Long Balls.

[ronniescu 2,965]

After Man City's victory last night, Pep said, "We competed with Barcelona, but for now we did it in a different way. We played more long balls because we are still not ready to keep the ball and play like they do.They have been playing that way for 25 years. For us, it is three or four months that we have been trying to play in a different style."

Obviously he did not want to say his players might not be as good as Barca's but surely there is a parallel with ourselves. While admiring MW's ethos, we've been pleading to with him to adjust things to take into account the calibre of player we have. And Saturday proved it beyond all doubt. Nothing wrong with long balls sometimes. Nothing wrong with individual players taking people on rather than pass, pass, pass. Maybe Pep took a leaf out of MW's book last night.

[ronniescu 2,965]

Sorry if some of you thought this was about some medical disorder.

[plumbGER 24,518]

25 minutes ago, ronniescu said:

Sorry if some of you thought this was about some medical disorder.

I did.

Don't have the problem with long balls today as i am working outside.

[Moody Blue Legend 61,387]

[scottyc06 6,915]

There's no teams that we come up against that require us to use long balls as a tactic. We should be able to outplay every team in this league with passing & movement.

[kaiser1041 9,088]

Thought this was about Clint hill

[Getstiffed 8,863]

No their players are not as good as Barcelona's at that style and the reason for that is in the Guardiola quote itself.

They've been doing it for a quarter of a century, its bred into their players from youth level and they actively look to sign players that have been through similar coaching systems.

Such a myopic view of Barcelona in this country, simply saying "they're on another planet" doesn't allow anyone to understand, and in our case attempt to replicate, how they achieve the style they play.

And no I don't believe or think that MW can have us playing that style even 1/100th as well as Barcelona do it, but for the purposes of the SPFL I think we can.

[slimjim1690 4,534]

I think that the point the OP was making is, Pep sent City out in an attempt to play Barca at their own game, but realized that it wasn't working and was clever enough to change his tactics even though it went against everything he believed in, something that we have been asking MW to consider sometimes, I'm hoping Saturday was an example of that.

[Gazza2258 478]

14 minutes ago, slimjim1690 said:

I think that the point the OP was making is, Pep sent City out in an attempt to play Barca at their own game, but realized that it wasn't working and was clever enough to change his tactics even though it went against everything he believed in, something that we have been asking MW to consider sometimes, I'm hoping Saturday was an example of that.

I agree with you - for me it is a sign of top class where you will try to make 'something' work and if it it doesn't, try something else instantly and end up getting a great win, because of the changes.  Particularly impressive as it was against a good Barca team.

With MW though, not so sure I agree with you.  I think Saturday was easily our best performance so far and hopefully that level can be sustained, but I don't think he changed the system at all.  He obviously changed the personnel and hopefully that was what was needed to implement what he wants - it certainly 'clicked' whatever it was.

But yet to see MW change tactics during a game to ensure a win.  That is going to be an issue over a season I think.

[OnwardsandUpwards 834]

14 minutes ago, slimjim1690 said:

I think that the point the OP was making is, Pep sent City out in an attempt to play Barca at their own game, but realized that it wasn't working and was clever enough to change his tactics even though it went against everything he believed in, something that we have been asking MW to consider sometimes, I'm hoping Saturday was an example of that.

I also believe that having the ability to use the long ball when appropriate is an important weapon in any teams play.Its having players with the quality and vision to be able to pick the passes.God knows we have been on the receiving end of so many over the past year.Its not compulsory to try and walk the ball into the net on every attack.

[Gazza2258 478]

2 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

I also believe that having the ability to use the long ball when appropriate is an important weapon in any teams play.Its having players with the quality and vision to be able to pick the passes.God knows we have been on the receiving end of so many over the past year.Its not compulsory to try and walk the ball into the net on every attack.

Barton? 

You're right.  How frustrating is it when they try.  Never shouted "shoot" so many times in my puff as I have this season.

[slimjim1690 4,534]

6 minutes ago, Gazza2258 said:

I agree with you - for me it is a sign of top class where you will try to make 'something' work and if it it doesn't, try something else instantly and end up getting a great win, because of the changes.  Particularly impressive as it was against a good Barca team.

With MW though, not so sure I agree with you.  I think Saturday was easily our best performance so far and hopefully that level can be sustained, but I don't think he changed the system at all.  He obviously changed the personnel and hopefully that was what was needed to implement what he wants - it certainly 'clicked' whatever it was.

But yet to see MW change tactics during a game to ensure a win.  That is going to be an issue over a season I think.

I agree re: MW, over the course of the season, I just felt that on Saturday there was a few long balls, and a couple of players willing to shoot from outside the box, but I do agree it wasn't really any major tactical change,  I do hope MW was watching City's game last night and took something from it.

[jackrfc95 4,255]

1 minute ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

I also believe that having the ability to use the long ball when appropriate is an important weapon in any teams play.Its having players with the quality and vision to be able to pick the passes.God knows we have been on the receiving end of so many over the past year.Its not compulsory to try and walk the ball into the net on every attack.

I personally think that's why Joe Garner was signed. Yes, he's not the biggest but he's decent in the air and offers something different to our other strikers.

