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1 hour ago, TheLoudenTavernier said:

I don't know if it's just me but I feel like all his interviews just repeat the same shite phrases.

I tend not to listen to them, but I see you guys reporting the same things said time after time....

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50 minutes ago, gersandy said:

I disagree. I think alot of Holts work is done off the ball. Making runs. Today would have suited the wee man.

Doing 'your best work off the ball' has a shelf life - sooner or later you need to get involved & actually do something.

I actually think Holt had the best football brain in our squad (apart from Nico) but he's a bit short of pace and is too lightweight for a regular slot.

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2 hours ago, the brown brogue said:

He's probably suited to a wee team with little expectations, the kind of team who are satisfied with a mid table finish and who concede as many as they score, the odd comfortable win where things click mixed with the polar opposite. But I just dont think he has the mentality or experience for a job of this size.

Unfortunately I am starting to think you might be correct but hope he can turn it around. The problem is he has played his cards in the summer window and the defence has not been improved and that is a huge worry at the moment. 

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39 minutes ago, Bakbear said:

I have watched Warburton closely in the short time he has been with us and i really enjoyed the way he brought structure and organisation to our club, not just the team mind, but the whole club. However I have never liked his "do plan A better" schtick....

I read Alex Fergusons book 'leading" which is Fergies attempt to apply his football management techniques to the business world. It was while reading that book that I realised, you can bring some football management to the business environment but it is too wide a skill set for most of it to apply to business. Much of what Fergie talks about just isn't relevant to business; changing strategy every week depending on your opponent, change personnel to counter the other teams strengths and weaknesses, getting inside the oppositions head. Knowing how to get the best out of certain individuals and accommodating them in your team, etc. None of that really works in company organisational behaviour. So flipping the situation and thinking about a business manager trying to manage a football team and you see where it starts to fall apart.

This is what i believe is happening with Warburton.

He is determined that he will bring the business ethos to football and in my opinion it is just not going to be successful. He insists on calling it the place of work (and it is) he insists that they stick to one strategy, he steadfastly maintains that it is all about the squad and every player is trained to play their position so that he has confidence in no matter who he plays because they follow their job description and know their roles and responsibilities. He repeats over and over again, "with respect, its not about what they do its about what we do"

The on field football is NOT business, it requires a different skill set, it requires tactical nous and adaptability, it requires football intelligence.. If it didn't you me and anyone else would be football managers... you need to know what the opposition are doing and you need to adapt to what they do, change things to take advantage of what they are doing, otherwise you are just one dimensional and teams will adapt to what you do and destroy you.

I have said several times that i believe Warburton will learn this.... those hopes are fading

Some interesting reflections here.  I don't think Warburton is trying to apply a business philosophy directly to football in an undiluted way, but you could be right in the sense that he is getting the balance wrong, at least some of the time.  He's a bright guy, though, and I'm still hopeful that he will make the required adaptations and be successful. I would rather give an intelligent manager like this a real chance to prove himself, than go back to one of the 'usual suspects'. The balance of the summer signings (ie skewed towards 'veterans' some of whom, on the basis of recent performances, just don't have it anymore) worries me.  However, the change in culture Warburton has brought within the club, and the much more professional approach to training and the backroom work, are to be applauded.  On a day like this, it's not going to be popular to ask for a bit more patience, but let's stick with it and see where we are around the turn of the year.  This first season back at the top level was always going to be a tough one. 

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49 minutes ago, HG5 said:

He signed them & continues to play them, and seems unwilling or unable to coach out their deficiencies.

IMO mate you can only expect so much from a free transfer. Kiernan's issues Imo have nothing to do with coaching its just the basics of his game. You can't coach winning headers and picking people up that should just be a given for a defender

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Warburton knows he has a problem in defence, why would he pitch Senderos straight into today's game otherwise.  

Much as I enjoyed us last year, I think the system the manager wants to play exposes defenders and therefore that they demands exceptional mobile defenders.  Clearly, we have not recruited anyone in that category (unless Crooks turns out to be the answer, unlikely).  Going forward, the manager can waste time trying different CB combinations but I don't think that is going to be the answer given the limited choice we have.  Manager has got to use his brains here, if we don't have the players to play a particular system, we have to change the system to accommodate them.  That's the only way I can see us having any success this year (that and learning to defend at set pieces better).

Doesnt mean he cannot return to his preferred system in forthcoming seasons when we may have better defenders who can cope with it.  

