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Walter smith


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11 minutes ago, Bluekev said:

We all have high expectations but we have to be realists too. The money isnt there to give us the players we need to mount a serious challenge. Is this the fault of MW? No. I realise he picks the team and it always hasnt produced the performances we expect or deserve but i think its time to put real pressure on the board and ask them where the money is they promised. I understand some of it got pumped into wages but i would like DK to be transparent and tell us the budget to buy players in Jan. I feel let down by the board more than the manager.

thats my point, you said we need to be patient, however warburton making the same mistakes week after week will only reduce the fanbase's patience, yes the board havent backed him as much as they should have, however fact is the team on the park is warburtons and its his sword to fall on

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24 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

Aye RC looked as if they had us down pat yesterday whilst they were chasing shadows.

Football is a results business.

For all the possession, dominance, chances etc we still drew and dropped another 2 points. 

If you are happy with that then fill your boots but I want rangers to be competitive and challenging for a european spot this season. 

Currently, we are miles away from that. 

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1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

thats my point, you said we need to be patient, however warburton making the same mistakes week after week will only reduce the fanbase's patience, yes the board havent backed him as much as they should have, however fact is the team on the park is warburtons and its his sword to fall on

So lets get a new manager and go through a transformation all over again? I cant see that working. We'll be sat here saying he's only been manager for a month he needs time.

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3 minutes ago, Bluekev said:

So lets get a new manager and go through a transformation all over again? I cant see that working. We'll be sat here saying he's only been manager for a month he needs time.

well thats true, warburton has seen the teams failing for over a year now and done nothing to correct them

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10 hours ago, andy500 said:

Our net transfer spend during Smith's second tenure was around £3m. Similar to Warburton's right now. 

Wages will be miles apart, but our perfomance on the park gave us extra money to spend.

From £3m Walter got us 3 league titles, multiple cups and a European final. I think that's a good return on investment.

Smith took over on the 10th of Jan 2007 and spent £2m on Kevin Thomson and a loan fee for Andy Webster in the space of 3 weeks. Whilst already having Prso, Buffel, Papac, Novo, Hemdani, Boyd, Ferguson, Burke, Hutton, Adam and McGregor at the club.

In the 2007-2008 season he had a net spend of around £10 million in the summer. So in two transfer windows Smith had a net spend of over £12m. Warburton's net spend after 2 transfer windows was around £1.85m. So yeah it's fair to say Smith got much more money to spend early on not only on transfer fees but the wage bill was far superior in those years. Whilst Mark had to build a brand new team, as pointed out above the foundations for a very good team were already at the club when Walter took over. 

Wouldn't you agree that having that £12m+ net spend figure after two transfer windows, including talented players already at the club, would be a big factor in the performances on the park to get the extra money from sales of Hutton for 9m for example?

That's not to downplay what Walter achieved, because what he did was outstanding, but he did have resources to work with which you've agreed with in other posts.

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14 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

our defence has been poor since the opening game against hibs last year, we only got away with it because we were scudding teams,

I have to agree but no one was calling for a new manager when we were skelping teams. We know the areas to be improved and whether it be through lack of choice or funds the defence has suffered but what good would changing the manager do? none IMO as its the funding thats the problem.

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37 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Smith took over on the 10th of Jan 2007 and spent £2m on Kevin Thomson and a loan fee for Andy Webster in the space of 3 weeks. Whilst already having Prso, Buffel, Papac, Novo, Hemdani, Boyd, Ferguson, Burke, Hutton, Adam and McGregor at the club.

In the 2007-2008 season he had a net spend of around £10 million in the summer. So in two transfer windows Smith had a net spend of over £12m. Warburton's net spend after 2 transfer windows was around £1.85m. So yeah it's fair to say Smith got much more money to spend early on not only on transfer fees but the wage bill was far superior in those years. Whilst Mark had to build a brand new team, as pointed out above the foundations for a very good team were already at the club when Walter took over. 

