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8 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Their manager saw what was coming and changed the way his team played to stop it. You should be more worried that our manager couldn't then change us to break them down. 

Their manager changed things to not lose the game. Much easier than making changes to win a game.

Our UEFA Cup run in 2008 shows you how far a decent defensive display can get you.

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37 minutes ago, johanhentze said:

of course he sees it.. Players need to start putting chances away!!

that's the point how can we when garner etc are on the edge of the box linking play not in the middle finishing them off.

Miller played a peach of a ball in tonight 6yrd box and garner is nowhere to be seen.

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7 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Their manager saw what was coming and changed the way his team played to stop it. You should be more worried that our manager couldn't then change us to break them down. 

It's far easier to stop teams playing. Almost any manager can set up a team to stop teams playing.so Wright has the easier job. He has also assembled a squad that are tailor made for doing just that. 

In saying that I would love to see MW set us up to stop savco playing the way Walter could, but that wont happen, because the squad isn't capable of playing that way. 

For me it all comes back to defending. We can't, because MW appears not to see it as a priority. Yet sometimes you have to.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said:

We're sitting second in the league but...I don't actually think our squad is any better than the teams just under us. Two things are making our group of players punch above their weight. One is Warburton. The second is the amazing support they get at a packed Ibrox.

I know you've said that he bought them but maybe that is the highest calibre of player we can attract at the moment due to financial constraints.

Those financial constraints are perfectly valid and understandable reasons for not challenging for first place, certainly. But MW has had time to pick two squads of his own, with a budget that is multiples of anyone else in the league, yet, as you say, we're not correspondingly better than the teams immediately below us. And struggle repeatedly during games against teams who are, objectively, mince.

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2 minutes ago, Hilly86 said:

Those financial constraints are perfectly valid and understandable reasons for not challenging for first place, certainly. But MW has had time to pick two squads of his own, with a budget that is multiples of anyone else in the league, yet, as you say, we're not correspondingly better than the teams immediately below us. And struggle repeatedly during games against teams who are, objectively, mince.

You make a fair point but I don't think it's as simple as that. If we pick the market value of players of, lets say, Aberdeen and you try to build a team of EQUAL market value I don't think most managers could on the budget Mark Warburton has spent, wages included.

We had three marquee signings IMO in the summer which were Barton, Krankjaer and Garner. If you look at they three signings on paper they should arguably enhance our average group of players beyond the teams just below us in the league. Not one has worked out for a variety of reasons (which individually don't really belong on this thread) but I'm not sure we can blame Warburton.

This large budget (including wages) that dwarfs any team outside Celtic doesn't really tell a full story.

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26 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said:

Their manager changed things to not lose the game. Much easier than making changes to win a game.

Our UEFA Cup run in 2008 shows you how far a decent defensive display can get you.

Is it? 

How would we know Warburton never tries it. 

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24 minutes ago, eejay the dj said:

He would suck Tavs cock he loves him that much .

Don't know how many times I see him disappointed in Tav ,yet he finds a space for him in the team .The guy is athletic but that's it ..He is not a rightback and he certainly isn't a midfielder 

MW is the problem and I'm now not going to waver on that ,no matter the score on Saturday 

 

I'm certainly not convinced my Warburton yet but the players are not good enough.

People can say a player is not the finished article yet but I've never heard that phrase being said about a manager. Well I'm hoping Warburton isn't the finished article yet and can still learn from his mistakes so I'm willing to give him more time. Only one man could make us gain more points in the league but I wouldn't want to take that absolute legend out of retirement as he's more than earned it.

Warburton may be the problem but the players on the pitch must take most of the blame for where we are.

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Just now, Jamie0202 said:

You make a fair point but I don't think it's as simple as that. If we pick the market value of players of, lets say, Aberdeen and you try to build a team of EQUAL market value I don't think most managers could on the budget Mark Warburton has spent, wages included.

We had three marquee signings IMO in the summer which were Barton, Krankjaer and Garner. If you look at they three signings on paper they should arguably enhance our average group of players beyond the teams just below us in the league. Not one has worked out for a variety of reasons (which individually don't really belong on this thread) but I'm not sure we can blame Warburton.

This large budget (including wages) that dwarfs any team outside Celtic doesn't really tell a full story.

