Rangers and Scotland: How they turned our own nation against us

[BLUEDIGNITY 34,090]

10 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Being a latte, baileys and biscotti man might mean I'll no fit in on here!  

 

10 hours ago, K.A.I said:

No it's being a dirty contrary wee bigoted SNP twat is the reason you don't fit in here 

And leading wae chin disnae help either einstein  ! How's that new bridge the snp are building wae Chinese steel comin alang hamish ! 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

33 minutes ago, BLUEDIGNITY said:

 

And leading wae chin disnae help either einstein  ! How's that new bridge the snp are building wae Chinese steel comin alang hamish ! 

It's a really nice bridge! Now please leave me to my crustless cucumber sandwiches you ruffian!

[THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812]

What I'm about to highlight is by no means the best example but it does inpart highlight how this country is being indoctrinated to look at our identity a certain way in opposition to the reality. 

The following is taken from a BBC piece on the Euro's, now read the reasoning behind the Irish Republic (highlighted red box) and compare that to the reasoning for the other sides. Now it may be innocent enough on the part of the author, it could be entirely subconscious, it could be anything other than sinister in its subliminal message but let's call it like it is, the piece suggests that there is a stronger relationship with Scotland and Ireland than the other Nations in the United Kingdom. 

There's no denying that there is people in Scotland with Irish ancestry, there is even a sizable number of Irish living here; the insinuation in this fluff piece however is that this exists between Ireland and Scotland and not between Scotland and any of the other home Nations, hence some players for Northern Ireland is the reason given there, England is basically said to be a question mark on the back of a seeming dislike and Wales are merely an underdog like ourselves.

So what percentage is "...many Scots......kinship...Irish"? According to the 2011 Census for Scotland; "In Scotland, a majority (83 per cent, 4.4 million) of the population stated that they felt they had a Scottish national identity, either as the only national identity they felt they had or as one of several national identities. Just over 62 per cent of people felt Scottish only, 18 per cent reported they felt both Scottish and British and a further 2 per cent felt they were Scottish in combination with some other identity. Eight per cent of people felt they had a British national identity only, 2 per cent felt English only and 2 per cent felt they had some other combination of UK identities (excluding Scottish). Four per cent of the population of Scotland felt they did not have any UK national identity." The answer therefore is less than 2% while the facts show that there is a stronger bond between Scotland and the Union Nations.

I did look briefly for the census data that showed many of those who consider themselves to be Irish actually have no birth/recent-ancestry showing that to be the case but I couldn't find it. It's an interesting insight as to the "kinship" of Scotland and Ireland but is such a small number of people in reality that not even that would be worth stating as a reason to support Ireland.

Now I'm not saying that people can't or shouldn't support the Irish Republic, I'm merely highlighting that within public life, the media, governance etc. etc. there seems to be a drive/willingness/agenda to make Scotland and the Irish Republic as synonymous with one and other in the big picture of public consciousness when in reality there is stronger ties culturally, historically, ancestrally etc. etc. with other Nations within the UK.

If you look up Irish-Scots, there is a wikipedia that proclaims the estimated number of Scots with Irish ancestry is 1.5M, and you could perhaps say "Aha, there's the proof, case closed" if you are in favour of insisting that the Scots/Irish are somehow brothers over and above the relationships shared by Scotland with the other UK Nations however you will struggle to find details of Welsh-Scots, English-Scots and the Northern-Irish/Ulster-Scots; for all that is known there is equally strong number links in those relationships; one can understandably go as far as to say there will be a far bigger number in Scotland with English ancestry and vice versa, proof would be indicated at least by the 477K English living in Scotland compared to that of 23k Irish. According to research in mapping the DNA of the British Isles we're all one people with no preferential relationship, at least on that genetic level; this doesn't insinuate a closer tie between Scotland and the rest of the UK but it further dents the insinuation that the Scots and Irish are somehow joined at a higher genetic/ancestry level. The NY times commented on these findings in 2007 to report "Britain and Ireland are so thoroughly divided in their histories that there is no single word to refer to the inhabitants of both islands. Historians teach that they are mostly descended from different peoples: the Irish from the Celts, and the English from the Anglo-Saxons who invaded from northern Europe and drove the Celts to the country’s western and northern fringes. But geneticists who have tested DNA throughout the British Isles are edging toward a different conclusion. Many are struck by the overall genetic similarities, leading some to claim that both Britain and Ireland have been inhabited for thousands of years by a single people that have remained in the majority, with only minor additions from later invaders like Celts, Romans, Angles , Saxons, Vikings and Normans."

