The Dude 20,026 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, markem said: Of course a person accepts they could be wrong or at least remains open minded to other perspectives that may influence your thinking. I'm always open to other opinions and perspectives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre 1,663 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 14 hours ago, Jack The Flipper said: We weren't good enough for 1st or 2nd place in the league, it's our own fault. End of We were shite, and not up to the standard expected for us, no denying that but the whole point of a league is about how good you are relative to other teams in the league. Is there enough in that 8 minute video that, had referees not been shite/biased (take your pick) that we would have won the league, I'm not convinced there is, but we were 3 points behind Aberdeen and I certainly think there's enough evidence in that video of us being cheated/shite refereed (take your pick) out of 3 points at least over the course of the season. Domthenbud and SeparateEntityMyArse 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bakbear 3,563 Posted June 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2018 7 hours ago, The Dude said: the 'fucking bizarre notion' a ref has it in for St. Johnstone comes directly from their manager who has publicly complained about Dallas' performances when he takes their games.. Weird how when a manager has an issue with a referee's performance consistently it's a 'fucking bizarre notion' but somebody makes a youtube video and it's kosher. Motherwell have also had complaints because they have had five red cards - all from the same referee - two of which were overturned. You say you only watch Rangers games, I watch far more than that. Think over the course of the season I've watched about 85% of Scottish Premiership games and the refereeing standard is abysmal in the overwhelming majority of them. The same stuff I see watching Rangers games I see watching Aberdeen or Hearts or Motherwell. Last season when I was also doing the U20s games regularly I was genuinely amazed at how bad some of the refereeing was. Some of the most baffling decisions I've ever seen being made. It's easy to call the 'path of least resistance' idea nonsense - particularly in games at Ibrox - as scientific studies have shown time and time and time again; with the size of the crowd also having a noticeable effect on referees decision making and they tend to favour the home team (assuming the home support are the louder support). Athough Hibs are second, they also have the most booked player in the Scottish Premiership - McGinn with 15. Last season's most disciplined player? Scott Brown. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that the refs are absolutely bollocks. I wholeheartedly agree with it. One last wee point, there was a thing in the papers a while back (5-10 years) that something like 80% of Scottish refs failed a written exam on the Laws of the Game. I'd be surprised if that number hadn't increased. Dude I have never really had the inclination to engage in a debate with you. It is akin to debating a brick wall. You have three traits 1. Be contrary 2. Deliberately miss the point 3. Set up straw men You have exhibited all 3 of these characteristics in this post. Now I don’t want to be the guy who tackles the man instead of the ball so let me try to respond and then I am happy to agree to disagree You are constantly trying to convince us that with all your vast experience of watching Scottish football it has you uniquely placed to confirm to us that the referees in Scotland are shite. Please. Stop. We all agree. This is not the point and you are deliberately missing it (trait 2) That kind of deals with 70% of your post. The brass tacks is are they biased? You have said that time and again studies have shown that teams with the louder crowd get decisions. To copy a contrary trait from you, please link these studies? Only joking don’t link the studies as I don’t care and it’s a pointless request as it is irrelevant to the discussion (trait 3) if, as you say, time after time studies have proven that the louder crowd influence a referee into giving a decision then why is it the biggest and best supported club in the country were on the end of the overwhelming majority of incorrect decisions last season? If it was the case that Motherwell played Kilmarnock and the poor refereeing standards meant that the overwhelming majority of the decisions went in Motherwells favour over the course of the game. With Motherwell getting away with a couple of red cards, awarded a soft penalty and scoring a dubious goal, while Kilmarnock had a wrong red card issued, one of their players injured by an assault of a challenge and a stonewall penalty turned down. Then Klimarnock would be entitled to think that referee was biased against them. Now take that scenario into Kilmarnocks next game, the same thing happens to them even though they are now playing St Johnstone and again the following week against Aberdeen. Then Kilmarnock fans would for sure say there was a bias against them. Because the facts are that poor refereeing is poor for everyone. The old adage “it evens out over a season” applies when there is consistently poor refereeing, but if it’s inconsistent and it is inconsistent to the detriment of a particular club then there is a bias. How do you train an animal or a child? You reward it for good behaviour and punish it for bad behaviour. Referees have felt the pain when they have made calls that have hurt a certain club. They have been pain free when they have made calls that have hurt us. Isn’t it time to bring the pain? Even in the form of registering our complaints. I hope to fuck Gerrard thinks so. I hope he ditches dignified silence and calls out every single Ref fuck up against us and highlights every wrong decision Domthenbud, SeparateEntityMyArse, TheHammer_WATP and 8 others 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: So you can't provide any comparable video for any club who might or might not have produced a video showing how badly they too have been wronged. Thanks. really - your fucking desperate coming out with that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Bakbear said: if, as you say, time after time studies have proven that the louder crowd influence a referee into giving a decision then why is it the biggest and best supported club in the country were on the end of the overwhelming majority of incorrect decisions last season? ... