RIP Muhammed Ali

[dummiesoot 16,005]

7 hours ago, sassaaaa said:

All he ever done in all his fights was hang on to opponents and hold their arms. A prime Tyson would never have allowed that and would have knocked him out.

If that is all he did was hold on, he would have been unpopular, all mouth and no trousers so to speak,. His popularity does not reflect a boxer that just held on.

[sassaaaa 11,406]

Just now, dummiesoot said:

If that is all he did was hold on, he would have been unpopular, all mouth and no trousers so to speak,. His popularity does not reflect a boxer that just held on.

So you disagree he never hung over opponents and held their arms for long spells of almost all his fights ?

He was a showman and a mouthpiece and a lot of folk loved that .

All i am saying is Tyson would never have let him away with it ,and would have knocked him out , a view that a lot of ex boxers hold too.

[dummiesoot 16,005]

2 minutes ago, sassaaaa said:

So you disagree he never hung over opponents and held their arms for long spells of almost all his fights ?

He was a showman and a mouthpiece and a lot of folk loved that .

All i am saying is Tyson would never have let him away with it ,and would have knocked him out , a view that a lot of ex boxers hold too.

No, read my post, your words were he always held on, I simply said that if that is all he did, he would not be popular as boxing fans hate that. 

He did indeed hold on at times but had sublime and subtle boxing skills that you appear to believe he did not have, as all he did was hold on.

Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't think he ever hung on.

[sassaaaa 11,406]

1 minute ago, dummiesoot said:

No, read my post, your words were he always held on, I simply said that if that is all he did, he would not be popular as boxing fans hate that. 

He did indeed hold on at times but had sublime and subtle boxing skills that you appear to believe he did not have, as all he did was hold on.

Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't think he ever hung on.

Apologies , at some points in almost all his fights he hung over and held his opponents arms.

Tyson would have murdered him.

[JamieD 18,936]

Post-prime Ali held a lot more. The Ali who completely annihilated Cleveland Williams and tortured Ernie Terrell certainly didn't.

What we know for sure is that Ali, in his prime, humiliated the Tyson of his day. Then, 10 years later, past his prime, he took the title back from the most dominant and feared champion of the decade. Tyson never did anything like that. Tyson never beat a great natural heavyweight in their prime, so it's hard to say what he was capable of. He certainly never fought a heavyweight with the speed, movement and heart of Ali.

[Clemdog 39,389]

Won't pretend like I know a lot about Ali. I enjoy boxing, especially heavyweight boxing, but I'm only 24. 

I remember watching a documentary about the 'Thrilla in Manila', when I was very young, then getting the DVD for Christmas. But that was one of the first things that drew me to boxing.

Sleep easy, Champ.

[dummiesoot 16,005]

52 minutes ago, sassaaaa said:

Apologies , at some points in almost all his fights he hung over and held his opponents arms.

Tyson would have murdered him.

No worries, on the apology.We'll agree to disagree on a match up with Tyson.

[baxterboy 476]

17 hours ago, sassaaaa said:

So you disagree he never hung over opponents and held their arms for long spells of almost all his fights ?

He was a showman and a mouthpiece and a lot of folk loved that .

All i am saying is Tyson would never have let him away with it ,and would have knocked him out , a view that a lot of ex boxers hold too.

I'm afraid Tyson would have hardly landed a punch against Ali in his prime.

Ali would have danced like a butterfly repeatedly stinging him like a bee, humiliating Tyson and easily knocking him out.

I was never an Ali fan and loved Joe Frazier - who was 10 times the fighter Tyson was.

I had been training with Joe Aitchison in Glasgow when i saw Ali's first UK televised fight.

I was stunned. I couldn't believe what i was seeing - he was an arrogant loudmouth who broke every boxing rule Joe was teaching me in training. Ma da took me to see Dundee's gym in Florida where Ali trained.

The US government robbed us of some of his best years because he refused to kill Viet Cong who had neva called him nigga.

Ali was simply a phenomena  - the likes of the boxing and sporting world will never witness again.

Thanks for the entertainment, champ. RIP.

[sassaaaa 11,406]

3 minutes ago, baxterboy said:

I'm afraid Tyson would have hardly landed a punch against Ali in his prime.

Ali would have danced like a butterfly repeatedly stinging him like a bee, humiliating Tyson and easily knocking him out.