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Just now, KingKirk said:

IMO mate you can only expect so much from a free transfer. Kiernan's issues Imo have nothing to do with coaching its just the basics of his game. You can't coach winning headers and picking people up that should just be a given for a defender

I agree about expectations of free transfers - got shot down for being critical of his signing in the first place & told I had to trust MW's judgement.

I think you can improve folk - not everybody starts out as the finished article, so MW should have been seeing him as someone who would hack it last year, then be discarded as we moved up, or 'train on' & develop with us as we rose.

He managed ok last year, until the later stages, so I can only assume MW's argument for sticking with him is that he thinks he can do something with him.

We could do with a bit of progress in that direction!

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11 minutes ago, KingKirk said:

IMO mate you can only expect so much from a free transfer. Kiernan's issues Imo have nothing to do with coaching its just the basics of his game. You can't coach winning headers and picking people up that should just be a given for a defender

Theres a reason at 25 this guy has been at twelve clubs , Warburton was the only one that couldn't see it .

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I worry that Warburton will keep playing Barton and Nico because they are his highest profile signings instead of going back to his policy of playing young, hungry guys and playing at a high tempo. I think we have the nucleus of a good squad without either of them, and Crooks is still to come in.  The defence puts the fear of death into me, Senderos looked like a bomb scare even before the sending off. 

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The team selection was curious but overall it was basic defending mistakes that cost us today. A free header for the first goal. A mistake by Kiernan. A sending off. I'm as gutted as anyone but we still don't know our best team. Yeah, we've known for ages about the problem in defence and so has the manager but we just don't have a couple of million to go out and spend on a defender.

In contrast, Rogers had it easy in that the best Celtic team was already obvious; they've got the new manager bounce plus they've spent a few million on Sinclair and overall, their wage bill must be astronomical. They've been stockpiling cash over the last few years and now they're blowing it like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Even with Champions League cash how sustainable is that?  Once they've had a few hidings in the CL and a few injuries let's see what happens.

In any event, it's even more important now that we stick together and back the manager and the team. This is a sore one to take but we need to give him this entire season to see where it goes. We've brought in a lot of new players, they need time to gel and we now need to be looking for imrovement. Plus it needs to be installed in them that every other team in the land wants to beat us so badly, they would kill their own mothers for a result against us.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, HG5 said:

I agree about expectations of free transfers - got shot down for being critical of his signing in the first place & told I had to trust MW's judgement.

I think you can improve folk - not everybody starts out as the finished article, so MW should have been seeing him as someone who would hack it last year, then be discarded as we moved up, or 'train on' & develop with us as we rose.

He managed ok last year, until the later stages, so I can only assume MW's argument for sticking with him is that he thinks he can do something with him.

We could do with a bit of progress in that direction!

I 100% agree but I think the same about every CB at our club just now not 1 is good enough for this higher level. All the mistakes been made are been punished heavily. Unless the board give Warburton some decent cash to sort it I don't see anything improving.

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Am concerned that, in looking for experienced players, he went for 3 in their 30's...a couple of whom were (in all honesty) scrap heap style signings (in terms of having it at top level football). Also concerns me we're developing a McCoist style of team selection where we concentrate on being ultra defensive. 

In truth, I think we were a good Championship team, but we're bang average at best in the Premiership.

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18 minutes ago, KingKirk said:

I 100% agree but I think the same about every CB at our club just now not 1 is good enough for this higher level. All the mistakes been made are been punished heavily. Unless the board give Warburton some decent cash to sort it I don't see anything improving.

Exactly mate - and it's not as if we can get a quick fix, even if they did put some cash up ?

Make do and mend for the next 10/12 weeks.

Worse still, on the assumption we can stay in touch, the next game v them is cunningly positioned the day before the next transfer window opens!

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1 minute ago, GWR1979 said:

Warburton needs to get back to basics,  He needs to rediscover the form from early last season and fast, he won't survive another embarrassment like today, The result today wasn't just 3 points it was a wake up call.  

Another wake up call..............

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2 hours ago, weshallnotbemoved! said:

Warburton will chuck it and Ally will be caretaker manager by Christmas if results don't improve. Need to sort whatever is wrong soon with bold decisions.

Ally :lol:

Agree with the rest 100% though. If MW doesn't make changes, then we can kiss goodbye to this season. Winning the league is gone, but finishing above the rest is easily possible if he throws his plan A shite the window and takes on a whole new approach that suits the players better,. And he needs to stop picking his team by name and go for the guys that actually want to win,.

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