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brazz1972
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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

Spot on, we have become a nation of pussies.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

I'd agree with that. I was called a h** by some wee mhank in school in PE, I retaliated by calling him a Fenian but even in schools, non-denominational mind, there was a disparity in the treatment of the two words. The wee rattler who shouted it at me was told to stop winding me up and I was suspended for sectarianism. This was only 6 years ago.

Hasn't changed my outlook on the situation at all. I don't find either word particular offensive, but it irks me when I'm not afforded the same leniency when expressing the term that they are. There's a huge difference in how the words are perceived, despite the fact that , allegedly, they're roughly the same.

I don't see a problem with anyone using either word, they're words designed to wind someone up, that's it. I've used it to describe some of the disgusting tramps that glorify the Iranaway but it's never been used in a religious context in the slightest.

I've always considered sectarianism in Scotland, in football context, to be an absolute myth. It's not an issue to do with religion, it's two groups of fans who dislike each other and will attempt to get at the other lot. Sure, some of the stuff can be a bit close to the bone, but it's words, people need to stop being such fannies and accept that people just don't get along.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

Yes..but we are well past that now.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

h** is a racist term, fenian is not nor is it sectarian. It is a political term, indeed the fenian brotherhood wanted to end British rule in Ireland, if memory serves, this was backed by American support. The h** were a barbaric race who helped bring and end to the roman empire, Ruled by attila.

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Good statement actually fair play to the RST for that.

the difference between the two words is THEY happily refer to themselves as fenians i don't know a single Bear who calls himself an "H" word it is offensive and sectarian and needs stamped out and the Swedish prick should be jailed.

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h** is a racist term, fenian is not nor is it sectarian. It is a political term, indeed the fenian brotherhood wanted to end British rule in Ireland, if memory serves, this was backed by American support. The h** were a barbaric race who helped bring and end to the roman empire, Ruled by attila.

h** is not racist either.

there is no such race alive today to be offended by the words use and to be associated with a conqueror of nations is not racist.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

Spot on, faux offendness from both sides but I back the RSTs calls for a level playing field.

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Spot on, faux offendness from both sides but I back the RSTs calls for a level playing field.

it's tit for tat that's not required in this instance though - the statement was released after the SFA said they were pulling him up for it.

If the SFA hadn't said that then yes, a statement was required but not with a false truth that h** is sectarian. They should be inundating the SFA with proof that fenian is not sectarian instead and ask for their reasoning as to why they deem that it is.

mudslinging won't solve the issue, we need facts from the authorities if we are to tackle the mis-truth of sectarian terms.

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h** is not racist either.

there is no such race alive today to be offended by the words use and to be associated with a conqueror of nations is not racist.

Indeed you are correct, just as there is no such race and Anglo Saxon, or Celt however these terms are used to describe historical races and the accepted use of the term h** is to describe a barbaric race of people.

I don't know any Rangers fan that is offended by this term nor do I know any Celtic fans that are offended by the term fenian. To me it is political parties not understanding a damn thing about our clubs and because of this they have blanket banned a wide range of things without properly looking at the problem.

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it's tit for tat that's not required in this instance though - the statement was released after the SFA said they were pulling him up for it.

If the SFA hadn't said that then yes, a statement was required but not with a false truth that h** is sectarian. They should be inundating the SFA with proof that fenian is not sectarian instead and ask for their reasoning as to why they deem that it is.

mudslinging won't solve the issue, we need facts from the authorities if we are to tackle the mis-truth of sectarian terms.

The issue is completely irrelevant to most of us and seems to only exist to those who like to be offended.

This issue sees young men serving porridge for singing songs. It is completely ridiculous.

The celtic side have pretty much managed to get the word 'Fenian' tagged as a sectarian slur. I think some fans see this as an opportunity to do the same with the term 'h**'

As mad as it seems the only way this will be resolved is if Celtic and Rangers come together with the authorites and come up with a definitive list of terms and songs that are unacceptable.