I was never an Ali fan and loved Joe Frazier - who was 10 times the fighter Tyson was.

I had been training with Joe Aitchison in Glasgow when i saw Ali's first UK televised fight.

I was stunned. I couldn't believe what i was seeing - he was an arrogant loudmouth who broke every boxing rule Joe was teaching me in training. Ma da took me to see Dundee's gym in Florida where Ali trained.

The US government robbed us of some of his best years because he refused to kill Viet Cong who had neva called him nigga.

Ali was simply a phenomena  - the likes of the boxing and sporting world will never witness again.

Thanks for the entertainment, champ. RIP.

All about opinions , still doesn't change the fact that he hung over and held all his opponents .

A young Tyson would have destroyed him .

[JamieD 18,936]

16 minutes ago, sassaaaa said:

All about opinions , still doesn't change the fact that he hung over and held all his opponents .

A young Tyson would have destroyed him .

Have you ever actually watched pre-ban Ali? He did precisely the opposite of hanging all over and holding. His critics faulted him for running.

[sassaaaa 11,406]

Just now, JamieD said:

Have you ever actually watched pre-ban Ali? He did precisely the opposite of hanging all over and holding. His critics faulted him for running.

Probably watched almost all his fights , never liked him.

I better stop spouting about him hanging and holding it obviously never happened .

I personally think Tyson would have gubbed him and its only an opinion.

[baxterboy 476]

11 minutes ago, sassaaaa said:

All about opinions , still doesn't change the fact that he hung over and held all his opponents .

A young Tyson would have destroyed him .

Sassaaa, how would Ali ever be able to have a running conversion with the crowd and telly audience if he didn't hold :).

And what is more deplorable in boxing - biting off an opponent's ear or holding?

As you say, it's all about opinions but Tyson, for me, was a poor man's Joe Frazier, and while Joe was great, Ali was the greatest. And if you don't believe me, just ask him

[JamieD 18,936]

Just now, sassaaaa said:

Probably watched almost all his fights , never liked him.

I better stop spouting about him hanging and holding it obviously never happened .

I personally think Tyson would have gubbed him and its only an opinion.

He held plenty in the 70s but I assume when we're talking mythical match-ups across eras we're talking about the prime versions of each fighters. If we're saying Ali's going to hold in his fight with Tyson then we have to assume Tyson is going to do what he did past HIS prime against top fighters and forget to move his head, lose all heart as soon as he gets hit and then get knocked the fuck out.

[sassaaaa 11,406]

1 minute ago, JamieD said:

He held plenty in the 70s but I assume when we're talking mythical match-ups across eras we're talking about the prime versions of each fighters. If we're saying Ali's going to hold in his fight with Tyson then we have to assume Tyson is going to do what he did past HIS prime against top fighters and forget to move his head, lose all heart as soon as he gets hit and then get knocked the fuck out.

Said more than once i meant in his prime, Ali would never have been allowed to hang or hold Tyson.

Don't stress its only an opinion and one that many ex boxers agree with and many who don't.

The greatest boxer in my eyes has always been Sugar Ray Leonard.

[JamieD 18,936]

2 minutes ago, sassaaaa said:

Said more than once i meant in his prime, Ali would never have been allowed to hang or hold Tyson.

Don't stress its only an opinion and one that many ex boxers agree with and many who don't.

The greatest boxer in my eyes has always been Sugar Ray Leonard.

I'm not stressing, I just don't see it. In Ali's prime he fought a load of guys who had brutal one punch knockout power, like Liston, Cleveland Williams, Patterson, and he didn't try to neutralise it by hanging all over them, he fought at a distance (with his hands down, no less) and danced around them, picking them off. Whether or not he could have kept Tyson off him is a good question, whether or not it's possible to dance away from a prime Tyson is a good question, but prime Ali was not a holder.

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

4 hours ago, sassaaaa said:

Said more than once i meant in his prime, Ali would never have been allowed to hang or hold Tyson.

Don't stress its only an opinion and one that many ex boxers agree with and many who don't.

The greatest boxer in my eyes has always been Sugar Ray Leonard.

I think Tyson's tendency to bite people's ears off might have stopped Ali from holding on to him

[ger4life_1872 29,465]

Thriller in manilla on more 4 now

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,614]

ITV 4 8pm 5 hours of Ali called Still the Greatest.