Honest Mistakes

[eejay the dj 31,964]

1 hour ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Never

You do so ?

[The Dude 20,026]

14 minutes ago, markem said:

 

 

The strike came about after celtic complained about them not being given decisions - (like the Dougie McDonald penalty carry on in a game at Tannadice). Infact, celtic formally demanded he resigned over the incident.

Soon after the strike, celtic again contacted the SFA over refereees - this time complaining about two decisions given correctly in our favour.

A week after that celtic again complained (this time through Gary Hooper) about decisions

A week later they were moaning again, this time about a game at Tynecastle involving our old pal Craig Thomson. (So that's celtic and Motherwell now both got problems with Thomson).

So were the referees anti-celtic at the time? I mean, they can probably make an amazing wee video for youtube too. They must be onto something.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Just now, eejay the dj said:

That's the best sitting on the fence ever mate ?

Trying not to alienate the decent refs and the few in power who aren't in the thrall of the bheasts. I have met one or two, in the past, who seem decent enough.

If only there were a few journalists in Scotland who weren't incompetent or bheast fans then we may have a less poisonous atmosphere in the game.

I think the difference we have is where and how widespread the conspiracy is. Theres no doubt it influences all aspects of the game and the media. Hopefully the 2 recent exits are the start of many more at that level.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

30 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The strike came about after celtic complained about them not being given decisions - (like the Dougie McDonald penalty carry on in a game at Tannadice). Infact, celtic formally demanded he resigned over the incident.

Soon after the strike, celtic again contacted the SFA over refereees - this time complaining about two decisions given correctly in our favour.

A week after that celtic again complained (this time through Gary Hooper) about decisions

A week later they were moaning again, this time about a game at Tynecastle involving our old pal Craig Thomson. (So that's celtic and Motherwell now both got problems with Thomson).

So were the referees anti-celtic at the time? I mean, they can probably make an amazing wee video for youtube too. They must be onto something.

The climate has completely changed since then Dude .And you well know that 

Dallas ,McDonald few others previously were all conveniently railroaded out of Scottish football 

One sent Shrek off in OF game and was the ref when we won at scumdome 4-2

Dallas was always going to be target after the 1999 season when he denied them penalty in Scf and gave us everything apparently, on that amazing night at the scumdome 

I'm certain I'm being paranoid on this 

The strike and our losing of any power within the game seen to all these things happening

Allied with a compliant beggar loving media ..They put the pressure on to help get them the sack 

Maybe you hadn't started working for the rebel in those days 

 

[markem 7,251]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The strike came about after celtic complained about them not being given decisions - (like the Dougie McDonald penalty carry on in a game at Tannadice). Infact, celtic formally demanded he resigned over the incident.

Soon after the strike, celtic again contacted the SFA over refereees - this time complaining about two decisions given correctly in our favour.

A week after that celtic again complained (this time through Gary Hooper) about decisions

A week later they were moaning again, this time about a game at Tynecastle involving our old pal Craig Thomson. (So that's celtic and Motherwell now both got problems with Thomson).

So were the referees anti-celtic at the time? I mean, they can probably make an amazing wee video for youtube too. They must be onto something.

I honestly think you are completely missing the point Dude, whether that is due to my inability to explain it or you now being in a win at all cost frame of mind I’m  not sure but we will never agree. 

You enjoy your level playing field, i’d honestly be happier feeling we had one. 

 

 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, eejay the dj said:

The climate has completely changed since then Dude .And you well know that 

Dallas ,McDonald few others previously were all conveniently railroaded out of Scottish football 

One sent Shrek off in OF game and was the ref when we won at scumdome 4-2

Dallas was always going to be target after the 1999 season when he denied them penalty in Scf and gave us everything apparently on that amazing night at the scumdome 

I'm certain I'm being paranoid on this 

The strike and our losing of any power within the game seen to all these things happening

Allied with a compliant beggar loving media ..They put the pressure on to help get them the sack 

Maybe you hadn't started working for the rebel in those days 

 

And here's my point. Some say it has competely changed since then, someone else said that If I didnt think it went back years I'm a fantasist. I've said this a few times but it can't be both. This cant be something that goes back years as claimed but also has seen a total change of climate since 2010. 

McDonald made a rod for his own back by admitting lying. The second he done that he was fucked. No matter how you want to try dress it up, if a referee admits they lied over the reason for changing a decision then they are pretty likely to be out on their arse. Nothing to do with a "compliant begger loving media". He made a cunt of it and deservedly went. Had it happened to us we'd have wanted him gone too.

