Bates

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,718]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I honestly couldnt agree less with this point on tonights showing.

I'm not looking to change your opinion.

But for me a CH dominates, especially in the air, and when the chance comes in the tackle.

He makes a CF worry more about him than concentrate on the game.

He controls the CF and pulls him out of position rather than the other way around.

Our two CH played the same forward tonight and one of them achieved most of the above. It wasn't Bates.

[Cedrick 8,048]

Didn't put a foot wrong 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said:

He passed a diagonal ball right to one of their players; well, you did ask. If you think he is a good enough CB for Rangers then I will leave you, happily, to your opinion. 

I just dont agree with two of the points on this thread so far.

1. He does not show any ability to improve. - I thought he improved massively in the few games that he had last season. Was very dodgy looking to begin with and then came onto a game. Think there were a few clean sheets in there. Tonight I thought he had his best game for us IMO. This surely fits the definition of improvement?

2. He does not use his physicality. I seen him bully their forwards a good few times tonight and I may be mistaken here, but thought that he threatened with a header at the other end.

I just think that this boy has had some haters from some dodgy reports in the youths and the fact he came from a fairly shitty club.

Like I say, I dont think he is a first choice for us, but im happy with having him as a 4th choice. I also doubt he will go on to become a great.

[Inigo 32,526]

Thought he was alright. Did struggle to impose himself in a few aerial challenges but I don't see any reason for him to have been heavily critical of him based on that display.

Hard to judge a centre half in a game like that, but in general still have my doubts about him.

[stewaj3 1,446]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I just dont agree with two of the points on this thread so far.

1. He does not show any ability to improve. - I thought he improved massively in the few games that he had last season. Was very dodgy looking to begin with and then came onto a game. Think there were a few clean sheets in there. Tonight I thought he had his best game for us IMO. This surely fits the definition of improvement?

2. He does not use his physicality. I seen him bully their forwards a good few times tonight and I may be mistaken here, but thought that he threatened with a header at the other end.

I just think that this boy has had some haters from some dodgy reports in the youths and the fact he came from a fairly shitty club.

Like I say, I dont think he is a first choice for us, but im happy with having him as a 4th choice. I also doubt he will go on to become a great.

The boy up top for them was a big difficult forward to bully. An international player too, not a world beater but he's probably to the standard of an spl striker and i dont remember him having a shot on goal?

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,718]

2 minutes ago, stewaj3 said:

Ok maybe its not the be all and end all, if he had 2 major fuck ups and fod had kept us in the game then I'd understand criticism, but thought the defence did fine, kept a clean sheet, handled the big guy up top relatively well. Not really sure he needs criticised after that. 

How did waljace and tav play?

Only our new CH gets a pass mark from me defensively.

Sooner Bruno gets here the better.

Know nothing of mccrorie but.id rather A Wilson than Bates as back up.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

4 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I just dont agree with two of the points on this thread so far.

1. He does not show any ability to improve. - I thought he improved massively in the few games that he had last season. Was very dodgy looking to begin with and then came onto a game. Think there were a few clean sheets in there. Tonight I thought he had his best game for us IMO. This surely fits the definition of improvement?

2. He does not use his physicality. I seen him bully their forwards a good few times tonight and I may be mistaken here, but thought that he threatened with a header at the other end.

I just think that this boy has had some haters from some dodgy reports in the youths and the fact he came from a fairly shitty club.

Like I say, I dont think he is a first choice for us, but im happy with having him as a 4th choice. I also doubt he will go on to become a great.

I just don't think he is ready for the type of games we could come up against during this season; league deciders, cup finals, I don't think he has the all round CD game that I could trust in a Rangers jersey. He lacks composure; has no authority in that position, which is possibly the most crucial in any team; and his distribution is non existent. I would hope for better as a back up, and I hope McCrorie is more of an option in future, because in him I see potential to be a very good player.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

I'm not looking to change your opinion.

But for me a CH dominates, especially in the air, and when the chance comes in the tackle.

He makes a CF worry more about him than concentrate on the game.

He controls the CF and pulls him out of position rather than the other way around.