Wouldn't you agree that having that £12m+ net spend figure after two transfer windows, including talented players already at the club, would be a big factor in the performances on the park to get the extra money from sales of Hutton for 9m for example?

That's not to downplay what Walter achieved, because what he did was outstanding, but he did have resources to work with which you've agreed with in other posts.

I agree with most of your post. 

I just felt you were downplaying how well Walter did given he didn't really break the bank on tranfer fees considering the fees he recieved - and considering we were in the Champions League group stage in all but one of the seasons he started as manager.

Warburton had no chance of building a squad of the same standard on the same net spend, because he had nothing to start with. And I think he's come closer than he had any right to, personally.

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55 minutes ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:

Football is a results business.

For all the possession, dominance, chances etc we still drew and dropped another 2 points. 

If you are happy with that then fill your boots but I want rangers to be competitive and challenging for a european spot this season. 

Currently, we are miles away from that. 

At Rangers its a results driven business.

If ever there was a time to allow someone to build a foundation that will secure that success its now.

Now or never in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

but we didnt score, thats the point, yesterday we had garner up front, a focal point, and proceeded to pass it around the place, took garner off, and then proceeded to hit the byline and whip crosses in that funnily enough he's screaming out for up front

our system of retaining posession is great but only if teams come out to us and/or make a mistake at the back, as ive said in another thread i think the system can work, but you maybe, no probably need better players for it, we wont get better players by finishing 2nd all the time

Right so we didn't score. We played well enough, the players as individuals and as a team were good enough. We hit the bar and had 2 cleared off the line.

If you can find me a more unlucky side than Rangers in front of goal I'll show you a liar.

Windass burys that chance early on its a rout. No doubt in my mind about that.

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10 minutes ago, andy500 said:

I agree with most of your post. 

I just felt you were downplaying how well Walter did given he didn't really break the bank on tranfer fees considering the fees he recieved - and considering we were in the Champions League group stage in all but one of the seasons he started as manager.

Warburton had no chance of building a squad of the same standard on the same net spend, because he had nothing to start with. And I think he's come closer than he had any right to, personally.

Given what Warburtons done with what he's had to work with I think its fair to ask he be given time.

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8 minutes ago, andy500 said:

I agree with most of your post. 

I just felt you were downplaying how well Walter did given he didn't really break the bank on tranfer fees considering the fees he recieved - and considering we were in the Champions League group stage in all but one of the seasons he started as manager.

Warburton had no chance of building a squad of the same standard on the same net spend, because he had nothing to start with. And I think he's come closer than he had any right to, personally.

What about his first spell in Europe when he had lots of money to spend. He had one year he did well, but poor results the other years.

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5 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

 

Windass burys that chance early on its a rout. No doubt in my mind about that.

if someone picks up dembele at the corner last week we dont get pumped 5-1, but we did, and we didnt score yesterday, some parts were unlucky aye, others were fucking down right rotten and the fact we arent taking the half chances we have is a big concern,

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24 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

At Rangers its a results driven business.

If ever there was a time to allow someone to build a foundation that will secure that success its now.

Now or never in my opinion.

I get that. 

Let's fast forward and say we give mw the full season. The team play some great football, but results aren't consistent.

We finish 7th, miss out on an old firm game at ibrox and potential home games v Aberdeen and Hearts also. 

No European place.

But he has had a chance to lay foundations for the future. 

Would you be happy? 

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Does anyone know if Walter and Warburton are ever in communication with each other? I think Warburton could learn a lot from a conversation with Walter. Having said that it would be ludicrous and a backwards step to get Walter back. Ethel wouldn't be having it either, he's given his life to Rangers, let him put his feet up. 

 

The one thing that's baffling me at the moment is Davie Weir. His positioning and defensive composure was second to none, this was the man that played into his 40's in the top league and never looked out of place so how is our defence now so poor, is Davie maybe not that good at getting the message across or is he hampered by Warburton overall attacking philosophy?