Dallas was stupid. Daft gag to pass around on work email - especially given whole thing about sectarianism in Scotland - and can't say it was a shock he went even if it was a fairly tame email.

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

3 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Could but haven't, unless you can provide otherwise.

Funny that with all the fans forums other teams have there's none we can compare ours against. How unlucky for us is that, that despite them being done out of points etc they've not got round to it... 

Perhaps they have - unlike some others on here I have no idea what happens on other fans forums. 

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

24 minutes ago, The Dude said:

And here's my point. Some say it has competely changed since then, someone else said that If I didnt think it went back years I'm a fantasist. I've said this a few times but it can't be both. This cant be something that goes back years as claimed but also has seen a total change of climate since 2010. 

McDonald made a rod for his own back by admitting lying. The second he done that he was fucked. No matter how you want to try dress it up, if a referee admits they lied over the reason for changing a decision then they are pretty likely to be out on their arse. Nothing to do with a "compliant begger loving media". He made a cunt of it and deservedly went. Had it happened to us we'd have wanted him gone too.

Dallas was stupid. Daft gag to pass around on work email - especially given whole thing about sectarianism in Scotland - and can't say it was a shock he went even if it was a fairly tame email.

 

Another trait of journalists in Scotland.

I called you a fantasist if you thought it only went back TWO years. As you aren't so good at Maths (or English apparently) 2010 is 8 years ago. It is perfectly possible for both of the points you choose to conflate to be correct. Maybe 2012 had a newsworthy event that slipped your mind? Pretty clear who had their prints all over that.

You really aren't very good at this at all are you?

[Bakbear 3,580]

So 8 pages in and some very bizarre straw man arguments being laid out.

Talk of IRA and Chris Sutton, suggestions that 2010 isn’t “years ago”. Some fucking bizarre notion that a ref has it in for St Johnstone and the complete inability to grasp that if you are top of the FairPlay league then it is statistically likely you have less decisions to complain about. 

There is no conspiracy ffs. But there is unquestionably a bias. I don’t know why people can’t entertain the notion of a bias without a conspiracy. 

I watch only Rangers games. I watched nearly every league game last season. I saw the decisions in those games. The decisions in those games overwhelmingly went against us and for our opponents. 

Thats not to say we didn’t get away with a few. It’s also not to say that the opposition had the odd wrong decision but we suffered more in those games than our opponents. 

The standard of refereeing is absolutely howling but if a referee is faced with a difficult decision then I firmly believe that he sees the path of least resistance is to call the decision against Rangers. I don’t know how that can be disputed frankly..

However even at that, I am referring to incidents such as the Scott Allan challenge on Rossiter or the punch in the balls of David Bates. Bad decisions by the referee that I believe were caused by “path of least resistance” bias,

Where it gets taken to new depths of incompetence is the first Hibs game where Tav is booked for being assaulted by Stokes, or Morelos is booked for being on the end of a flying clothes line from Darren McGregor. Those are the kinds of decisions that prompt suggestions of conspiracy.

Its like this;

in 2010 The scum attacked referees so insistently that the referees ended up striking. Subsequently the scum fans through their new found computer skills have waged a war on social media on all things institutional in Scottish football, the consequences of giving anything against them is so severe and the consequences of giving anything against Rangers so .... well..... inconsequential.... that refs are now conditioned to make biased decisions

Of course their fans still complain about decisions despite topping the fair play charts, if they stop complaining the balance would be restored. 

*Note the Hivs are second in the fair play league with referee bully-in-chief leading their charge, wonder why so few red and yellow cards dished out to the teams in green ?

Dignified silence has done absolute fuck all good ......in any situation ...... and if breaking the dignified silence leads to accusations of paranoia bring it on and let’s go

 

[markem 7,251]

19 minutes ago, Bakbear said:

So 8 pages in and some very bizarre straw man arguments being laid out.

Talk of IRA and Chris Sutton, suggestions that 2010 isn’t “years ago”. Some fucking bizarre notion that a ref has it in for St Johnstone and the complete inability to grasp that if you are top of the FairPlay league then it is statistically likely you have less decisions to complain about. 

There is no conspiracy ffs. But there is unquestionably a bias. I don’t know why people can’t entertain the notion of a bias without a conspiracy. 

