Why are you accepting this?

[tannerall 25,935]

The real reason we are accepting this JS is not because of where we came from, but because of where we ended up. 

Scroll back 4 or 5 years. We are the most successful club in Scotland, possibly the richest, and our future is full of expectation, and continuation of success. At that time we knew little else except domination of the Old Firm on a roughly equal basis (though we were always slightly ahead), had great memories of European success. We expected all that as a given. 

One year later our dreams were torpedoed and we became the lowest of the low. Thrown to the bottom ranks of Scottish football, no money, only just scraped a team to compete that first season. None of our history or heritage respected, not even given fair play, except amongst our own. The mighty had indeed fallen on bad times.

But  we never  gave up, our fans were united, 50,000 attendances at low level games. 

At this stage however we are half way between the two extremes. 

Some of our fans refuse to see that we are still climbing that rickety ladder, and demand we somehow scale the top in a miraculous leap.

But that ladder has also been extended greatly by the beasts in the east and the foundations are not solid yet. It would be a major challenge for any team to come from so far down and reach so high in such a relatively short period, and that is where we are now. That is the reality check. The ladder of progress. 

Hopefully the ladder will be steadied sufficiently this year to allow major steps of progress to be taken in the near future. Who knows the board might buy us some better progress up the ladder.

I believe we can reach that summit, but the more realistic of us know there is still a lot to be improved. That is the reality. 

The top of that ladder is not a divine right, we're not there yet,but we will get there, just a matter of how much time and money it takes. 

 

[plumbGER 24,518]

What's this "asking for a pal" patter?

Fenian talk, protestants have courage in conviction when asking a question.

[loyal 136]

I thought we played well  today we were a lot more comfortable in possession today  we just have to be a bit more direct rather than fannying about .I think that's why kenny drifts into the midfield often just out of frustration and than we don't have anybody in the box so we have to recycle it back.

We had a dead stone penalty in the first half turned down  I thought Baz and MOH  were making some good runs MOH needs a run in the team  but we desperately need a central defender too partner Hill   Kiernan and Wilson simply not good enough I prefer Hodson to Tavernier for all Tavernier offers in attack he's a liability at the back with his lapses of concentration glad in someways  he was suspended today We are just unlucky with injuries Kracjer would have been a key figure in this team plus with Garner out  and Barton just didn't work out. these  players were suppose to be the nucleus of the team.

The results now from the start of the season are better and I see a improvement in the team from the start of the season but unfortunately  this transfer window the board clearly are seating on the fence you either back him or sack him.

I want Warburton too succeed I'm hopeful that we can have a good second half of the season and try closing that gap but next season we need to be challenging  the summer transfer window Warburton needs King to get his check book out and the signings he makes if it is a cluster fuck again and the team haven't bridged that gap he needs to go

[JCDBigBear 10,824]

I tend to agree with the OP thread title.  Why is what we are watching acceptable?     Previous managers have been verbally pilloried for less.   It seems that MW is not accountable for any on-field short-comings and any criticism is frowned upon.   Warburton is a decent guy by all accounts but his football managerial skills leave much to be desired in my opinion.  

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

24 minutes ago, JCDBigBear said:

I tend to agree with the OP thread title.  Why is what we are watching acceptable?     Previous managers have been verbally pilloried for less.   It seems that MW is not accountable for any on-field short-comings and any criticism is frowned upon.   Warburton is a decent guy by all accounts but his football managerial skills leave much to be desired in my opinion.  

He's made mistakes tactically, with signings and even with loyalty to under performers.

But he has the second highest budget which is miles adrift of the bheasts and he has us second position to them. So fair enough.

Over and above that he has lost over half a dozen key players this season, particularly in midfield.

Yeah some of the play is shite. Yeah some of the results are shite. But in the bigger context we are second and through to the next round of the cup. Hopefully our board's indulgence of 2 freebies might stiffen up the midfield a bit more.

We're just into the second half of the season, we've won, folk need to simmer down a bit. This is nothing like the McCoist situation where we were rudderless and not even getting promoted despite our wage bill.

