Planned Incompetence

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

1 hour ago, The Godfather said:

The refs in general are embarrassing.

Did anyone see Livingston against Dundee United when Moshni basically slapped the ball away and the ref stood 2 feet away watching it happen but fuck all.

 

Aye, watched it. How that wee rat MacDonald stayed on the park after his waist high tackle I’ll never know. Not even sure if he got booked.

[Spliffy 643]

There's been countless this season, not seen mentioned much though is the first old firm game where Morelos is denied a penalty. If it was at the other end you can guarantee it gets given.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

28 minutes ago, Bakbear said:

I would love to see @julescotia bringing his video making skills into focus on the poor calls this season. A video montage of the bad calls and shocking challenges would be very interesting. 

Would go as far letting us see the ones we might have gotten the rub of the green with, just so all those it evens itself out wallopers can see the difference. 

[Jamie0202 12,220]

I'm of the mind that the refs treat us differently but also treat celtic differently too. How many of us on here say that Brown is let off more than other players? That fact has even been highlighted this season by a professional manager (Levein). During our game on Sunday when we were in front I kept flicking the channel back and forth to their game to see if there wa s any chance if Aberdeen dropping points which would have given us 2nd. Brown made a tackle which would see 99 players out of 100 get booked but he was let off as it would have been his 2nd of the game. Even the commentary were saying how lucky he was. Sorry but it's not luck when those decisions consistently go that way for the same player. Wasn't a player also sent off recently for a tackle on Brown which was later rescinded?

I don't really watch them too much so don't know if decisions in their games have evened themselves out but just off the top of my head they've had at least 4 penalty decisions go in favour of them while we've had at least 2 for deliberate hand ball in recent months against Martin which he could fuck all about. The 4 decisions for them were the one the night before we played Hibs in that Beaton game. Then there were 2, 2 weeks in a row involving McGregor then Sinclair. Sinclair even admitted he more or less dived. Then there was the Morelos penalty which was denied. That's without really seeing them.

People might say fuck them, why mention them. Well if there genuinely is a bias (and I believe there is as it's as plain as the nose on your face) then decisions that they get will have just as much bearing on the decisions that go against us if we are to win the league. You could also argue that this season there have been enough points dropped by us due to incorrect refereeing decisions and enough points gained by them again due to incorrect refereeing decisions that we could have won the league this season. Not that I think we're good enough or that they would have dropped as many points in the last few games but the numbers and the positions in the league all add up.

We're bad enough and have enough problems of our own without having to try and win this league with one hand tied behind our backs due to incompetent refereeing. Hopefully as others have said with Gerrard coming in and the increased scrutiny that will bring on the refs we will get a fairer crack of the whip.

[ForeverAndEver 71,369]

58 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

Who the fuck is daviesleftpeg

An Irish model

[SkylineBlue 23,168]

2 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

If the refs truly are just incompetent, how the hell have we not benefitted from this incompetence more, this season has seen an unbelievable amount of game changing decisions go against us while i struggle to think of a single decision that we got that was wrong, which changed a game in our favour

From the opening league game to the final league game refs have made wrong decisions that could or have been game changers 

When does it stop being incompetence and start being something else, do we need another season like this official wise

Look at ryan jacks red card at Pittodrie, look at scott allen's tackle at the weekend

Bates got away with a blatant handball against hibs. Stonewall penalty and we benefited from shite refereeing there.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

12 hours ago, eskbankloyal said:

There's a psychology element to this as well though. 

Dallas knows that if he sends Allan off, in that environment that Lennon will slaughter him at the time & probably after the game - regardless of the decision being right. At the same time, he knows that Jimmy Nicholl wont do a thing about it, nor will Rangers as a club. 

Until the club get a grip & start highlighting this stuff in press conferences (and the manager/players are sufficiently briefed on the decision, why it was wrong etc) it's not going to change. 

Are you agreeing with me then but staying in the safe from ridicule camp ??