Our two CH played the same forward tonight and one of them achieved most of the above. It wasn't Bates.

I honestly thought they both achieved that.

Tav was the weak link and a couple of mistakes in the second half from him gave the attackers a couple of sniffs at goal. Maybe it was because they came from this side of the defense that some apportion some of the blame to Bates?

[Inigo 32,526]

Tav was shit. Wallace was decent first half I thought but shit second.

[ronniescu 2,970]

13 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

He jumps lower than his standing position.

He has no physicality about him.

He appears lethargic in his general style.

He gets pulled out if position very easily.

He got caught napping and cost a chance against us. Jack bawled him out.

Simple passes he always plays behind a player's position.

He exudes worry not authority.

He is shite.

You're a mind-reader. Him & the two "fullbacks" have to go.

[stewaj3 1,446]

Just now, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

How did waljace and tav play?

Only our new CH gets a pass mark from me defensively.

Sooner Bruno gets here the better.

Know nothing of mccrorie but.id rather A Wilson than Bates as back up.

Averagely, both tried to push on but were up against a team who put 10 men behind the ball. Jack did a great job protecting when they were forward. The problem. Though is again we are too predictable. When wallace or tav overlap, no one else moves forward, so they are easy to mark. If we had midfielders who burst a gut to get behind the defence gaps would appear and we'd score more. 

Bruno would have made no difference tonight. 

Neither would wilson or mccrorie. 

[scottyc06 6,915]

He's fucking 20 years old!! 

People talking like he should be the finished article! He's clearly not going to be our first choice centre half this season but think he's more than adequate cover! 

Honestly can't win, people shout about bringing youth through & here's a young Scottish centre half, who by all accounts hasn't put a foot wrong, being used as cover for our first team and he's being slaughtered! 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,718]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I honestly thought they both achieved that.

Tav was the weak link and a couple of mistakes in the second half from him gave the attackers a couple of sniffs at goal. Maybe it was because they came from this side of the defense that some apportion some of the blame to Bates?

Mate I was at Killie and thought him a Raith Rivers calibre player then and nothings changed my opinion so far.

I was a defender in my day, I tend to watch that area more closely than others and he really just doesn't look a player, never mind a Rangers player.

It's not about age either as A Wilson played and appeared assured, confident and was imo the more effective of the two.

I hope he becomes 5/5 in terms of defensive options sooner rather than later.

[MarcusDa Beasley 1,035]

Couple of mis-timed aerial challenges but he's clearly been told to cut out the long diagonals and just pass it 10 yards to Cardoso. Tried it once with predictable results. Bit early to say he has no potential, looks like he's improving to me, albeit v..e..r...y slowly.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

3 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

I just don't think he is ready for the type of games we could come up against during this season; league deciders, cup finals, I don't think he has the all round CD game that I could trust in a Rangers jersey. He lacks composure; has no authority in that position, which is possibly the most crucial in any team; and his distribution is non existent. I would hope for better as a back up, and I hope McCrorie is more of an option in future, because in him I see potential to be a very good player.

Have you seen McCrorie play much or are you going off the back of reports? For the record, I hope you are right and that McCrorie comes in and cements a place in the team, but other than some positive reports I have heard, I dont know how good he might be.

I think my main point is that Bates may not be perfect, but he is 4th choice in his position.

Tav and Wallace who I have been a big fan of, were a bit disappointing to say the least. They are our first choice in these roles. Personally, I think that competition for these roles would be a far higher priority than replacing Bates.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,718]

2 minutes ago, stewaj3 said:

Averagely, both tried to push on but were up against a team who put 10 men behind the ball. Jack did a great job protecting when they were forward. The problem. Though is again we are too predictable. When wallace or tav overlap, no one else moves forward, so they are easy to mark. If we had midfielders who burst a gut to get behind the defence gaps would appear and we'd score more. 

Bruno would have made no difference tonight. 

Neither would wilson or mccrorie. 

If you thought both full backs were as good as average I'll leave it there as my expectations and demands of a player differ quite significantly from yours.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Mate I was at Killie and thought him a Raith Rivers calibre player then and nothings changed my opinion so far.