MW may or may not be the answer.

But after a cup win against an spl team is a cunt of a time to be raising the fact he should go.

[Guest]

It was completely unacceptable today.  They played us off the park and if not for the fact that Jesus is a proddy we'dve suffered a humiliating defeat today. 

Well done to Waghorn and Miller and wee Barrie and the rest for fighting for the win but why do we have to wait till were 1-0 down before we start putting the pressure on? Why are they wide open in front of our box every single time? Was the same vs the taigs last game,  can't believe that more teams haven't taken advantage of the space we give them. And then as soon as we get in the same position in their box we bottle it

I along with literally thousands of bears are all eating our words tonight.  I didn't want to re-sign Miller and I didn't want us to extend his contract,  thank fuck I was wrong because once again he's saved us.

That said we were utterly woeful and the fact that folk are spunkin their drawers over a lucky win over motherwell shows ye how pish we are. We played some fancy football at times today but we weren't in control at all until they went up.

I honestly feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't trust Warburton with a penny yet at the same time I'm angry that the board hasn't put in more cash.

Our season was saved today by a stroke of luck. We have to hope for another stroke of luck and pray that Mckay won't be sold but I reckon he'll be gone sooner than later, but we need him for next season and for the rest of this season.  We can't keep scraping results like this something has to give.

[Thewhitesettler 2,711]

4 hours ago, Junior Soprano said:

Disgraceful performance after disgraceful performance?

 

When did this become acceptable?

just askin for a pal!

We've been worse in the past, and come through it. 

I remember times in the seventies, and eighties, when we were rank, asking myself why am I putting myself through this every week? Following Rangers then was not easy, but we came through it all, put the taigs to the sword, and put the "New Firm" of Aberdeen, and Dundee Utd back in their place,won 9 IN A ROW league titles, and got to see some really great players.

We're going through a lean spell just now. The players we have, and the players we're able to sign, are not good enough to win us the title. It's torturous knowing that we can't do what we want to do this year, but our time will come again. We have to be patient. 

[markem 7,251]

16 minutes ago, Willis said:

It was completely unacceptable today.  They played us off the park and if not for the fact that Jesus is a proddy we'dve suffered a humiliating defeat today. 

Well done to Waghorn and Miller and wee Barrie and the rest for fighting for the win but why do we have to wait till were 1-0 down before we start putting the pressure on? Why are they wide open in front of our box every single time? Was the same vs the taigs last game,  can't believe that more teams haven't taken advantage of the space we give them. And then as soon as we get in the same position in their box we bottle it

I along with literally thousands of bears are all eating our words tonight.  I didn't want to re-sign Miller and I didn't want us to extend his contract,  thank fuck I was wrong because once again he's saved us.

That said we were utterly woeful and the fact that folk are spunkin their drawers over a lucky win over motherwell shows ye how pish we are. We played some fancy football at times today but we weren't in control at all until they went up.

I honestly feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't trust Warburton with a penny yet at the same time I'm angry that the board hasn't put in more cash.

Our season was saved today by a stroke of luck. We have to hope for another stroke of luck and pray that Mckay won't be sold but I reckon he'll be gone sooner than later, but we need him for next season and for the rest of this season.  We can't keep scraping results like this something has to give.

Don't agree with that Wilis mate.  Yup, we were shit and I truly don't understand why some of our blatant issues are going unaddressed however they never played us of the park, absolutely not.  Even as poor as we were, we were better than them (imo)

Not claiming any glory from that by the way, they are not out bench mark  

[Guest]

Why do folk keep going on about the fuckin 70's? 