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I would be ok with h** if I could use fenian. In my book that absolutely makes it tit for tat from my perspective. I understand that we have to make some form of stand somewhere but we wont be able to look at people strangely soon. Both sets of fans should combine to get the antisocial behaviour scotland act to fuck ASAP.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

We have tried not to sink to their level and it's got us in an even worse mess, where we now have a society so blatently biased and unfair, that half the Celtic fans themselves, nevermind the rest of the country, have actually bought into and believe the absolutley scandalous rhetoric peddled by high profile Celtic fans and groups that the word h** isn't the same as the word Fenian. It's about equal treatment, and if our fans are getting jailed for singing a song, their shouldn't be getting away freely for the very same offfense.

Glad that statement mentioned the walls in Belfast which shite all over their rhetoric that 'h**' means rangers fans, and not Protestants.

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Is Chris Graham still involved with RST? It's fair enough to comment/condemn whatever but anything anti secterian etc is going to be hollow from RST while he is involved with them. And this is not a dig at Chris Graham it's just right now he's toxic and will be used to dismantle anything coming from the RST.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

I disagree.

I would say neither are sectarian.

Fenian is political, the deifnition of the word & it's roots are clear, it's intertwined with Irish Republicanism. Fenianism is Irish Republicanism by means of arms/violence. It is mis-used in a sectarian context certainly, I'v heard it to used to describe anyone of catholic faith. But if you call a German a Nazi-bastard because you don't like Germans, or a Muslim an Jihadi-bastard because you don't like Muslims, then you are using the words in a racist or sectarian context. The terms Nazi & Jihadi themselves are not racist nor sectarian, they're political beliefs/movements. So is 'Fenian', it really isn't much different from 'Nazi'.

h** however is racist, the term isn't derived from any kind of political movement or set of beliefs, it's a word derived from one's ethnicity. It's why Celtic fans call Hearts fans "diet H***", or Kilmarnock fans "H***". When have you ever heard of them refer to Dundee Utd or Hibs fans "H***" despite having their run-ins with them? It's because it's a form of anglophobic racism.

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I disagree.

I would say neither are sectarian.

Fenian is political, the deifnition of the word & it's roots are clear, it's intertwined with Irish Republicanism. Fenianism is Irish Republicanism by means of arms/violence. It is mis-used in a sectarian context certainly, I'v heard it to used to describe anyone of catholic faith. But if you call a German a Nazi-bastard because you don't like Germans, or a Muslim an Jihadi-bastard because you don't like Muslims, then you are using the words in a racist or sectarian context. The terms Nazi & Jihadi themselves are not racist nor sectarian, their political beliefs/movements.

h** however is racist, the term isn't derived from any kind of political movement or set of beliefs, it's a word derived from one's ethnicity. It's why Celtic fans call Hearts fans "diet H***", or Kilmarnock fans "H***". When have you ever heard of them refer to Dundee Utd or Hibs fans "H***" despite having their run-ins with them? It's because it's a form of anglophobic racism.

People will always have differing opinions. For me neither word is sectarian or racist, and when it's shouted/sang at a football game i don't see the issue. if someone just came out with it in the street because they knew you were a rangers fan then they should get a slap but we're trivialising the issue when it gets to tit for tat levels. both sets of fans should be fighting against the laws the government has imposed as they are out and out false convictions when they say it is a sectarian or racist offence, it's verbal abuse, nothing more.

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fair enough with the statement but if you want to say fenian is not sectarian - which IMO it isn't - then you need to accept that neither is h**, or you accept that fenian is as well as h**.

i'd rather that they were accepted for what they are - derogatory terms to other fans but not sectarian.

I just hate the fact that in this country it's gotten to the point where either of these words or songs, statements, opinions etc. in relation to them can land you in jail, it's utterly sickening.

I've been called h**, said fenian plenty of times but it's to people i know won't be mock offended by it.

People don't realise that tit for tat or acting offended has played into the governments hands to the point where you're looking at jail time for saying these thing, it's unbelievable.

I just want it back to when it was all part of the rivalry and we all didn't give a fuck and just got on with it.

Slightly off topic but the entire issue of 'sectarianism' and football fries my brain in this country.

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