I was a defender in my day, I tend to watch that area more closely than others and he really just doesn't look a player, never mind a Rangers player.

It's not about age either as A Wilson played and appeared assured, confident and was imo the more effective of the two.

I hope he becomes 5/5 in terms of defensive options sooner rather than later.

Agreed, this notion that a player automatically becomes better as he plays more, in terms of natural ability, is wrong.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Have you seen McCrorie play much or are you going off the back of reports? For the record, I hope you are right and that McCrorie comes in and cements a place in the team, but other than some positive reports I have heard, I dont know how good he might be.

I think my main point is that Bates may not be perfect, but he is 4th choice in his position.

Tav and Wallace who I have been a big fan of, were a bit disappointing to say the least. They are our first choice in these roles. Personally, I think that competition for these roles would be a far higher priority than replacing Bates.

I'm sure I first saw McCrorie playing as a right back and was impressed instantly. I've subsequently seen him now and again and he looks to be potentially a top player in the future. Wallace I am a big fan of, not just for what he gives on the park, but he worries me this season. I don't think he looks in his best shape either; maybe that was the effect of being on the sidelines, and he looked very remote at times tonight.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,718]

5 minutes ago, scottyc06 said:

He's fucking 20 years old!! 

People talking like he should be the finished article! He's clearly not going to be our first choice centre half this season but think he's more than adequate cover! 

Honestly can't win, people shout about bringing youth through & here's a young Scottish centre half, who by all accounts hasn't put a foot wrong, being used as cover for our first team and he's being slaughtered! 

Liam Lindsay that played very well in the same position for PT moved to Barnsley recently. 22.

Kieran Tierney. International with CL experience. 20.

If you're good enough you're old enough. Yet when he's not good enough, but is deemed "adequate cover" age is used as a defence.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Liam Lindsay that played very well in the same position for PT moved to Barnsley recently. 22.

Kieran Tierney. International with CL experience. 20.

If you're good enough you're old enough. Yet when he's not good enough, but is deemed "adequate cover" age is used as a defence.

I think he is good enough to be classed as adequate cover for our 4th choice center back at the moment though.

When we pad out the other priority positions in the squad, then of course we should look to improve when we can. Hell, when we improve enough, we should be looking to improve the players who we currently consider to be good enough to start!

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I think he is good enough to be classed as adequate cover for our 4th choice center back at the moment though.

When we pad out the other priority positions in the squad, then of course we should look to improve when we can. Hell, when we improve enough, we should be looking to improve the players who we currently consider to be good enough to start!

A player like Pena was badly missed tonight, and I don't blame Jack and Rossiter for that, but we lacked creativity tonight, apart from Kranjcar. Pena, if he is as good as the clips we have seen, could be the answer to our midfield issue of not being creative enough.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,718]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I think he is good enough to be classed as adequate cover for our 4th choice center back at the moment though.

When we pad out the other priority positions in the squad, then of course we should look to improve when we can. Hell, when we improve enough, we should be looking to improve the players who we currently consider to be good enough to start!

It's all about opinions.

I hear that many at the club are bemused that Bates has progressed ahead of others. To be honest, I agree.

I think he'll end up at the likes of a Livingston or something. And be average there.

Time will tell.

[onefootwillie 1,518]

He did well enough and looked more confident than last season . He won't be first choice but is well capable back up . As a few people have  said he is way better than Kiernan 

[King Jela 20,361]

Hasn't really put a foot wrong since getting his first team call up but we need something to moan about, so fuck off ya ginger bastard!!

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

A player like Pena was badly missed tonight, and I don't blame Jack and Rossiter for that, but we lacked creativity tonight, apart from Kranjcar. Pena, if he is as good as the clips we have seen, could be the answer to our midfield issue of not being creative enough.

Was thinking that myself.

Im struggling to think what our actual starting lineup will be should the signings of Dorrans and Walker go through.

 

Midfield of something like :-

Jack

Candias (spelling?) - Dorrans - Walker

Pena

Meaning Holt, Niko and Dalcio would drop to the bench. Although I think Pedro sees Niko as a key player.