EX VILLA PLAYER DIES AFTER BEING TASERED.

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

Just now, Inigo said:

Ah right, so you don't know.

Whatever the situation was, the police are supposed to serve and protect the public. Someone dying as a result of a taser being used is surely gross negligence towards the safety of that person.

[Inigo 32,526]

Just now, BF2 said:

Whatever the situation was, the police are supposed to serve and protect the public. Someone dying as a result of a taser being used is surely gross negligence towards the safety of that person.

Why is it gross negligence? How do you know that if you don't know the circumstances?

You are aware that the police are legally entitled to carry and use them? They are not non-lethal weapons, they are less-lethal weapons, such that deaths can happen where there is no negligence on the part of the cop using it. 

If you don't like the idea of cops using them, it's the government you should be angry at, because they make the decision. But as things stand, there's no evidence of negligent use of the thing. With tasers death does not equal negligence.

[dalton 1,192]

Shocked by this was a prolific striker in his day when villa were good . The next match at villa park might be a problem .

[Bighouse 1,012]

Sounds as though he had serious mental health problems. I would imagine there will be a minutes silence at the weekend.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

Got my candles and ready to head down to George Sq, what time does the vigil start.

Will the Johnny Doyle case be reopened, cops in the attic?  

[Terry Hurlock Loyal 12,133]

4 hours ago, cushynumber said:

whats the current situation? anyone been charged? if not the guys family need to amp this up or theres the potential for trouble and thats not how this should be conducted.

I'ts clear he offered no resistance to this.

[TopCat 4,511]

What a tragic waste of life. 

[Junior Soprano 22,428]

2 hours ago, BF2 said:

Whatever the situation was, the police are supposed to serve and protect the public. Someone dying as a result of a taser being used is surely gross negligence towards the safety of that person.

He died of a heart attack. Id say that heart disease killed him.

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

1 minute ago, Junior Soprano said:

He died of a heart attack. Id say that heart disease killed him.

Fair enough if true (in terms of blame on the police). 

[roboscot 1,176]

2 hours ago, Inigo said:

Why is it gross negligence? How do you know that if you don't know the circumstances?

You are aware that the police are legally entitled to carry and use them? They are not non-lethal weapons, they are less-lethal weapons, such that deaths can happen where there is no negligence on the part of the cop using it. 

If you don't like the idea of cops using them, it's the government you should be angry at, because they make the decision. But as things stand, there's no evidence of negligent use of the thing. With tasers death does not equal negligence.

That's pretty much word for word what Taser told every police force who they supply. 

They have completely refused to accept that Taser is anything less than 100% safe to use despite numerous deaths and misuses by police. 

I would strongly suggest you take a look at the documentary I posted the link to, Taser is so dangerous that some police chiefs in the States are removing them from service due to deaths of unarmed civilians and cops using them whenever someone doesn't do what they're told. 

[Inigo 32,526]

1 minute ago, roboscot said:

That's pretty much word for word what Taser told every police force who they supply. 

They have completely refused to accept that Taser is anything less than 100% safe to use despite numerous deaths and misuses by police. 

I would strongly suggest you take a look at the documentary I posted the link to, Taser is so dangerous that some police chiefs in the States are removing them from service due to deaths of unarmed civilians and cops using them whenever someone doesn't do what they're told. 

Who, the police? The police in Scotland themselves refer to them as 'a less lethal option'. It's no more supposed to be non-lethal than a baton. It's only armed cops that use them and they have the same rules in terms of using them as a firearm. It just happens to be a better, less likely to be lethal, option than a firearm. 

England I don't know about so much, but I'd hazard that they're equally aware of the dangers but have decided it's a balance they need to take. remember, if you're saying the police shouldn't have anything lethal, you'd be removing the baton from them too.

[roboscot 1,176]

As ling as you trust old bill to be trained not to kill you, that's cool Inigo. 

There are thousands of these things in service all over the world, they are being used as a punishment tool, not a last resort.  

Innocent people die from them. 

[Inigo 32,526]

11 minutes ago, roboscot said:

As ling as you trust old bill to be trained not to kill you, that's cool Inigo. 

There are thousands of these things in service all over the world, they are being used as a punishment tool, not a last resort.  

Innocent people die from them. 

How many deaths have there been as a result of taser use (or guns) in Scotland in the last 10 years?

Not many mate. In fact, I think it's none. Also here they are often used where otherwise a gun would have been, so in that sense they're preventing death... for that reason I wouldn't be blinded by a distrust of the police on this, because that could end up with unintended consequences.

Innocent people generally don't die from them here and they're probably not any more likely to kill if used than they are from a baton strike. If a cop feels the need to defend themselves, I'd guess that a baton is every bit is likely as a taser to kill. So unless you're saying the police shouldn't be armed at all...

