but developing players should not be to the detriment of the fastest journey time back to the top.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

For once just once i wish we would give jobs for the girls instead, just to spice things up a bit

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,749]

We agree on this - what we don't agree on is the speed / steps to get there - all I have suggested is that we need to invest quite heavy now as 'your' strategy means that the team takes a few years to develop - we all agree we need to break even but at what point - I see nothing wrong with investing quite heaviliy in the squad now (if we get an equity injection) as we need to be back on the European platform asap - what I dont think we can do is wait 5 years (timing is guess work) to get back there.

I don't think the team takes years to get back to Europe at all, even if our investment is somewhat limited. I actually think the panic/fear of the SPL is one of the biggest head scratchers on here tbh.

Aberdeen & Motherwell have thrown together squads and teams of free transfers/loans (10 & 9 new players each this season) and they are battling for second spot. To me that suggests that we could and should be back in Europe at the end of our first season we get back in the SPL because for all the duds we have I still think we are only a couple of good free transfers away from being as strong as they are.

My plan would be get back in the Europa League as quickly and as cheaply as possible through the SPL while investing in improving the scouting/youth infrastructure (IMO in two years time we will be back in Europe) then from then you invest some of the "bigger" money and make a real push at the SPL & The Champions League.

Logic suggests that the standard of player you could attract after two years of good, long term scouting work and the European football carrot to dangle in front of them would be significantly higher than it will be if we go out and spend millions on players (who will probably have been recommended by agents considering we have no scouting network to speak of) when we are in either the championship or just back in the SPL but still with no Europe to offer either.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I don't think the team takes years to get back to Europe at all, even if our investment is somewhat limited. I actually think the panic/fear of the SPL is one of the biggest head scratchers on here tbh.

Aberdeen & Motherwell have thrown together squads and teams of free transfers/loans (10 & 9 new players each this season) and they are battling for second spot. To me that suggests that we could and should be back in Europe at the end of our first season we get back in the SPL because for all the duds we have I still think we are only a couple of good free transfers away from being as strong as they are.

My plan would be get back in the Europa League as quickly and as cheaply as possible through the SPL while investing in improving the scouting/youth infrastructure (IMO in two years time we will be back in Europe) then from then you invest some of the "bigger" money and make a real push at the SPL & The Champions League.

Logic suggests that the standard of player you could attract after two years of good, long term scouting work and the European football carrot to dangle in front of them would be significantly higher than it will be if we go out and spend millions on players (who will probably have been recommended by agents considering we have no scouting network to speak of) when we are in either the championship or just back in the SPL but still with no Europe to offer either.

I am on the phone - thumb typing but want a longer reply - but our pre administration squad ( which was good not great) cost £27.5m To assemble - the sheep and well may be challenging for 2nd but do shite in Europe so my ambition is greater than that. I don't think the Europa run generates that much cah, we will be selling of any prospects to survive - so I would like invesent in to help us win the league quicker and get CL cash. ( longer reply may follow if I get to a PC)

[The Godfather 71,714]

Throwing countless millions from the get go chasing the CL will end in tears.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,749]

I am on the phone - thumb typing but want a longer reply - but our pre administration squad ( which was good not great) cost £27.5m To assemble - the sheep and well may be challenging for 2nd but do shite in Europe so my ambition is greater than that. I don't think the Europa run generates that much cah, we will be selling of any prospects to survive - so I would like invesent in to help us win the league quicker and get CL cash. ( longer reply may follow if I get to a PC)

I had to wait to get to a PC before replying to this. Long replies from a mobile are a nightmare.

My ambition is greater than anything that aberdeen or motherwell do too, and them doing pish in europe is by the by because they won't/don't have a scouting system that they have invested significant money on, they don't have a shareholder waiting to invest upwards of 30 million pounds in the club and they aren't anywhere near as attractive a club to potential signings as we are.

There is no money in the Europa League, but as The Godfather said throwing millions at chasing the Champions League, especially from the position that we will be in either this Summer and even next Summer would be utter madness.

It doesn't need to need to be a five year journey either. I honestly believe we could go something like

2014/15 - win championship, earn promotion to the SPL, while picking up a couple of younger talented players i.e Hutchinson & McLean to beef out the squad/team and focus on investing money in a scouting network.

2015/16 - consolodate in the SPL (IMO finishing second is a given as soon as we are back there. if an Aberdeen team carried by a 35 year olds Russell Anderson, Barry Robson & Willo Flood can finish second in the SPL then we easily can too even if it is immediately after a promotion) while hopefully adding another couple of younger players who can be in the team for four/five years and still be at an age where they can be sold on and if needed one or two veterans if required.

2016/17 - Qualified for the Europa League due to finishing second in 14/15, a squad that's been slowly and sensibly added to and built over a two year period, a scouting network with two years worth of profiles on players on record which allows us to carefully pick ouyr targets and a surplus of money ready to be invested on players capable of competing at the level required (league title push and champions league qualification)

I don't actually think we are a million miles away in terms of opinions and what we want to see, we just want to see it done in different ways.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I had to wait to get to a PC before replying to this. Long replies from a mobile are a nightmare.

My ambition is greater than anything that aberdeen or motherwell do too, and them doing pish in europe is by the by because they won't/don't have a scouting system that they have invested significant money on, they don't have a shareholder waiting to invest upwards of 30 million pounds in the club and they aren't anywhere near as attractive a club to potential signings as we are.

There is no money in the Europa League, but as The Godfather said throwing millions at chasing the Champions League, especially from the position that we will be in either this Summer and even next Summer would be utter madness.

It doesn't need to need to be a five year journey either. I honestly believe we could go something like

2014/15 - win championship, earn promotion to the SPL, while picking up a couple of younger talented players i.e Hutchinson & McLean to beef out the squad/team and focus on investing money in a scouting network.

2015/16 - consolodate in the SPL (IMO finishing second is a given as soon as we are back there. if an Aberdeen team carried by a 35 year olds Russell Anderson, Barry Robson & Willo Flood can finish second in the SPL then we easily can too even if it is immediately after a promotion) while hopefully adding another couple of younger players who can be in the team for four/five years and still be at an age where they can be sold on and if needed one or two veterans if required.

2016/17 - Qualified for the Europa League due to finishing second in 14/15, a squad that's been slowly and sensibly added to and built over a two year period, a scouting network with two years worth of profiles on players on record which allows us to carefully pick ouyr targets and a surplus of money ready to be invested on players capable of competing at the level required (league title push and champions league qualification)

I don't actually think we are a million miles away in terms of opinions and what we want to see, we just want to see it done in different ways.

Ok it's a plan.

The trouble is I just don't see the quality coming through that quick and feel we will need one or two 'quality' buys to supplement what you say - the likes of jelavic cost 4m Naismith 2m and I think we need a few players of that quality ( and associated wages) to win the top league.