You are one rude fuck eskbsnk 

 

[Paulbrian11 432]

All this ref stuff always has a large dollop of confirmation bias.  

 

 

[Wullies_bowly_legs 3,779]

3 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

 

We don't complain as a club so it's easier to be swayed against us than for instance the scum or hivs who challenge every perceived injustice.

The only way to see if it changes is for the club to challenge every single time there's a serious wrong doing or match affecting incorrect decision. See if all of a sudden they start balancing out or going in our favour where they should. I'm pretty sure we all know what the outcome would be .... which suggests it is more than incompetence.

This 100%. Even if there is/isn't a bias against us, what is wrong with using every honest means at our disposal to get fair treatment. Any ref that knows they might  be called out to the SFA or the media for poor decision making or incompetence, will be trying harder to ensure they perform fairly and correctly.

In any walk of life if you know your boss or company will be on your case for incompetence you'll take more care in your job. All the refs know that lemmon and brenda will bitch about everything, deserved or not to the media, so I'm pretty sure although not maybe biased, they will make the decision that causes them least grief.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,498]

1 hour ago, SkylineBlue said:

Bates got away with a blatant handball against hibs. Stonewall penalty and we benefited from shite refereeing there.

Was that the same game we were denied a stonewall penalty in the first half for a blatant shirt pull on either bates or mccrorie? 

[Inigo 32,526]

2 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Was that the same game we were denied a stonewall penalty in the first half for a blatant shirt pull on either bates or mccrorie? 

Yes.

[Guardian 4,281]

Its not a conspiracy.

Book a Hibs player....Lemon will challenge it publicly and create a shit storm.

Book a celtic player Rodgers and Liewell will challenge it publicly and create a shit storm.

Book a Rangers player......No noise, no challenge......nothing happens.....no fallout.

Until we follow these things up, refs dont have to think twice about booking a Rangers player or not booking the opposition. Its not a conspiracy, the other teams now have refs making decisions they know they will have to justify later. They've made it not worth the bother and we should too.

Our "turn the other cheek policy" just gets that one slapped anaw.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,620]

5 hours ago, Guardian said:

Its not a conspiracy.

Book a Hibs player....Lemon will challenge it publicly and create a shit storm.

Book a celtic player Rodgers and Liewell will challenge it publicly and create a shit storm.

Book a Rangers player......No noise, no challenge......nothing happens.....no fallout.

Until we follow these things up, refs dont have to think twice about booking a Rangers player or not booking the opposition. Its not a conspiracy, the other teams now have refs making decisions they know they will have to justify later. They've made it not worth the bother and we should too.

Our "turn the other cheek policy" just gets that one slapped anaw.

So there's a difference in how referees treat teams?. How would you define that best in a single or few words?

Bias? Subconscious differentiating decisions? Cheating?

Because if you're saying refs go and and consciously treat teams differently, and we are one of the teams who suffer most from their decision making, the that is corrupt. As it is conversely for the team deliberately allowed to benefit from decision making.

If refs think twice about making a decision dependent on the team / manager, or dependent on the implications they will likely face (they've made it "not worth the bother" to make decisions) then it's far from impartial. And deliberacy makes it corrupt or even conspiratorial if they're all doing it.

Whilst home support wrongly may naturally sway decision making, it cannot ever be influenced by a team / manager / implications afterwards.

[five stars 1,635]

6 hours ago, Guardian said:

Its not a conspiracy.

Book a Hibs player....Lemon will challenge it publicly and create a shit storm.

Book a celtic player Rodgers and Liewell will challenge it publicly and create a shit storm.

Book a Rangers player......No noise, no challenge......nothing happens.....no fallout.

Until we follow these things up, refs dont have to think twice about booking a Rangers player or not booking the opposition. Its not a conspiracy, the other teams now have refs making decisions they know they will have to justify later. They've made it not worth the bother and we should too.

Our "turn the other cheek policy" just gets that one slapped anaw.

If a decision goes against celtic you can be sure it'll be highlighted on the TV and be on the back page of the papers the next day.