I watch only Rangers games. I watched nearly every league game last season. I saw the decisions in those games. The decisions in those games overwhelmingly went against us and for our opponents. 

Thats not to say we didn’t get away with a few. It’s also not to say that the opposition had the odd wrong decision but we suffered more in those games than our opponents. 

The standard of refereeing is absolutely howling but if a referee is faced with a difficult decision then I firmly believe that he sees the path of least resistance is to call the decision against Rangers. I don’t know how that can be disputed frankly..

However even at that, I am referring to incidents such as the Scott Allan challenge on Rossiter or the punch in the balls of David Bates. Bad decisions by the referee that I believe were caused by “path of least resistance” bias,

Where it gets taken to new depths of incompetence is the first Hibs game where Tav is booked for being assaulted by Stokes, or Morelos is booked for being on the end of a flying clothes line from Darren McGregor. Those are the kinds of decisions that prompt suggestions of conspiracy.

Its like this;

in 2010 The scum attacked referees so insistently that the referees ended up striking. Subsequently the scum fans through their new found computer skills have waged a war on social media on all things institutional in Scottish football, the consequences of giving anything against them is so severe and the consequences of giving anything against Rangers so .... well..... inconsequential.... that refs are now conditioned to make biased decisions

Of course their fans still complain about decisions despite topping the fair play charts, if they stop complaining the balance would be restored. 

*Note the Hivs are second in the fair play league with referee bully-in-chief leading their charge, wonder why so few red and yellow cards dished out to the teams in green ?

Dignified silence has done absolute fuck all good ......in any situation ...... and if breaking the dignified silence leads to accusations of paranoia bring it on and let’s go

 

Well done mate. You probably summarised there what I was trying to get across over most of those 8 pages. 

Great post  

 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

And here's my point. Some say it has competely changed since then, someone else said that If I didnt think it went back years I'm a fantasist. I've said this a few times but it can't be both. This cant be something that goes back years as claimed but also has seen a total change of climate since 2010. 

McDonald made a rod for his own back by admitting lying. The second he done that he was fucked. No matter how you want to try dress it up, if a referee admits they lied over the reason for changing a decision then they are pretty likely to be out on their arse. Nothing to do with a "compliant begger loving media". He made a cunt of it and deservedly went. Had it happened to us we'd have wanted him gone too.

Dallas was stupid. Daft gag to pass around on work email - especially given whole thing about sectarianism in Scotland - and can't say it was a shock he went even if it was a fairly tame email.

 

And you believe other refs have never lied ?

And you believe other officials have not been guilty of sending inappropriate emails . HMRC ring any bells

What planet are you on Dude . You have been writing for that beggar ridden tabloid for too long.

My whole point . They went after them , applying pressure and using every word they could , to corner McDonald .

I have yet to ever see pressure applied to a ref , the way they went for McDonald .

And Dallas . We all know the scum have a scandalous record for badgering refs that are not favourable

McCluskie , Tait , McCurrie . and Dallas was always the top of their  list

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,601]

1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Perhaps they have - unlike some others on here I have no idea what happens on other fans forums. 

So you can't provide any comparable video for any club who might or might not have produced a video showing how badly they too have been wronged.

Thanks.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

24 minutes ago, Bakbear said:

 

*Note the Hivs are second in the fair play league with referee bully-in-chief leading their charge, wonder why so few red and yellow cards dished out to the teams in green ?

Dignified silence has done absolute fuck all good ......in any situation ...... and if breaking the dignified silence leads to accusations of paranoia bring it on and let’s go

 

Another cracking post from you

Astounding fact but not surprising about Rhodent no 1

Too many bears caught with their heads up their arse . This para word is somehow described as exclusive behaviour to the beggars so we had better not be seen to be doing it .It's bollocks for me

Like you said . For far too long , our club and support have had to be the bigger guy , so to speak .

It has got us no where

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,601]

10 minutes ago, markem said:

Well done mate. You probably summarised there what I was trying to get across over most of those 8 pages. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, eejay the dj said:

Another cracking post from you

What they said about an excellent Bakbear post.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 hour ago, RFC Eagle said:

Another trait of journalists in Scotland.

I called you a fantasist if you thought it only went back TWO years. As you aren't so good at Maths (or English apparently) 2010 is 8 years ago. It is perfectly possible for both of the points you choose to conflate to be correct. Maybe 2012 had a newsworthy event that slipped your mind? Pretty clear who had their prints all over that.

You really aren't very good at this at all are you?

