RFC23 0 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 With the signings of Kranjcar and Windass, does anyone think that Warbs may be considering a change in formation from our usual 4-3-3 to maybe a 4-2-3-1? Kranjcar and Windass are both numbers 10s, with McKay excelling last season at times in a similar role and Forrester having his best games centrally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,344 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombaybadboy08 15,660 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Are you an earlier prototype of rfc52? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromDeAnglais 5,470 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Welcome to Rangers Media Before we talk tactics. Did ye go to St. Ninians? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC23 0 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 Thanks! Nah Kirky High! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromDeAnglais 5,470 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, RFC23 said: Thanks! Nah Kirky High! Good answer Expect abuse for being a new member. All in good spirit (and to weed out beasts). To answer your Q, Warburton has utilised 4-3-3 every season since he became a manager. I'd be very surprised if he was to change that, it's very much part of his philosophy of attacking fluid football. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser1041 9,088 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Newco rfc52 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC23 0 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, PromDeAnglais said: Good answer Expect abuse for being a new member. All in good spirit (and to weed out beasts). To answer your Q, Warburton has utilised 4-3-3 every season since he became a manager. I'd be very surprised if he was to change that, it's very much part of his philosophy of attacking fluid football. I wouldn't expect anything less haha! Aye that's a fair point, just watching Kranjcar's press conference got me thinking, when he was asked what position he'd prefer to play he said "Number 10." Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobham 1,569 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 No chance. 4-3-3 or nothing. Even when we get a man sent off we'll play 4-3-3 such is his determination to make it work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds 3,359 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Sevco52 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromDeAnglais 5,470 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, RFC23 said: I wouldn't expect anything less haha! Aye that's a fair point, just watching Kranjcar's press conference got me thinking, when he was asked what position he'd prefer to play he said "Number 10." Could be that he reshuffles the midfield so that it's more like a Barcelona-esque shape instead of a DM and 2 flat CMs. For example Barton sitting in front of the defence in a Busquet type role, Rossiter at CM and Kranjcar the AM playmaker. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I think Warburton is evidently rounding out the squad to give options formation wise. With what we're currently got you could change the formation a number of ways without weakening the first 11, that's encouraging signs that there is more than a Plan B of doing Plan A better. As an example, the op's suggestion would likely be.. Foderingham/Alternate #1 or competition yet to be signed. Tavernier/RWB,LWB cover player yet to be signed, Yet to be signed but possibly Mariappa/Kiernan/Wilson, Hill/Kiernan/Wilson, Wallace/RWB,LWB cover player yet to be signed Crooks/Rossiter/Halliday Barton/Rossiter/Halliday Kranjcar/Holt/Forrester Forrester/O'Halloran/Waghorn McKay/Windass Waghorn/Miller/yet to be signed/O'Hallaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gersandy 594 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Ive brough this up in another thread. Right now the GK and defence pick themselves. Barton will probably be 1st choice holding midfielder. Crooks or Halliday will cover when Bartons unavailable. That leaves Holt, Rossiter, Forrester, Kranjcar all fighting for 2 spots (probably Niko and another) McKay, Windass, Miller, Waghorn, and i think one more signing will fight it out for the 3 forward lines. What i like now though is the depth. Windass can play anywhere in midfield and upfront. Halliday can play DM, LWB, LM, no10. Holt can play just about anywhere, as can Kranjcar. Crooks can play in defence or midfield. Forrester can play many different positions. No matter what team Warburton puts out, its going to be difficult for other managers to predict where each of our players are playing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theiconicman 2,973 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, THE_Ibrox_Preacher said: I think Warburton is evidently rounding out the squad to give options formation wise. With what we're currently got you could change the formation a number of ways without weakening the first 11, that's encouraging signs that there is more than a Plan B of doing Plan A better. As an example, the op's suggestion would likely be.. Foderingham/Alternate #1 or competition yet to be signed. Tavernier/RWB,LWB cover player yet to be signed, Yet to be signed but possibly Mariappa/Kiernan/Wilson, Hill/Kiernan/Wilson, Wallace/RWB,LWB cover player yet to be signed Crooks/Rossiter/Halliday Barton/Rossiter/Halliday Kranjcar/Holt/Forrester Forrester/O'Halloran/Waghorn McKay/Windass Waghorn/Miller/yet to be signed/O'Hallaron Away with yer 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1........whitever that is Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Ranger 21 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Any team playing a 433 should be able to reshape into a 4231 and back anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam English Loyal 945 