I know this Euro fluff piece by the BBC is meaningless and I once again acknowledge that the statements made within it could be considered throwaway and harmless but this isn't the only example of this emerging "push" to see Scotland and Ireland viewed by the populace as somehow natural brothers above the relationships we hold elsewhere, we have the SNP opening an embassy in the Irish Republic, the SNP and Sinn Fein exchange tactics and experience, there is a seemingly constant desire to give special treatment to the group considered as being "somewhat Irish" within Scotland at present, there is an active and sizable number pushing for Independence and highlighting our common ground (or supposed common ground) with Ireland to do this; it's not hard to imagine that if our society pedals this myth persistently at a level whereby it is continuously fed to the public at large as being fact, then we could have a Nation of Scots confused in who they view as being our closest family/friends. You have to ask who benefits from Scotland being seen as "basically Irish" and what exactly is it that they benefit?

According to the census data furthered from what I previously quoted "4 per cent of the total population stated their national identity as  ‘Other identity only’ (i.e. no UK identity), 32 per cent of those were ‘White: Other White’, 22 per cent were ‘Asian’ and 21 per cent were ‘White: Polish’." In that vein you could argue that there is at least as many in Scotland who would be supporting Poland in these Euro's as supporting Ireland through "kinship", as a consequence perhaps Poland should have been an option at least. 

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

59 minutes ago, THE_Ibrox_Preacher said:

What I'm about to highlight is by no means the best example but it does inpart highlight how this country is being indoctrinated to look at our identity a certain way in opposition to the reality. 

The following is taken from a BBC piece on the Euro's, now read the reasoning behind the Irish Republic (highlighted red box) and compare that to the reasoning for the other sides. Now it may be innocent enough on the part of the author, it could be entirely subconscious, it could be anything other than sinister in its subliminal message but let's call it like it is, the piece suggests that there is a stronger relationship with Scotland and Ireland than the other Nations in the United Kingdom. 

There's no denying that there is people in Scotland with Irish ancestry, there is even a sizable number of Irish living here; the insinuation in this fluff piece however is that this exists between Ireland and Scotland and not between Scotland and any of the other home Nations, hence some players for Northern Ireland is the reason given there, England is basically said to be a question mark on the back of a seeming dislike and Wales are merely an underdog like ourselves.

So what percentage is "...many Scots......kinship...Irish"? According to the 2011 Census for Scotland; "In Scotland, a majority (83 per cent, 4.4 million) of the population stated that they felt they had a Scottish national identity, either as the only national identity they felt they had or as one of several national identities. Just over 62 per cent of people felt Scottish only, 18 per cent reported they felt both Scottish and British and a further 2 per cent felt they were Scottish in combination with some other identity. Eight per cent of people felt they had a British national identity only, 2 per cent felt English only and 2 per cent felt they had some other combination of UK identities (excluding Scottish). Four per cent of the population of Scotland felt they did not have any UK national identity." The answer therefore is less than 2% while the facts show that there is a stronger bond between Scotland and the Union Nations.

I did look briefly for the census data that showed many of those who consider themselves to be Irish actually have no birth/recent-ancestry showing that to be the case but I couldn't find it. It's an interesting insight as to the "kinship" of Scotland and Ireland but is such a small number of people in reality that not even that would be worth stating as a reason to support Ireland.