It's 2017 and we have a multi millionaire in charge. There's no excuse for this pish

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, markem said:

Don't agree with that Wilis mate.  Yup, we were shit and I truly don't understand why some of our blatant issues are going unaddressed however they never played us of the park, absolutely not.  Even as poor as we were, we were better than them (imo)

Not claiming any glory from that by the way, they are not out bench mark  

Their keeper had 2 saves before they scored.  Played off the park might be a very slight exaggeration but we were not the better team today

[markem 7,251]

16 minutes ago, Willis said:

Their keeper had 2 saves before they scored.  Played off the park might be a very slight exaggeration but we were not the better team today

Fair enough, Id be a fucking idiot to get into a debate about who was more shit.  Suppose I was just making the point that they were not good, at all.

To be honest buddy I just cannot get my head around why we have stopped doing the things that made us look like a good outfit in the early stages of MW tenure.  Yup I understand we have went up level and all that however that should make no difference whatsoever on how hard we work, movement off the ball etc.  

Off on one now (and I digress), however I genuinely do not understand why we have stopped that stuff    

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 hours ago, JCDBigBear said:

I tend to agree with the OP thread title.  Why is what we are watching acceptable?     Previous managers have been verbally pilloried for less.   It seems that MW is not accountable for any on-field short-comings and any criticism is frowned upon.   Warburton is a decent guy by all accounts but his football managerial skills leave much to be desired in my opinion.  

The simple fact of the matter is too many fans have lost their appetite for success and have no ambition anymore.

They have mentally-developed little comfort zones for themselves instead of facing reality and asking the questions that need to be asked. 

It's easier for them than criticising or asking serious questions. They've done all the mental gymnastics and persuaded themselves that things were worse under McCoist or this is our first year back in the top flight and we are doing well because we are second (like we are a Gretna or Livingston that's been promoted for the first ever time and exceeding all expectations)

It's similar to what some mentally weak people do when they've had a traumatic experience in their life - they block it out and their mind creates a sub-concious alternative reality for them ... the comparison is the same because that traumatic experience is 2012, Ally McCoist, the custodians in charge and everything that's followed from that. 

There was no good reason and I repeat this NO GOOD REASON why we couldn't have handed Celtic a title challenge our first season back (before anyone says it I know we wouldn't be top right now as Celtic have only dropped 2 points in the league all season but I said a title challenge .. not to be 22 points behind half way through the season and lost 3 Old Firm games) as We have millionaire custodians who promised us 30-50 million to get us "back where we belong", record season ticket holders and the only major debt loans to be repaid to said custodians in the form of shares when the time is right.

So someone please tell me why it's unrealistic all of sudden to have expected success (baring in mind selling season tickets and a card display going for 55 campaign) ... the narrative has changed with these people who I mentioned at the start with their mental gymnastics because again it's easier than reality for them.

They put a misguided sense of loyalty above the actual success of our football club.

People like Club1872 and our match day voice like the ultra's who organise displays and get the voices heard are every bit as guilty too considering how vocal they were before. 

[Muz333 359]

I don't think many of us are accepting this? This forum is, quite rightly so, filled with negativity regarding our performances for the best part of a year now. Unfortunately we can't improve our manager, players or investment from the board so just take a win when we get one.

[hammer93 15,057]

51 minutes ago, Thewhitesettler said:

We've been worse in the past, and come through it. 

I remember times in the seventies, and eighties, when we were rank, asking myself why am I putting myself through this every week? Following Rangers then was not easy, but we came through it all, put the taigs to the sword, and put the "New Firm" of Aberdeen, and Dundee Utd back in their place,won 9 IN A ROW league titles, and got to see some really great players.

We're going through a lean spell just now. The players we have, and the players we're able to sign, are not good enough to win us the title. It's torturous knowing that we can't do what we want to do this year, but our time will come again. We have to be patient. 

Far to logical for the younger impatient fan to understand

I grew up going to Ibrox in the early 80s when £1 got you into the govan stand, the team was crap and the ground was empty, their were protests against two of the greatest Rangers of my lifetime.....John Grieg and Jock Wallace but guess what, times changed and the glory days came back.......it didn't happen overnight but it did happen, I've seen the good days as well as the bad days...it's part and parcel of being a bear.