[A.T.G 10,773]

It's all about mixing it up and not being too predictable 

[Gazza2258 478]

Just now, slimjim1690 said:

I agree re: MW, over the course of the season, I just felt that on Saturday there was a few long balls, and a couple of players willing to shoot from outside the box, but I do agree it wasn't really any major tactical change,  I do hope MW was watching City's game last night and took something from it.

You're right actually thinking about it, there was a bit more urgency to get the ball up directly and not so much trying to walk it in.

[Big Al 55 9,241]

The long ball itself is not the problem, it's an effective tactic to get the ball forward quickly. When played over the top into the channels for the strikers to turn the defenders is can be very effective.

The problem is when you plop a big striker in front of the 2 CHs and fire balls directly to his head all game hoping to create something from a knock down or flick on.

As for what Guardiola said, @Getstiffed got it absolutely spot on

[big blue Fin 3,724]

There's nothing wrong with using the long ball as a supplementary tactic, sometimes you catch the opposition off guard and get the goal. 

[PromDeAnglais 5,470]

Stealth bring back Ally thread.

[TMB 14,167]

I think playing high balls and becoming a more physical team is a way to compete with Rodgers Celtic on the cheap.  When we had Advocaat we were playing some great football and romping the league.  MON took over Celtic and gave them 3 big CBs and striker that could also play CB.  We struggled with their physicality and so did many other teams in Europe.

I think twe have the players to pull off a similar 3-5-2 system to what MON used.  We can play 3 CBs and put Garner and Waghorn next to each other.  Everytime we get a corner or set piece we can flood the box with 4 or 5 guys that are strong in the air.  When Crooks come back his physicality could be an asset too.

We're currently playing the same way as Celtic.  Same formation and playstyle.  They'll spend more on better players so perhaps it is pointless to try and compete with them this way.  If the plan was to bully them with big physical players then I'd be all for it. 

 

[Marky. 6,923]

27 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

I think playing high balls and becoming a more physical team is a way to compete with Rodgers Celtic on the cheap.  When we had Advocaat we were playing some great football and romping the league.  MON took over Celtic and gave them 3 big CBs and striker that could also play CB.  We struggled with their physicality and so did many other teams in Europe.

I think twe have the players to pull off a similar 3-5-2 system to what MON used.  We can play 3 CBs and put Garner and Waghorn next to each other.  Everytime we get a corner or set piece we can flood the box with 4 or 5 guys that are strong in the air.  When Crooks come back his physicality could be an asset too.

We're currently playing the same way as Celtic.  Same formation and playstyle.  They'll spend more on better players so perhaps it is pointless to try and compete with them this way.  If the plan was to bully them with big physical players then I'd be all for it. 

 

Formation, I doubt, will change, but I actually do like that line-up. The extra defender will help cover for the fullbacks when they go forward, the midfield stays the same, and you could have O'Halloran, Miller, Garner and Waghorn mix and match up top.

[TMB 14,167]

5 minutes ago, Marky. said:

Formation, I doubt, will change, but I actually do like that line-up. The extra defender will help cover for the fullbacks when they go forward, the midfield stays the same, and you could have O'Halloran, Garner and Waghorn mix and match up top.

Our wingers have been one of our biggest problems this season.  A 3-5-2 would allow us to ditch McKay, Miller, and Waghorn in those wide areas and leave width to the full-backs.

I don't think Warburton will change his formation and playstyle and that'll probably be what gets him sacked.  A new manager could implement a new formation and physical style and McLeish would be ideal.  It was McLeish that went up against MONs side and won so he knows the merits and cons of such systems all to well.

[cushynumber 25,178]

you have no option against Barca - playing there way against them isn't going to work. However, if we are trying to play in the Barca style - shouldn't it be the other teams that play the long ball against us?

 

how many long balls do barca play?

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

Did we play 4-3-3 against Killie?  I wasn't able to attend the game so I watched the highlights on RTV, and Tom Miller mentioned at the start of the game that he thought the formation looked slightly different.  Neither Miller or Garner looked to be playing out wide to me.

[ronniescu 2,965]

1 hour ago, slimjim1690 said:

I think that the point the OP was making is, Pep sent City out in an attempt to play Barca at their own game, but realized that it wasn't working and was clever enough to change his tactics even though it went against everything he believed in, something that we have been asking MW to consider sometimes, I'm hoping Saturday was an example of that.

Exactly this. Cheers m8.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

3 hours ago, ronniescu said:

After Man City's victory last night, Pep said, "We competed with Barcelona, but for now we did it in a different way. We played more long balls because we are still not ready to keep the ball and play like they do.They have been playing that way for 25 years. For us, it is three or four months that we have been trying to play in a different style."

Obviously he did not want to say his players might not be as good as Barca's but surely there is a parallel with ourselves. While admiring MW's ethos, we've been pleading to with him to adjust things to take into account the calibre of player we have. And Saturday proved it beyond all doubt. Nothing wrong with long balls sometimes. Nothing wrong with individual players taking people on rather than pass, pass, pass. Maybe Pep took a leaf out of MW's book last night.

If we are to build for the future then surely we have to keep at it - or we never learn - only 23 years to go till we are Barca esque