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Be interesting to see how Tavernier and Wallace would adapt to playing as out-and-out wing backs, in a 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 for instance. If I was MW I'd try it in one of the League Cup group games. But then again I'm not a top level manager with supernatural headwear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudrup1984 25,100 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Warburton's preference is clearly 433 but as touched upon reverting from 433 to 4231 isn't so drastic and I'm fairly sure we've reverted to a version of it a few times last season. McKay has been moved into the number 10 position a few times, as have others so we've not always played a typical 433. I've always felt it's been a fairly flexible and interchangeable 433. I've no doubt we'll be looking to keep the preferred 433 formation, and with better starters and squad players available I'd expect us to improve upon last season and hopefully learn from our mistakes, and more importantly be a bit more clinical in the final third with that added quality. We have an even more versatile squad now IMO, especially in the front 6 positions, so depending on how a certain game is going I certainly think we may see 4231 on a few occasions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddiqi_drinker 14,635 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 46 minutes ago, THE_Ibrox_Preacher said: I think Warburton is evidently rounding out the squad to give options formation wise. With what we're currently got you could change the formation a number of ways without weakening the first 11, that's encouraging signs that there is more than a Plan B of doing Plan A better. As an example, the op's suggestion would likely be.. Foderingham/Alternate #1 or competition yet to be signed. Tavernier/RWB,LWB cover player yet to be signed, Yet to be signed but possibly Mariappa/Kiernan/Wilson, Hill/Kiernan/Wilson, Wallace/RWB,LWB cover player yet to be signed Crooks/Rossiter/Halliday Barton/Rossiter/Halliday Kranjcar/Holt/Forrester Forrester/O'Halloran/Waghorn McKay/Windass Waghorn/Miller/yet to be signed/O'Hallaron This fukking guy 'yet go be' must be as versatile as fuk, can play anywhere, what school did he attend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, siddiqi_drinker said: This fukking guy 'yet go be' must be as versatile as fuk, can play anywhere, what school did he attend? Warburton said the other day he was looking to sign players for those positions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misteral 2,932 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I said this in another thread. We will line up 433 on paper but the way we play and the mobility of the players we have it really means little during the game. We will look more like 415 or even 235 when pressing hard. We play a possession based game rather than a formation based game and that will not change. it's our movement on and off the ball that will be tweaked (possibly depending on who we are playing) but our general approach to the game won't change and neither will the 433 line-up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddiqi_drinker 14,635 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, THE_Ibrox_Preacher said: Warburton said the other day he was looking to sign players for those positions. Really? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, siddiqi_drinker said: Really? GK, CB, Someone to cover for both Wallace/Tav, Striker he said. GK - unknown. The press say Gilks. CB could be Mariappa as seen with Weir and co. RWB/LWB - unknown even to the press. Striker - unknown. The press say Bradshaw/Vaughen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheckMateCharlie 228 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Gersnet done a fantastic article on it a few weeks back. http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/news-category/current-affairs/638-attack-attack-attack It's 'attack, attack, attack!' 'It's the most exciting football we've ever seen at the club. We used to get caught on the break at times, but that's the style of football -- score more goals than the opposition'. Such was the testimony of Brentford fans when curious bears asked, "what's he like?" At the time it was exactly what we wanted to hear. After several years of slow, ponderous, route-one football of the McCoist era, it was time for something more progressive, more proactive -- something more fitting, in the world of tiki-taka. But, the honeymoon ended. The 3-1 defeat to St Johnstone was as comprehensive a defeat as we'd seen since Warburton and Davie Weir entered the hallowed halls of Ibrox. There were rumblings among the support that, perhaps, Warburton's "attack, attack, attack" philosophy was too naive for a title-chasing team. After all, the gaffer's continued refrain is 'plan B is to do plan A better'. It's admirable, but does it lack the pragmatism required to win titles? The perception from these rumblings is that Warburton is too stubborn in his approach; too unwilling to change when change is required. This is not strictly true. Sure, his philosophy is proactive, concerned with dominating possession and taking the game to the opposition. But within this framework, within which this philosophy is executed, he has demonstrated an ability to tinker with his formations. In his first season with Brentford in League One, Warburton chose an offensive 4-3-3 formation. This formation featured two adventurous number 8's, two aggressive wingers who always looked to stretch the play, and a roaming centre-forward. It was an aggressive approach that sought to dominate games, and achieve promotion. This equates nicely with our own approach this past season: an aggressive approach that sought to achieve promotion. For all it's defensive flaws, it worked. When it came to Brentford's Championship season, Warburton