[Thewhitesettler 2,711]

5 minutes ago, hammer93 said:

Far to logical for the younger impatient fan to understand

I grew up going to Ibrox in the early 80s when £1 got you into the govan stand, the team was crap and the ground was empty, their were protests against two of the greatest Rangers of my lifetime.....John Grieg and Jock Wallace but guess what, times changed and the glory days came back.......it didn't happen overnight but it did happen, I've seen the good days as well as the bad days...it's part and parcel of being a bear.

exactly mate! 

[hammer93 15,057]

8 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

The simple fact of the matter is too many fans have lost their appetite for success and have no ambition anymore.

They have mentally-developed little comfort zones for themselves instead of facing reality and asking the questions that need to be asked. 

It's easier for them than criticising or asking serious questions. They've done all the mental gymnastics and persuaded themselves that things were worse under McCoist or this is our first year back in the top flight and we are doing well because we are second (like we are a Gretna or Livingston that's been promoted for the first ever time and exceeding all expectations)

It's similar to what some mentally weak people do when they've had a traumatic experience in their life - they block it out and their mind creates a sub-concious alternative reality for them ... the comparison is the same because that traumatic experience is 2012, Ally McCoist, the custodians in charge and everything that's followed from that. 

There was no good reason and I repeat this NO GOOD REASON why we couldn't have handed Celtic a title challenge our first season back (before anyone says it I know we wouldn't be top right now as Celtic have only dropped 2 points in the league all season but I said a title challenge .. not to be 22 points behind half way through the season and lost 3 Old Firm games) as We have millionaire custodians who promised us 30-50 million to get us "back where we belong", record season ticket holders and the only major debt loans to be repaid to said custodians in the form of shares when the time is right.

So someone please tell me why it's unrealistic all of sudden to have expected success (baring in mind selling season tickets and a card display going for 55 campaign) ... the narrative has changed with these people who I mentioned at the start with their mental gymnastics because again it's easier than reality for them.

They put a misguided sense of loyalty above the actual success of our football club.

People like Club1872 and our match day voice like the ultra's who organise displays and get the voices heard are every bit as guilty too considering how vocal they were before. 

Your first point is valid to the extent that the gates this season have been superb considering we are playing for 2nd place, like I said in another post mediocrity was treated by fans when they voted with their feet, what I do take issue is with where we are just now, I honestly believed after last seasons Scottish cup semi that the gap was minimal....the tims acted fast and moved out Delia and spent a decent amount of money to make the gap a lot bigger than it was in April, their is no magic wand or billionaire at this moment in time to change it....the quandary is? if in ops original post and we don't accept it and vote with our feet....where will that put the club in the future?

[K.A.I 36,183]

4 minutes ago, hammer93 said:

Your first point is valid to the extent that the gates this season have been superb considering we are playing for 2nd place, like I said in another post mediocrity was treated by fans when they voted with their feet, what I do take issue is with where we are just now, I honestly believed after last seasons Scottish cup semi that the gap was minimal....the tims acted fast and moved out Delia and spent a decent amount of money to make the gap a lot bigger than it was in April, their is no magic wand or billionaire at this moment in time to change it....the quandary is? if in ops original post and we don't accept it and vote with our feet....where will that put the club in the future?

I don't mean voting with their feet. You need to turn out and support the team in numbers regardless of form, results, lies and broken promises.

I'm talking about the same people who put pressure on the previous lots put the same pressures on King and Warburton ... even the players (like the less time Tweeting banner) ... doing nothing shouldn't be an option. 

I don't mean this cheeky either mate and I like both you and WhiteSettler but your comments about how things were in the 70's and early-mid 80's under Greg and Wallace is the same sort of mental gymnastics I was talking about ... because you seen bad times then your not as worried about now ... I've seen bad times too ... McCoist's teams and then McDowall and McCall in the lower leagues were a million times worse than Greg's and Wallace's teams so I can't buy that logic at all. 

[hammer93 15,057]

6 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I don't mean voting with their feet. You need to turn out and support the team in numbers regardless of form, results, lies and broken promises.