Indeed, I'm not one for making it a simple exercise in measuring budgets. For reasons of history and the fact that we are a much bigger club than most, it's going to be a fact that we have to pay more for players, in fees and wages. And I still have no complaint with the signings of Kranjcar and Barton.

I can't find anyone to blame other than MW for Garner's signing and the return so far. To pay so much for someone who looks so out of place (so far) for the way MW wants to play is baffling to me. There are similar signings that seem designed to fail, rather than simply not having worked out.

And I'm really struggling with the concept of MW having improved things, as a team or as individuals. He gets credit for McKay (not a universal opinion, I know), but after that? Tonight is an example; asking the same players to do something they have shown they cannot do, with no sign of them ever getting better.

 

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8 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Is it? 

How would we know Warburton never tries it. 

Is it? Yes. Of course it is. Countless opposition managers have proved that in the 33 years I've been watching Rangers.

Why would Warburton make a change in order to not lose a game? Obviously only applicable when not losing. Apart from Europe or maybe shutting up shop at the Piggary five minutes from time when would we as fans accept that?

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6 minutes ago, Hilly86 said:

Indeed, I'm not one for making it a simple exercise in measuring budgets. For reasons of history and the fact that we are a much bigger club than most, it's going to be a fact that we have to pay more for players, in fees and wages. And I still have no complaint with the signings of Kranjcar and Barton.

I can't find anyone to blame other than MW for Garner's signing and the return so far. To pay so much for someone who looks so out of place (so far) for the way MW wants to play is baffling to me. There are similar signings that seem designed to fail, rather than simply not having worked out.

And I'm really struggling with the concept of MW having improved things, as a team or as individuals. He gets credit for McKay (not a universal opinion, I know), but after that? Tonight is an example; asking the same players to do something they have shown they cannot do, with no sign of them ever getting better.

 

I take your point on Garner but I'm certain he wasn't anywhere near Warburton's first choice as he was a last minute signing when we had been linked with several strikers all summer. Arguably a panic signing?

Garner is the new Sebo. I loved Sebo for all the wrong reasons and the only good I find in Garner seem to be those very same reasons (tries like fuck and gets in the face of opposition defenders (must be a cunt to play against)). He certainly can't finish. Obviously he had a decent shot from outside the box tonight which lead to us scoring but in the six yard box he flaps with his feet like Charbonnier (great keeper) flaps at a crossed ball. He's done that since we've signed him and is such an unnatural finisher. Missed a few with his head tonight too.

Back to Mark Warburton and I understand why you would say he hasn't improved the players. Last season we started on such a high against Hibs that it would be difficult to improve upon. The truth is you're right and we haven't but in the first game under Warburton maybe the players were already playing to the best of their ability and at that point we were slightly punching above our weight due to the manager?

I don't disagree with you too much, maybe I've got a glass half full attitude tonight and I'm hoping Warburton is the answer because I don't see a genuinely better reasonable alternative.

Who do you mean in the last sentence?

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26 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said:

Is it? Yes. Of course it is. Countless opposition managers have proved that in the 33 years I've been watching Rangers.

Why would Warburton make a change in order to not lose a game? Obviously only applicable when not losing. Apart from Europe or maybe shutting up shop at the Piggary five minutes from time when would we as fans accept that?

So they was no point in us trying to change anything tonight Tommy Wright had us done up like a kipper and that was that. 

Lets hope that idea doesn't catch on with us. 

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Just now, Courtyard Bear said:

So they was no point in us trying to change anything tonight Tommy Wright had us done up like a kipper and that was that. 

Lets hope that idea doesn't catch on with us. 

The fact is the game should have been out of sight but ridiculously bad finishing cost us. After that ridiculous play in possession made us lose a goal (apart from that actual defending was decent tonight as it has been for a number of weeks). Tommy Wright takes ZERO credit for our bad finishing and our individual error while in possession. After that happens then at 1-1 yes it's much easier to shut up shop which they did.

I think you missed something in my last paragraph BTW.

Not sure which idea it is you hope doesn't catch on. If it's Warburton shutting up shop to protect a 1-1 draw at McDiarmid Park then I certainly hope that doesn't catch on. We agree.

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Our "strikers" prefer to drop deep to link play rather than make runs into the box and we do not have midfielders who look remotely like scoring more than 2 or 3 goals a season.

That and the obsession with passing back for no real reason means we will end up in a battle for a European place.