They'll be a barage of call to radio phone- ins and it'll be widely debated on social media.

All of this negative attention directed at the referee can last for days and sometimes even longer.

If your a ref you definitely don't want to give a decision that goes against them.

[MrMckee 3,420]

Why can't we have full time refs in the top flight I don't understand it. Can't cost that much, how much do they want paying?

[Guardian 4,281]

1 hour ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

So there's a difference in how referees treat teams?. How would you define that best in a single or few words?

Bias? Subconscious differentiating decisions? Cheating?

Because if you're saying refs go and and consciously treat teams differently, and we are one of the teams who suffer most from their decision making, the that is corrupt. As it is conversely for the team deliberately allowed to benefit from decision making.

If refs think twice about making a decision dependent on the team / manager, or dependent on the implications they will likely face (they've made it "not worth the bother" to make decisions) then it's far from impartial. And deliberacy makes it corrupt or even conspiratorial if they're all doing it.

Whilst home support wrongly may naturally sway decision making, it cannot ever be influenced by a team / manager / implications afterwards.

Yes teams are being treated differently, but its mostly unconscious. Its not just during or after a game. How many times have we seen managers and players greeting about refs BEFORE a game.

Thats mind games and putting refs under pressure before they even start. Its not illegal, or even cheating, but it is putting them on notice they will have to heavily defend any decisions against that team.

Human nature, being what it is, they are gonna think twice and if not sure, they won't put themselves at risk. Mix in a lot of incompetence too and you have the answer to why some teams fare better. They have tipped the balance ever so slightly against a ref making decisions against them.

We should be pushing back too, but instead we just bend over and take it while asking for more.

[big blue Fin 3,724]

Incompetence or cheating? 

Why can't it be both?

There is ample evidence this season to support the supposition that Scottish referees are incompetent, however there is equally as much evidence to support the idea that Rangers players are treated more harshly than everyone else in the league with two teams, namely hibs and celtic being treated leniently in comparison.

There is a reason for this and plenty of people have already mentioned it. A decision goes against either of those teams then that team's fans, manager and the media are immediately on the referees back claiming how that ref gives them nothing. The results are there for people to see in black and white on the league table. These two teams cheat their way to victories and draws they don't deserve.

Meanwhile in the Southside of Glasgow a former giant of the game maintains the position of dignified silence and the results for it are even clearer to see, players out injured due to thug tactics, players suspended due to referees who do not or choose not to apply the rules of the sport fairly, a third place finish which the fans lay at the feet of the revolving door management and poor players while blythly ignoring the fact that we have been bullied out of points against many teams this season. Now don't worry I'm not claiming our team are world beaters in fact some of them couldn't beat an egg but we lost points against the filth from Leith at the weekend and at the start of the season which would have seen us finish second. Similarly we dropped points against almost every other team which would have seen us closer, possibly even ahead of the taigs, although they may have been able to raise their game and still win the league. The point however remains that as a club we have been cheated by Scottish football.

What is the reaction of our fans, or at least a significant portion going by this thread?

Don't be a taig, don't complain, it all evens out.

Well to each and every one of you I say FUCKING BULLSHIT!

These decisions do not even themselves out, they never have in the past, they didn't this season and indeed they won't in the future.

Enough dignified silence, that time is long gone it is dead and buried and should be forgotten. If a decision goes against us next season we should be clammering for explanations, if the same referees keep getting decisions against us wrong then we should be calling wholeheartedly for them to never be given a Rangers game again, every wrong call should be recorded and produced at the end of the season as a YouTube video and presented to any media outlet willing to give it airtime. 

IT'S NOT BEING A TAIG TO COMPLAIN. IT'S USING THE SYSTEM.

They use the system better than we do, their inbuilt belief of "victimology" serves them well far better than our "dignified silence" serves us.