[roboscot 1,176]

??

[Thewhitesettler 2,711]

If these tasers can kill, and the police knew this, then they should take every taser off them.

 

[Creampuff 22,628]

13 hours ago, Inigo said:

How many deaths have there been as a result of taser use (or guns) in Scotland in the last 10 years?

Not many mate. In fact, I think it's none. Also here they are often used where otherwise a gun would have been, so in that sense they're preventing death... for that reason I wouldn't be blinded by a distrust of the police on this, because that could end up with unintended consequences.

Innocent people generally don't die from them here and they're probably not any more likely to kill if used than they are from a baton strike. If a cop feels the need to defend themselves, I'd guess that a baton is every bit is likely as a taser to kill. So unless you're saying the police shouldn't be armed at all...

 

That's not the best attitude to have. Essentially everytime they're used they're used on people who - in the eyes of the law - are innocent. 

Also, this "the police wouldn't have done it if the guy didn't do something wrong" attitude is just as dangerous as the "police are out to get us" attitude.

Heathly scepticism, please.

[WadeWilson 4,670]

22 hours ago, Junior Soprano said:

Black life's matter. 

It's a pity your education didn't.

[WadeWilson 4,670]

20 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Bet that was an electric situation 

You playing the Fringe this year, mate?

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

19 hours ago, cushynumber said:

whats the current situation? anyone been charged? if not the guys family need to amp this up or theres the potential for trouble and thats not how this should be conducted.

Unfair!  You've used all available puns!!

[miracle 7,790]

He didn't respect the power of the police and put up too much resistance.  

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,137]

The polis need to give the suspect a questionare before they use these things, the suspect should be asked if they have any medical conditions that would be affected by the taser. Once this is done they can shoot them.

[AlCapone 7,678]

21 hours ago, BF2 said:

Will be swept under the carpet just like every other police murder. 

Murder my hairy arse 

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

16 minutes ago, AlCapone said:

Murder my hairy arse 

No thanks.......

[Inigo 32,526]

4 hours ago, Creampuff said:

 

That's not the best attitude to have. Essentially everytime they're used they're used on people who - in the eyes of the law - are innocent. 

Also, this "the police wouldn't have done it if the guy didn't do something wrong" attitude is just as dangerous as the "police are out to get us" attitude.

Heathly scepticism, please.

Aye, thanks for the advice. Not so much for misrepresenting my point of view. Nothing I've said suggests that bit in bold in the slightest. 

Not entirely sure what you're getting at in your first sentence. I assume you mean 'innocent until proven guilty'. Yeah, sure. But this isn't designed as a punishment. The police also have a right to defend themselves, so this knee-jerk response to taser use is anything but 'healthy scepticism'. Which was my point if you read back, in relation to someone that was mentioning police 'murder' without knowing any of the circumstances. On occasion, the police WILL abuse them, I'm not stupid enough to believe otherwise, but that can be said about any method of 'defence' and can't be used as a reason to prevent the police from defending themselves in general. By that logic we'd remove their baton too, unless it can be proven that the taser is more likely than a baton to kill if used. Can't see it myself, but I'm open to the argument, because everything is about proportionality.

So, accepting the police can defend themselves, each incident can only be examined on it's own merits.  And in relation to this particular incident, I'll do all that I really can do and wait for the outcome of the inquest. And ongoing I'll keep an eye on stats, which don't look particularly unhealthy at the moment.  However, the police have a right to defend themselves, and in that respect batons, and pretty much anything else they can reasonably carry, have similar potential to be lethal. 

I have plenty of scepticism when it comes to the police, but I don't have any particular problem with the police carrying tasers as things stand, and I especially don't about how they're used here in Scotland. Their use in Scotland is in such a manner that they're used as a less-lethal alternative to conventional guns, by firearms cops, a strategy which I find pretty difficult to argue with. The only argument is whether all cops should have them, or as in England more front line ones. I'm willing to hear arguments, but I can't see the major difference between that and a baton. In fact, in most cases it's probably favourable from a 'healthy scepticism' perspective. Taser use can't be hidden as easily as baton use can, because it's electronically recorded.

As for 'innocent people generally don't die from them here' not being a healthy attitude... well, it isn't my attitude. It's a reference to the statistics.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 5:25 PM, BF2 said:

Whatever the situation was, the police are supposed to serve and protect the public. Someone dying as a result of a taser being used is surely gross negligence towards the safety of that person.

2 things will happen . After an internal investigation is announced .

It will take months/years to get any answers .

By that time the fuckpig gestapo will have covered everyone of their backs and tracks .

If it's high profile , the process may be speeded up just a little but it will still be a cover up .

That is their speciality