I'm talking about the same people who put pressure on the previous lots put the same pressures on King and Warburton ... even the players (like the less time Tweeting banner) ... doing nothing shouldn't be an option. 

I don't mean this cheeky either mate and I like both you and WhiteSettler but your comments about how things were in the 70's and early-mid 80's under Greg and Wallace is the same sort of mental gymnastics I was talking about ... because you seen bad times then your not as worried about now ... I've seen bad times too ... McCoist's teams and then McDowall and McCall in the lower leagues were a million times worse than Greg's and Wallace's teams so I can't buy that logic at all. 

I think what we are getting at is.... now very Rangers fan has seen bad times.....i.e as you say from the McCoist days, if you are a young fan growing just now then it must be tough.....but tough it out they must, because kai you know when it's good it's good, the majority of my greatest times in life revolve around Rangers and the success stories.....that's why I'm philosophical that the good times will return.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, hammer93 said:

I think what we are getting at is.... now very Rangers fan has seen bad times.....i.e as you say from the McCoist days, if you are a young fan growing just now then it must be tough.....but tough it out they must, because kai you know when it's good it's good, the majority of my greatest times in life revolve around Rangers and the success stories.....that's why I'm philosophical that the good times will return.

That's the thing mate I honestly believe that if we don't do something (and soon) then the good times won't be back.

It's getting harder to do the more leagues Celtic win and the more Champions League group stages they appear in and bank 25 million each time and each big player they sell for over 10 million. They usually sell one a season. 

It's not enough to just say take the good with the bad and when the good times return they will be sweeter. The framework has changed. 

Our brand is damaged enough - something needs to happen and fast IMO. 

[hammer93 15,057]

4 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

That's the thing mate I honestly believe that if we don't do something (and soon) then the good times won't be back.

It's getting harder to do the more leagues Celtic win and the more Champions League group stages they appear in and bank 25 million each time and each big player they sell for over 10 million. They usually sell one a season. 

It's not enough to just say take the good with the bad and when the good times return they will be sweeter. The framework has changed. 

Our brand is damaged enough - something needs to happen and fast IMO. 

I'm with you on that, lady luck has played its part with the tims this season, they  paid through the nose for  Rogers and scraped into the group stages but the reality is it played dividends and we can't afford them getting in there again next season, I don't want to be playing catch up but I'm always hopeful we will get there.

[markem 7,251]

28 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

The simple fact of the matter is too many fans have lost their appetite for success and have no ambition anymore.

They have mentally-developed little comfort zones for themselves instead of facing reality and asking the questions that need to be asked. 

It's easier for them than criticising or asking serious questions. They've done all the mental gymnastics and persuaded themselves that things were worse under McCoist or this is our first year back in the top flight and we are doing well because we are second (like we are a Gretna or Livingston that's been promoted for the first ever time and exceeding all expectations)

It's similar to what some mentally weak people do when they've had a traumatic experience in their life - they block it out and their mind creates a sub-concious alternative reality for them ... the comparison is the same because that traumatic experience is 2012, Ally McCoist, the custodians in charge and everything that's followed from that. 

There was no good reason and I repeat this NO GOOD REASON why we couldn't have handed Celtic a title challenge our first season back (before anyone says it I know we wouldn't be top right now as Celtic have only dropped 2 points in the league all season but I said a title challenge .. not to be 22 points behind half way through the season and lost 3 Old Firm games) as We have millionaire custodians who promised us 30-50 million to get us "back where we belong", record season ticket holders and the only major debt loans to be repaid to said custodians in the form of shares when the time is right.

So someone please tell me why it's unrealistic all of sudden to have expected success (baring in mind selling season tickets and a card display going for 55 campaign) ... the narrative has changed with these people who I mentioned at the start with their mental gymnastics because again it's easier than reality for them.

They put a misguided sense of loyalty above the actual success of our football club.

People like Club1872 and our match day voice like the ultra's who organise displays and get the voices heard are every bit as guilty too considering how vocal they were before. 