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15 minutes ago, docspiderman said:

Our "strikers" prefer to drop deep to link play rather than make runs into the box and we do not have midfielders who look remotely like scoring more than 2 or 3 goals a season.

That and the obsession with passing back for no real reason means we will end up in a battle for a European place.

That's the only way they can get involved and if they do stay where they are and not get involved a lot like dodoo did against hearts they still get slated ffs.

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4 minutes ago, Lloyd72 said:

That's the only way they can get involved and if they do stay where they are and not get involved a lot like dodoo did against hearts they still get slated ffs.

That is their preference; Miller because of his age knows his reaction time means he can no longer be a penalty box striker and like most players drop deeper as they get older.

Garner just prefers to be anywhere outside the box usually wide right and as we saw tonight does not make strikers runs or anticipates half chances or just be in a position to tuck good chances away.

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26 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said:

II don't disagree with you too much, maybe I've got a glass half full attitude tonight and I'm hoping Warburton is the answer because I don't see a genuinely better reasonable alternative.

Who do you mean in the last sentence?

I'd love Warburton to succeed, for more than the obvious benefits it would bring us. And we could definitely do much worse. For all of his faults that we find here (with good cause on occasion), he does seem to think about the game and wants to be progressive. Given what went before, it was such a relief to see the plans and changes he brought initially. It just seems a long time ago now.

The last paragraph refers to why I'm not confident about his long-term success, a lot of which will be his own doing. Tonight saw Rob Kiernan make a dick of it while taking a stupid risk with no obvious reward; this is what Kiernan does. If he has been coached to improve his technique or composure, it hasn't worked and he hasn't become better. I can't believe that clearing it upfield, however aimless, doesn't feel easier to him, yet it appears that he has been told to keep doing it. He's not alone and it would be admirable if there was any resulting progress from all that retained possession, but instead it often hurts us.

MW is also one for talking about trusting players, yet Andy Halliday is still playing as our deepest midfielder, being asked to do defensive work. He is hopeless at it. It's another bad luck story with regards to Rossiter, but where is Matt Crooks? Has he not been improved to the extent that he's not even better a defensive midfielder than Halliday? I fear many of the players are too limited or too old to be improved much now, but there's not even a sign of younger players being anywhere near good enough to replace the mediocrity.

I hope it's a matter of time and patience and wish I had your optimism.

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2 hours ago, KingKirk said:

that's the point how can we when garner etc are on the edge of the box linking play not in the middle finishing them off.

Miller played a peach of a ball in tonight 6yrd box and garner is nowhere to be seen.

Probably because Garner passed the ball to him?

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8 hours ago, FlashHarryForrester said:

Few good balls into the box but just no one there,   no midfielders getting beyond the Strikers,  no Strikers breaking their necks to get in on the end, and no opposite winger getting to the back post area..

 

Team set up just to pass and make pretty triangles.

 

No dig, No fight, No Goals

Summed up well mate, Haliday again shutting out a few tackles...Holt for the size of him is throwing it about more than 'our Andy'  .  Windass was a passage last night, Warburton picked the wrong team imo.  Our formation was a new on as well and didn't really come off...But the most significant deficiency last night was lack of desire - which I find inexcusable.  I was never the most gifted player, but I was never beaten on fight and desire to win my individual battle.  10yr ago I could do what Garner is doing - he needs to add goals to his game quick smart.

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9 hours ago, cushynumber said:

Fuck sake it's such a trite observation. 

How do we get in behind when the one thing that the managerial messiah that is tommy wright done was shut up shop immediately after keirnans  fuck up? If he can answer that great. But pointing out what he would like to happen and how to get it happening are two different things. 

Btw we have guys on the match thread actually CONGRATULATING Wright for that and telling MW to take note. What rangers manager would ever shut up shop at home with 1 hour to go? Aye that's genius.

 

90% of teams we play in Scotland will shut up shop against us, if Warburton can't change his set up to combat that when we are struggling to create clear cut chances then we will win absolutely nothing under him! 

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9 hours ago, sandyinroyalblue said:

Waghorn's second goal against Hamilton is the kind of simple goal we haven't scored enough of this season and Garner just doesn't seem to have that instinct which would result in more of these goals being scored.

That was a superb team goal, it was simple in its execution but the lead up was quality.

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