What does Admin have to do with any of this. When does it go back to then?

[The Dude 20,026]

14 minutes ago, eejay the dj said:

And you believe other refs have never lied ?

And you believe other officials have not been guilty of sending inappropriate emails . HMRC ring any bells

What planet are you on Dude . You have been writing for that beggar ridden tabloid for too long.

My whole point . They went after them , applying pressure and using every word they could , to corner McDonald .

I have yet to ever see pressure applied to a ref , the way they went for McDonald .

And Dallas . We all know the scum have a scandalous record for badgering refs that are not favourable

McCluskie , Tait , McCurrie . and Dallas was always the top of their  list

No - and it's not close to what I've said either. He ADMITTED lying over the penalty decision. Whether other refs have lied or nor is wholly irrelevant. If any referee admits lying over the reasons for making a decision over a game then he's finished. Doesn't matter who benefits or who suffers, if a referee admits lying over the reasons he made a certain decision his integrity (or what little he started with) is shot to pieces.

What relevance does HMRC have to literally anything? Dallas was in breach of his employers code of conduct etc. He's far from the first person to lose his job over sending a dodgy email and he certainly won't be the last.

Why does it always come round to the Record with some folk? Do you think we all sit in a room and get told what opinions we're allowed to hold or some shite? A weekly email from on high telling us the week's agenda?

You think the pressure celtic put on McDonald was bad? Ask Anders Frisk about Chelsea. Or Urs Meier when an English paper printed his personal contact details in 2004. (and these are just recent examples)

 

[Misteral 2,932]

If it was possible to get an independent panel to pick out the ten worst refereeing decisions in the league/cups from last season from say 30 videos, I'm sure there would be more against us than any other team. 

[The Dude 20,026]

43 minutes ago, Bakbear said:

So 8 pages in and some very bizarre straw man arguments being laid out.

Talk of IRA and Chris Sutton, suggestions that 2010 isn’t “years ago”. Some fucking bizarre notion that a ref has it in for St Johnstone and the complete inability to grasp that if you are top of the FairPlay league then it is statistically likely you have less decisions to complain about. 

There is no conspiracy ffs. But there is unquestionably a bias. I don’t know why people can’t entertain the notion of a bias without a conspiracy. 

I watch only Rangers games. I watched nearly every league game last season. I saw the decisions in those games. The decisions in those games overwhelmingly went against us and for our opponents. 

Thats not to say we didn’t get away with a few. It’s also not to say that the opposition had the odd wrong decision but we suffered more in those games than our opponents. 

The standard of refereeing is absolutely howling but if a referee is faced with a difficult decision then I firmly believe that he sees the path of least resistance is to call the decision against Rangers. I don’t know how that can be disputed frankly..

However even at that, I am referring to incidents such as the Scott Allan challenge on Rossiter or the punch in the balls of David Bates. Bad decisions by the referee that I believe were caused by “path of least resistance” bias,

Where it gets taken to new depths of incompetence is the first Hibs game where Tav is booked for being assaulted by Stokes, or Morelos is booked for being on the end of a flying clothes line from Darren McGregor. Those are the kinds of decisions that prompt suggestions of conspiracy.

Its like this;

in 2010 The scum attacked referees so insistently that the referees ended up striking. Subsequently the scum fans through their new found computer skills have waged a war on social media on all things institutional in Scottish football, the consequences of giving anything against them is so severe and the consequences of giving anything against Rangers so .... well..... inconsequential.... that refs are now conditioned to make biased decisions

Of course their fans still complain about decisions despite topping the fair play charts, if they stop complaining the balance would be restored. 

*Note the Hivs are second in the fair play league with referee bully-in-chief leading their charge, wonder why so few red and yellow cards dished out to the teams in green ?

Dignified silence has done absolute fuck all good ......in any situation ...... and if breaking the dignified silence leads to accusations of paranoia bring it on and let’s go

 

the 'fucking bizarre notion' a ref has it in for St. Johnstone comes directly from their manager who has publicly complained about Dallas' performances when he takes their games.. Weird how when a manager has an issue with a referee's performance consistently it's a 'fucking bizarre notion' but somebody makes a youtube video and it's kosher. Motherwell have also had complaints because they have had five red cards - all from the same referee - two of which were overturned. 

You say you only watch Rangers games, I watch far more than that. Think over the course of the season I've watched about 85% of Scottish Premiership games and the refereeing standard is abysmal in the overwhelming majority of them. The same stuff I see watching Rangers games I see watching Aberdeen or Hearts or Motherwell.