 

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21 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

if someone picks up dembele at the corner last week we dont get pumped 5-1, but we did, and we didnt score yesterday, some parts were unlucky aye, others were fucking down right rotten and the fact we arent taking the half chances we have is a big concern,

:lol: You sound like the manager. If this if that.

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14 minutes ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:

I get that. 

Let's fast forward and say we give mw the full season. The team play some great football, but results aren't consistent.

We finish 7th, miss out on an old firm game at ibrox and potential home games v Aberdeen and Hearts also. 

No European place.

But he has had a chance to lay foundations for the future. 

Would you be happy? 

No because I believe the foundations being laid down and finishing 2nd or 3rd are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not suggesting MW be allowed to just get away with murder.

I know most people are starting to get concerned that its turning into a Le Guen situation but other than the results there's no comparison.

Under Le Guen we didn't get the football we thought we would and the team was regularly outfought. That cannot be said of this group of players. Say whatever else you want but they are not hiding or shirking.

FFS our entire back four and goalie went to Parkhead and tried to play football. How many teams, Rangers past or present, SPL or SFL, can say they had the players with the balls to do that?

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2 minutes ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:

I get that. 

Let's fast forward and say we give mw the full season. The team play some great football, but results aren't consistent.

We finish 7th, miss out on an old firm game at ibrox and potential home games v Aberdeen and Hearts also. 

No European place.

But he has had a chance to pay foundations for the future. 

Would you be happy? 

The simple answer for me is yes.

I always thought this season would be a transitional one and so far it is turning out to be so but we have to look at the situation MW inherited.

He is rebuilding a whole new club (not team) in terms of backroom staff in key positions whilst working with a limited  (in Rangers terms) budget. In little over a year he has led us to promotion, a cup final in which we defeated three Premier League teams including a memorable victory over Celtic playing some superb football on the way.

We are still a relatively young and inexperienced team with i believe its best years ahead. Mark Warburton was what the club needed last year and is still what the club needs as we attempt to modernize into a progressive forward thinking football club and not one which always looks backwards.

Tin hat on (tu) 

 

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2 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

No because I believe the foundations being laid down and finishing 2nd or 3rd are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not suggesting MW be allowed to just get away with murder.

I know most people are starting to get concerned that its turning into a Le Guen situation but other than the results there's no comparison.

Under Le Guen we didn't get the football we thought we would and the team was regularly outfought. That cannot be said of this group of players. Say whatever else you want but they are not hiding or shirking.

FFS our entire back four and goalie went to Parkhead and tried to play football. How many teams, Rangers past or present, SPL or SFL, can say they had the players with the balls to do that?

That's the point I'm making. 

The two go hand in hand. 

He is trying to change the club for the better but needs to produce on the pitch or it is all a waste. 

If we don't get results he knows he will be hunted. 

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I'm by no means a deep person (Truth be told, I'm hard as fuck), but the name "Walter Smith" instantly take me to a happy place.

I wasn't old enough to properly appreciate his achievements the first time around during the nine-in-a-row era, but that period of January, 2007 until May, 2011 will live with me for the rest of my life. What a period for the Rangers, what a time to be alive and all thanks to Walter Smith.

Back for a third time, though? I don't think so. He should be allowed to enjoy his retirement in peace; he's earned it.

Does he come back to Ibrox often? I know he had a place at Director level under one of our many boards in the lower leagues, but I don't often hear of him.

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1 minute ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:

That's the point I'm making. 

The two go hand in hand. 

He is trying to change the club for the better but needs to produce on the pitch or it is all a waste. 

If we don't get results he knows he will be hunted. 

we won't see results from the changes warburton has made at the club for a few years - we are in a transitional period where we need to be buying a mix of players with potential and some who are able to improve the squad immediately otherwise results on the park suffer and prizemoney/marketing income etc are reduced.

He either hasn't been backed to bring in the right players or he simply underestimated what would be required to be competitive in this league, I don't want to see the manager sacked, and really think long term he will do us a real turn, but we have been embarrassing so far this season. The terrible results are one thing but the level of performance has been the real killer and we are still to face some of the better teams in the league

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