Now I'm not saying that people can't or shouldn't support the Irish Republic, I'm merely highlighting that within public life, the media, governance etc. etc. there seems to be a drive/willingness/agenda to make Scotland and the Irish Republic as synonymous with one and other in the big picture of public consciousness when in reality there is stronger ties culturally, historically, ancestry etc. etc. with other Nations within the UK.

If you look up Irish-Scots, there is a wikipedia that proclaims the estimated number of Scots with Irish ancestry is 1.5M, and you could perhaps say "Aha, there's the proof, case closed" if you are in favour of insisting that the Scots/Irish are somehow brothers over and above the relationships shared by Scotland with the other UK Nations however you will struggle to find details of Welsh-Scots, English-Scots and the Northern-Irish/Ulster-Scots; for all that is known there is equally strong number links in those relationships; one can understandably go as far as to say there will be a far bigger number in Scotland with English ancestry and vice versa, proof would be indicated at least by the 477K English living in Scotland compared to that of 23k Irish. According to research in mapping the DNA of the British Isles we're all one people with no preferential relationship, at least on that genetic level; this doesn't insinuate a closer tie between Scotland and the rest of the UK but it further dents the insinuation that the Scots and Irish are somehow joined at a higher genetic/ancestry level. The NY times commented on these findings in 2007 to report "Britain and Ireland are so thoroughly divided in their histories that there is no single word to refer to the inhabitants of both islands. Historians teach that they are mostly descended from different peoples: the Irish from the Celts, and the English from the Anglo-Saxons who invaded from northern Europe and drove the Celts to the country’s western and northern fringes. But geneticists who have tested DNA throughout the British Isles are edging toward a different conclusion. Many are struck by the overall genetic similarities, leading some to claim that both Britain and Ireland have been inhabited for thousands of years by a single people that have remained in the majority, with only minor additions from later invaders like Celts, Romans, Angles , Saxons, Vikings and Normans."

I know this Euro fluff piece by the BBC is meaningless and I once again acknowledge that the statements made within it could be considered throwaway and harmless but this isn't the only example of this emerging "push" to see Scotland and Ireland viewed by the populace as somehow natural brothers above the relationships we hold elsewhere, we have the SNP opening an embassy in the Irish Republic, the SNP and Sinn Fein exchange tactics and experience, there is a seemingly constant desire to give special treatment to the group considered as being "somewhat Irish" within Scotland at present, there is an active and sizable number pushing for Independence and highlighting our common ground (or supposed common ground) with Ireland to do this; it's not hard to imagine that if our society pedals this myth persistently at a level whereby it is continuously fed to the public at large as being fact, then we could have a Nation of Scots confused in who they view as being our closest family/friends. You have to ask who benefits from Scotland being seen as "basically Irish" and what exactly is it that they benefit?

According to the census data furthered from what I previously quoted "4 per cent of the total population stated their national identity as  ‘Other identity only’ (i.e. no UK identity), 32 per cent of those were ‘White: Other White’, 22 per cent were ‘Asian’ and 21 per cent were ‘White: Polish’." In that vein you could argue that there is at least as many in Scotland who would be supporting Poland in these Euro's as supporting Ireland through "kinship", as a consequence perhaps Poland should have been an option at least. 

It depends how far back you want to go. The "Scots" were originally Irish so there is a case for supporting Ireland. There would also be a case for Sweden as a Nordic country due to the Viking invasions. Many residents of Scotland have Nordic DNA as a recent survey showed. Wales are a fellow Celtic (not the team) nation so perhape we do have an affinity to them  Robert de Brus was actually of Norman descent, so maybe we should support France. Fuck it! Support who you want and don't get your knickers in a twist over a harmless bit of fun.

[Blumhoilann 6,715]

Depends how far back you want to go but around 9k years ago the Scots(Picts) inhabited the Island now know as Ireland,the Northern half approx.,having once been attached to Scotland. So in actual fact the Irish are of Scots decendency.

Laterly and mainly from Ulidia(Ulster) there was great trade and inter-breeding across the North Channel,giving rise to the belief that the Romans named these ppl as the Scati.They deemed them unrulable.It was from this name we get Scots/Scotland.