Last season when I was also doing the U20s games regularly I was genuinely amazed at how bad some of the refereeing was. Some of the most baffling decisions I've ever seen being made.

It's easy to call the 'path of least resistance' idea nonsense - particularly in games at Ibrox - as scientific studies have shown time and time and time again; with the size of the crowd also having a noticeable effect on referees decision making and they tend to favour the home team (assuming the home support are the louder support).

Athough Hibs are second, they also have the most booked player in the Scottish Premiership - McGinn with 15. Last season's most disciplined player? Scott Brown.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that the refs are absolutely bollocks. I wholeheartedly agree with it.

One last wee point, there was a thing in the papers a while back (5-10 years) that something like 80% of Scottish refs failed a written exam on the Laws of the Game. I'd be surprised if that number hadn't increased.

 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

32 minutes ago, The Dude said:

No - and it's not close to what I've said either. He ADMITTED lying over the penalty decision. Whether other refs have lied or nor is wholly irrelevant. If any referee admits lying over the reasons for making a decision over a game then he's finished. Doesn't matter who benefits or who suffers, if a referee admits lying over the reasons he made a certain decision his integrity (or what little he started with) is shot to pieces.

What relevance does HMRC have to literally anything? Dallas was in breach of his employers code of conduct etc. He's far from the first person to lose his job over sending a dodgy email and he certainly won't be the last.

Why does it always come round to the Record with some folk? Do you think we all sit in a room and get told what opinions we're allowed to hold or some shite? A weekly email from on high telling us the week's agenda?

You think the pressure celtic put on McDonald was bad? Ask Anders Frisk about Chelsea. Or Urs Meier when an English paper printed his personal contact details in 2004. (and these are just recent examples)

 

Dude I know you well by now

You always have to get the last word and you are never wrong in your mind

You said. What relevance does  HMRC got to do with anything . I used them as an example of a similar scenario .

 Virtuoso and VB bears exposed them for their bigoted and offensive online stuff that they got away with .4/5 years ago

No media outrage there

And I would say to you . What the hell has these other referees from different Countries  got to do with our discussion? .On the complete hanging out to dry of a very good Scottish referee

You would disagree with your shadow Dude . You honestly would

 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, eejay the dj said:

Dude I know you well by now

You always have to get the last word and you are never wrong in your mind

You said. What relevance does  HMRC got to do with anything . I used them as an example of a similar scenario .

 Virtuoso and VB bears exposed them for their bigoted and offensive online stuff that they got away with .4/5 years ago

No media outrage there

And I would say to you . What the hell has these other referees from different Countries  got to do with our discussion? .On the complete hanging out to dry of a very good Scottish referee

You would disagree with your shadow Dude . You honestly would

 

Is anyone wrong in their mind? I never understand that accusation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't VB name some random HMRC employees? Did they have any particular newsworthiness? I specifically mentioned Dallas being sacked (along with four or five others I should add) for sending an email in breach of the SFA's policies. The same person was quite a high-profile figure in Scottish football at the time. It was a storm in a tea cup but I can see the reasoning behind his sacking.

What does pressure directly applied by a club and fans to a referee after a game has to do with pressure being directly applied by a club and fans to a referee after a game? Really? You don't see the link there?

 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

12 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Is anyone wrong in their mind? I never understand that accusation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't VB name some random HMRC employees? Did they have any particular newsworthiness? I specifically mentioned Dallas being sacked (along with four or five others I should add) for sending an email in breach of the SFA's policies. The same person was quite a high-profile figure in Scottish football at the time. It was a storm in a tea cup but I can see the reasoning behind his sacking.

What does pressure directly applied by a club and fans to a referee after a game has to do with pressure being directly applied by a club and fans to a referee after a game? Really? You don't see the link there?

 

I once met Hugh Keevins . When I think of you . His face comes to my mind

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, eejay the dj said:

I once met Hugh Keevins . When I think of you . His face comes to my mind

[eejay the dj 31,964]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

need I say more Dude

I think he even uses this classic line

[FlippinEck 3,701]

You can tell by hibs fans in crowds reaction to Scott Allan's tackle it should have been a red

[markem 7,251]

41 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Is anyone wrong in their mind? I never understand that accusation.

 

Of course a person accepts they could be wrong or at least remains open minded to other perspectives that may influence your thinking.