tinkered; trying 4-1-4-1 and a defensive 4-3-3. Eventually, he settled on a 4-2-3-1. Of course, Warburton is never going to deviate from his favoured style -- attack, attack, attack! -- but by adopting a slightly different shape he added defensive stability. The proof is in the pudding, and a play-off spot in what is an extremely competitive league would suggest it was an unmitigated success. From a Rangers point of view, it may be likely that, as we make the step up to the Premiership, we will see the more defensively stable 4-2-3-1 being adopted as our default formation. It's clear that Warburton's chosen formations are all variations on the same 4-3-3. The 4-1-4-1 just has deeper wingers, and the 4-2-3-1 has two number 6's instead of one. In many ways not a lot changes: He still likes three attackers in the final third, the fullbacks will always push on, and there will always be a three-man midfield. But in other ways, it is quite different. In the middle -- whether that's a 1-2 (as in the 4-3-3) or a 2-1 (as in the 4-2-3-1) -- logically, the roles of the midfield trio are completely different. That is because the triangles are different, the zones in which the midfielders operate are different, and the transitions, from defense to attack, are different. The 4-3-3 transitions, from back to front, into a 2-3-2-3 shape -- we see this at Rangers, with the Fullbacks pushing on to appear in-line with Ball, with Holt and Halliday in front, and then we have the 3 up top -- which eventually transitions into a 3-4-3 shape when the team is ready to attack the final third -- Ball staying back, with the Fullbacks creating a 4 in midfield with Halliday and Holt. The 4-2-3-1 in contrast transitions, from back to front, from a 4-4-1-1 to eventually end up in a 2-4-4 attacking shape. The way in which the general framework moves in transitions has an influence on the midfield triangles. In the 4-3-3, the 2 in the 1-2 midfield shape are playmakers (Halliday and Holt), while the Wingers move in-field and the Fullbacks push on to provide width. The 1, the DM, will stay back to provide a solid defensive unit. In the 4-2-3-1, the double pivot are required to stay back and provide the defensive stability, while the Number 10, Wingers and Fullbacks push forward. Because there are 2 pivots, they will tend to have 2 distinct roles: one will be the ball-winner, holding his position and providing the base for the rest of the team; while another will be the ball-player, responsible for dictating play and pulling the strings from deep. The double pivot that epitomised this distinction was Alonso and Mascherano at Liverpool. While Mascherano would tenaciously hunt and regain the ball, Alonso (still playing deep) would dictate play, pinging balls every which way. Another would be Gattuso and Pirlo in the Milan side of the early 00's. One is the ball-winner, the other the ball-player. Moreover, the advanced playmaker -- the 1 in the 2-1 shape -- will have more license to get into the box. To use the Liverpool example, Gerard epitomised this role. He starts deeper (from between the lines) but he is always looking to either work the channels and free space for the main striker, or burst into the box himself if the striker starts to drift out wide. Not just an advanced playmaker, but almost a second-striker. Rangers signings thus far have hinted at this shift in both shape and roles. Joey Barton has been the 'marquee' signing for Rangers, and his role for Burnley fits seamlessly into the 4-2-3-1. Barton is tenacious, gutsy and an excellent tackler and reader of the game. It is quite easy to see him in the role of the ball-winner at Rangers. The fact that he can also play the ball-player role too is good news for Rangers. The other signing thus far also fit into this shape. Jordan Rossiter is a player that plays deep, again a decent ball-winner, but is also a crisp and accurate passer of the ball. Again, we have another player that can play both roles. Matt Crooks, while not being the ball-player, can easily fit into the ball-winner role. Warburton has shown a preference for fluidity and versatility. Therefore, it makes sense for him to target players that can play in a certain system (4-2-3-1), while also being able to play a variety of roles within it. Again, the signing of Josh Windass fits into this different advanced-playmaker role described above. Despite being defined as a Number 10, he has played as a striker for Accrington Stanley, as well as on the wing. He is a versatile player, but it is easy to imagine Windass in the advanced-playmaker role, bursting from in-between the lines to cause danger in the box. It also helps that we already have a player in Jason Holt that is tailor-made for this role too. Plan B will always be to do plan A better. Warburton will always want to see his teams dominate the football with a possession-based, attacking style. But that doesn't mean he can't, or won't, change. At Brentford, despite continuing with the attacking style, he demonstrated that he can change the framework, or shape, within which this style is executed. By shifting to a 4-2-3-1, he added defensive stability to a attacking style for his first campaign in the English Championship. Rangers' signings thus far (Barton, Rossiter, Crooks and Windass) hint at the possibility of this change happening again. Attacking aggressively when you can dominate, but adding that defensive stability when it is required. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_4 34,346 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Touch wood, we're in good shape Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbGER 24,518 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, graeme_4 said: Touch wood, we're in good shape Think that might be too many players mate,we would end up getting demoted to division 3 again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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