View it as you will but for me there is much more connection between Northern Ireland(Ulster) and Scotland but it suits the SNP agenda to persuade ppl they have a connection with the ppl of the ROI.

[Blumhoilann 6,715]

On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 6:14 PM, Corky True Legend said:

A badge is completely different from a flag. If you are referring to the Lion Rampant flag, that is the Royal Standard and can only be used with permission from the Lord Lyon, Canon Joe Morrow.

Oh,you're being serious? I'm aware of that,in fact my clans colours/tartan is of the Bruce's flag/standard colours,awarded back in the day for services rendered.

[K.A.I 36,183]

14 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

You really are a non inclusive chap that suffers from a high degree of false-consensus complex and with no sense of humour and the wit of a haddock! Or basically a sad fuck! 

Maybe but at least I'm honest and know an absolute nob when I see one 

well seen another fud in Briton liked your post 

[Inigo 33,338]

1 hour ago, Blumhoilann said:

Depends how far back you want to go but around 9k years ago the Scots(Picts) inhabited the Island now know as Ireland,the Northern half approx.,having once been attached to Scotland. So in actual fact the Irish are of Scots decendency.

Laterly and mainly from Ulidia(Ulster) there was great trade and inter-breeding across the North Channel,giving rise to the belief that the Romans named these ppl as the Scati.They deemed them unrulable.It was from this name we get Scots/Scotland.

View it as you will but for me there is much more connection between Northern Ireland(Ulster) and Scotland but it suits the SNP agenda to persuade ppl they have a connection with the ppl of the ROI.

There were no such thing as Scots or Pics 9000 years ago, squire. The landmass was probs inhabited by mesolithic hunter-gatherers that spread into the land area behind retreating ice before a recognisable Ireland or Britain even existed. The first known culture in Scotland seems to have been the Maglemosian culture, which probably headed our way from the Denmark area across doggerland. And Irish mesolithic people probably did arrive across a land bridge from Scotland, but these were all people that had migrated, ultimately, over a long time period, from some distance away in Europe.

You've got to remember, about 9000 years ago you'd have been lucky if there were 10k people living in Britain. The idea of Picts and Scots was still some 7000 years away.

But anyway, European migration is ridiculously complicated and our, and Irish, ancestry is pretty varied, taking all sorts of bits and pieces of DNA lineage from all sorts of places. However, I'm pretty sure you're right that Scotland, well, the south west of Scotland, has more genetic similarity to Ulster than much of the rest of Ireland because of much back and forth recent migration. 

Not that I think any of it matters that much. Strange discussion, this.

 

[Blumhoilann 6,715]

27 minutes ago, Inigo said:

There were no such thing as Scots or Pics 9000 years ago, squire. The landmass was probs inhabited by mesolithic hunter-gatherers that spread into the land area behind retreating ice before a recognisable Ireland or Britain even existed. The first known culture in Scotland seems to have been the Maglemosian culture, which probably headed our way from the Denmark area across doggerland. And Irish mesolithic people probably did arrive across a land bridge from Scotland, but these were all people that had migrated, ultimately, over a long time period, from some distance away in Europe.

You've got to remember, about 9000 years ago you'd have been lucky if there were 10k people living in Britain. The idea of Picts and Scots was still some 7000 years away.

But anyway, European migration is ridiculously complicated and our, and Irish, ancestry is pretty varied, taking all sorts of bits and pieces of DNA lineage from all sorts of places. However, I'm pretty sure you're right that Scotland, well, the south west of Scotland, has more genetic similarity to Ulster than much of the rest of Ireland because of much back and forth recent migration. 

Not that I think any of it matters that much. Strange discussion, this.

 

I accept you're correct about the mesolithis ppl.Couldn't think of who went before the picts,squire,haha. So you agree that 'Ireland' was inhabited via 'Scotland' and not the other way around.

There have been DNA examinations of the Southern Irish with some 'experts' claiming they are not of gaelic decent.