On the ground that you say 'they' you mean others/not you.  So what questions are you asking? to who..when/how? - I know you won't separate yourself from the 'mentally weak' based exclusively on posts on here so I ask in all sincerity (because I do understand the reality we face) what is it that you are doing that others should be? it can't be a whinge on here that differentiates? 

I'm not taking the piss, I know how you feel about our club (that's absolutely clear) I asked the same of the OP who's thread title was 'why are you accepting this' - what is that we we should be doing? - I hand on heart aspire to make a difference however not sure how - moaning on a forum certainly isn't separating those that make a difference to those that don't .

 

 

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

6 hours ago, Junior Soprano said:

Same kind of protests we did against Ashley 

Aye, let's stop buying jerseys.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, markem said:

On the ground that you say 'they' you mean others/not you.  So what questions are you asking? to who..when/how? - I know you won't separate yourself from the 'mentally weak' based exclusively on posts on here so I ask in all sincerity (because I do understand the reality we face) what is it that you are doing that others should be? it can't be a whinge on here that differentiates? 

I'm not taking the piss, I know how you feel about our club (that's absolutely clear) I asked the same of the OP who's thread title was 'why are you accepting this' - what is that we we should be doing? - I hand on heart aspire to make a difference however not sure how - moaning on a forum certainly isn't separating those that make a difference to those that don't .

 

 

What can your average fan do (with the exception of the people who could influence like the Club1872 members and ultras with their banners/displays) apart from simply be honest with yourself?

If we are honest with ourselves then watch the narrative change and spread far and wide ... if we get complete 100% agreement on what's needed as a fanbase on forums then social media media pages, then phone in's and newspaper articles instead of making excuses then watch pressure start to mount to do something. 

If Dave King for example, or Mark Waburton read this forum there would be little urgency to really make moves and get us to where we want to be because 50% of the forum trots out bullshit about not spending what we don't have and that Warburton's hands are tied/he's a good manager ... I think people seriously under-estimate how things could change for the better with a bit of honesty starting from within and watch it spread. 

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

3 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

What can your average fan do (with the exception of the people who could influence like the Club1872 members and ultras with their banners/displays) apart from simply be honest with yourself?

If we are honest with ourselves then watch the narrative change and spread far and wide ... if we get complete 100% agreement on what's needed as a fanbase on forums then social media media pages, then phone in's and newspaper articles instead of making excuses then watch pressure start to mount to do something. 

If Dave King for example, or Mark Waburton read this forum there would be little urgency to really make moves and get us to where we want to be because 50% of the forum trots out bullshit about not spending what we don't have and that Warburton's hands are tied/he's a good manager ... I think people seriously under-estimate how things could change for the better with a bit of honesty starting from within and watch it spread. 

Inadvertently  or maybe intentionally,  MW is clearly showing there's no money around.

He states that he'd reluctantly sell McKay on condition that the income is put back into the team, (& not the club).

Maybe it's time dk openly stated what's going on and asked for donations (refuckingpayable of course, the fucking same as him) to get us moving up the ladder.

I'd give - but it needs many more than what I've got to make a difference.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, WATP-FOREVER said:

Inadvertently  or maybe intentionally,  MW is clearly showing there's no money around.

He states that he'd reluctantly sell McKay on condition that the income is put back into the team, (& not the club).

Maybe it's time dk openly stated what's going on and asked for donations (refuckingpayable of course, the fucking same as him) to get us moving up the ladder.

I'd give - but it needs many more than what I've got to make a difference.

I agree but having no money to spend is only 50% of Warburton's problems. King's lies seems to get him off the hook for a lot of other failings of his - this is what I mean about being honest with ourselves. 

We need to be honest across the board - he's not been backed with money but O'Halloran for example at 500k - we've not beat St Johnstone or Ross County in 4 attempts this season ... do you think they spend 500k on players between them in 5 years? ... if Aberdeen win their game in hand they go second - what's their budget and player spend? I think their record transfer fee was Ricky Gillis from St Mirren or that guy from Oldham the same season in 1995 for a million or something.