[piperpete 3,186]

17 hours ago, Virtuoso said:

https://daviesleftpeg.wordpress.com/2018/05/14/planned-incompetence/

We just have very shite Tefs who are rushed into the top grade by what job they do or who they know rather on performance. I would bet the majority of them couldn’t play football at school and carried others schoolbags and became Refs to get back at them

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,620]

29 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Yes teams are being treated differently, but its mostly unconscious. Its not just during or after a game. How many times have we seen managers and players greeting about refs BEFORE a game.

Thats mind games and putting refs under pressure before they even start. Its not illegal, or even cheating, but it is putting them on notice they will have to heavily defend any decisions against that team.

Human nature, being what it is, they are gonna think twice and if not sure, they won't put themselves at risk. Mix in a lot of incompetence too and you have the answer to why some teams fare better. They have tipped the balance ever so slightly against a ref making decisions against them.

We should be pushing back too, but instead we just bend over and take it while asking for more.

Their job is to referee with impartiality. So if they are influenced by external factors, and they and their bosses are aware but don't resolve the issue then they are systematically biased.

It's not for clubs to police the refs, they are in control of their body and have to self police to ensure integrity and impartiality which as you say they can lack.

I agree we as a club need to be more vocal but in truth we shouldn't NEED to to get importantly fairness NOT advantage.

I think the whole incompetence issue masks the true problem which as you say is external factors impacting on decision making. All too often, like Sunday, the competence IS there when enforcing rules against us. It just goes missing when enforcing against our opponents and selective competence for me is not incompetence.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

19 hours ago, Virtuoso said:

https://daviesleftpeg.wordpress.com/2018/05/14/planned-incompetence/

Interesting article.

Imho some of the referees have a leaning towards supporting the Res12 campaign and that reflects in their decision making. I would like to see further analysis of this subject. Maybe DLP can work with

 http://www.refereedecisions.co.uk/  To find the proof the needed to make a complaint.

[RFC55 108,732]

5 minutes ago, Sweetheart said:

Interesting article.

Imho some of the referees have a leaning towards supporting the Res12 campaign and that reflects in their decision making. I would like to see further analysis of this subject. Maybe DLP can work with

 http://www.refereedecisions.co.uk/  To find the proof the needed to make a complaint.

You're honestly fucking nuts.

Does the tinfoil annoy your fillings?

[Del 667]

We need to stop all this stuff, it’s embarassing and behaviour you would expect from the tims!

For years we listened to the ‘its a conspiracy’ from them and laughed but now because decisions are going against us and we are not winning, there might be some truth in it?

People are quick to remember the injustices we’ve had but forget when things have went our way. 

We didn’t drop points yesterday because the ref never sent off Scott Allan or bwcause he sent off Jason Holt, we lost points because we can’t defend!

[Wullies_bowly_legs 3,779]

Two words that prove referees are more lenient to some teams. Lego Eater.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,498]

51 minutes ago, Del said:

We need to stop all this stuff, it’s embarassing and behaviour you would expect from the tims!

For years we listened to the ‘its a conspiracy’ from them and laughed but now because decisions are going against us and we are not winning, there might be some truth in it?

People are quick to remember the injustices we’ve had but forget when things have went our way. 

We didn’t drop points yesterday because the ref never sent off Scott Allan or bwcause he sent off Jason Holt, we lost points because we can’t defend!

You having a laugh, hibs on the ropes at 3-2 allan goes off, they are dead and buried, blatant handball in the box at 5-3 or 5-4 us puts hibs down for the day, whittaker lucky to stay on the park, 

And thats all in one bloody game, 

[Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312]

20 hours ago, Rfc52 said:

Nonsense imo.

The refs here are shite. They're shite in the games i watch not involving us. 

The thistle road county game last week 4 blatant penalties were missed. Its not cheating..They're Just really really shite 

It is I’m afraid. Nobody will ever convince me Andrew Dallas became grade 1 because of his ability alone. John Fleming head of refs (good bluenose btw) was and is very close to Hugh Dallas. 

This crop of refs we have are the worst in a long long time. A shake up is badly needed 

Oh,  and for all the conspiracy theorists - stop being taigy