As you say,strange discussion

[Inigo 33,338]

27 minutes ago, Blumhoilann said:

I accept you're correct about the mesolithis ppl.Couldn't think of who went before the picts,squire,haha. So you agree that 'Ireland' was inhabited via 'Scotland' and not the other way around.

There have been DNA examinations of the Southern Irish with some 'experts' claiming they are not of gaelic decent.

As you say,strange discussion

Yeah. In a past life I delved into ancestry genetics for a while, read a bit, went to some lectures and stuff. 

I think there was evidence of La Tene culture Celtic migration to Britain and Ireland (this itself developed from an earlier central European proto-Celtic culture called 'Urnfield' because they buried their dead's ashes in urnfields). I think there is some genetic evidence for migrations from Europe at this point to Britain and Ireland. 

A significant part of Irish genetics is probably archaic, that is from really old indigenous (as far as they can be) people from mesolithic and neolithic migrations, some people say from central Europe, ultimately from Eastern Europe and Anatolia, some say from Iberia. On top of that Celtic migrations. On top of that a small Viking influence and then back and forth from Britain. 

It's complex, and different aspects of genetics can show different parts of the lineage of a people. Y-Chromosome haplogroups and Mitochondrial haplogroups allow you to follow various male and female lines of lineage, such that you can see loads of different genetic influences to various degrees in any given population. 

Like us, the Irish are a bit of a genetic hotchpotch. European migration is all over the place and has had loads of waves, and population movements such that most peoples nowadays have some interesting genetic compositions.

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

1 hour ago, Inigo said:

Yeah. In a past life I delved into ancestry genetics for a while, read a bit, went to some lectures and stuff. 

I think there was evidence of La Tene culture Celtic migration to Britain and Ireland (this itself developed from an earlier central European proto-Celtic culture called 'Urnfield' because they buried their dead's ashes in urnfields). I think there is some genetic evidence for migrations from Europe at this point to Britain and Ireland. 

A significant part of Irish genetics is probably archaic, that is from really old indigenous (as far as they can be) people from mesolithic and neolithic migrations, some people say from central Europe, ultimately from Eastern Europe and Anatolia, some say from Iberia. On top of that Celtic migrations. On top of that a small Viking influence and then back and forth from Britain. 

It's complex, and different aspects of genetics can show different parts of the lineage of a people. Y-Chromosome haplogroups and Mitochondrial haplogroups allow you to follow various male and female lines of lineage, such that you can see loads of different genetic influences to various degrees in any given population. 

Like us, the Irish are a bit of a genetic hotchpotch. European migration is all over the place and has had loads of waves, and population movements such that most peoples nowadays have some interesting genetic compositions.

Not only that but there is now genetic evidence that there was interbreeding between homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis so when someone refers to a person as a neanderthal, he is probably not far off the truth.

[RFCRobertson 11,794]

You just need to go onto the facebook page "Free Scotland".

Without much trouble was able to find a good amount of posts just straight up bashing us. Saying we're not Scottish, We're British and shit like that. 

You really wish this sort of thing wasn't true, but sadly it is. Scotland should be proud and should hold us in high regard, we are the most successful Football Club in the world and we are situated in a hate filled country that would set itself on fire if it meant living out a fantasy because they watched too much Braveheart. 

[Sweetheart 8,458]

On 05/06/2016 at 9:33 PM, StaunchLondonGer said:

[

Excellent post!  I'd send it to lvl5 Imho It's worthy of a full page ad to try and deal with the brand damage on Rangers 

You might find this article interesting, saying that the debate is going along the lines of when did Catholicism first appear in Scotland

Quote

 

the earliest indubitable evidence of the religious connection of Scotland with Rome is afforded by the history of Ninian, who, born in the southwest of Scotland about 360, went to study at Rome, was consecrated bishop by Pope Siricius, returned to his native country about 402, and built at Candida Casa, now Whithorn, the first stone church in Scotland. He also founded there a famous monastery, whence saints and missionaries went out to preach; not only through the whole south of Scotland, but also in Ireland.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13613a.htm