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howsitgoing 4,281 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said: ... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things Is Dave King also paranoid? He also believes that the spfl and the SFA have knowingly appointed people in power that has a conflict of interest to one team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtyard Bear 41,357 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 11 hours ago, The Dude said: I'm always open to other opinions and perspectives. Just choked on my breakfast. ??? dougie76 and markem 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuW 7 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Some poor decisions in that video, some clutching at straws but it’s really just an excuse for mediocrity at best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Bakbear said: Dude I have never really had the inclination to engage in a debate with you. It is akin to debating a brick wall. You have three traits 1. Be contrary 2. Deliberately miss the point 3. Set up straw men You have exhibited all 3 of these characteristics in this post. Now I don’t want to be the guy who tackles the man instead of the ball so let me try to respond and then I am happy to agree to disagree You are constantly trying to convince us that with all your vast experience of watching Scottish football it has you uniquely placed to confirm to us that the referees in Scotland are shite. Please. Stop. We all agree. This is not the point and you are deliberately missing it (trait 2) That kind of deals with 70% of your post. The brass tacks is are they biased? You have said that time and again studies have shown that teams with the louder crowd get decisions. To copy a contrary trait from you, please link these studies? Only joking don’t link the studies as I don’t care and it’s a pointless request as it is irrelevant to the discussion (trait 3) if, as you say, time after time studies have proven that the louder crowd influence a referee into giving a decision then why is it the biggest and best supported club in the country were on the end of the overwhelming majority of incorrect decisions last season? If it was the case that Motherwell played Kilmarnock and the poor refereeing standards meant that the overwhelming majority of the decisions went in Motherwells favour over the course of the game. With Motherwell getting away with a couple of red cards, awarded a soft penalty and scoring a dubious goal, while Kilmarnock had a wrong red card issued, one of their players injured by an assault of a challenge and a stonewall penalty turned down. Then Klimarnock would be entitled to think that referee was biased against them. Now take that scenario into Kilmarnocks next game, the same thing happens to them even though they are now playing St Johnstone and again the following week against Aberdeen. Then Kilmarnock fans would for sure say there was a bias against them. Because the facts are that poor refereeing is poor for everyone. The old adage “it evens out over a season” applies when there is consistently poor refereeing, but if it’s inconsistent and it is inconsistent to the detriment of a particular club then there is a bias. How do you train an animal or a child? You reward it for good behaviour and punish it for bad behaviour. Referees have felt the pain when they have made calls that have hurt a certain club. They have been pain free when they have made calls that have hurt us. Isn’t it time to bring the pain? Even in the form of registering our complaints. I hope to fuck Gerrard thinks so. I hope he ditches dignified silence and calls out every single Ref fuck up against us and highlights every wrong decision Weird that you've asked me to link to studies that are already linked in the post. The overwhelming majority of wrong decisions? IS there any evidence that actually backs that up? We benefitted from plenty wrong decisions too and I don't for a second buy it was the 'overwhelming majority' Fans of other teams DO say there is a bias against them. Motherwell fans think Craig Thomson is biased against them - citing the five red cards he issued this season with two being overturned - St/ Johnstone's manager has an issue with one referee's consistently poor performance to the point he has publicly criticised him in the media. Here we have them saying exactly what you think they would but for some reason it doesn't apply? ForeverAndEver and Bluepeter9 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtyard Bear 41,357 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said: ... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things True SNP Yes Voter logic right there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said: really - your fucking desperate coming out with that! *you're I'm desperate for you to provide evidence. You can't and won't. 59 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said: ... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things Prove it. Prove the majority of let's even say just big decisions didn't go against us. Or that any other team had the same number of comparable big decisions that went against them last season. Put out all the smiley faces and retorts about paranoia that you want but you can't. And you'll likely be another one that's arguing against it whilst not having even watched the video to see the catalogue of decisions being discussed. Without proof you're just all talk, no substance as usual........ Courtyard Bear and OneDavidCooper 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: *you're I'm desperate for you to provide evidence. You can't and won't. Prove it. Prove the majority of let's even say just big decisions didn't go against us. Or that any other team had the same number of comparable big decisions that went against them last season. Put out all the smiley faces and retorts about paranoia that you want but you can't. And you'll likely be another one that's arguing against it whilst not having even watched the video to see the catalogue of decisions being discussed. Without proof you're just all talk, no substance as usual........ that’s the ‘god’ argument - prove god doesn’t exist! Good try but nae cigar! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, Howsitgoing said: Is Dave King also paranoid? He also believes that the spfl and the SFA have knowingly appointed people in power that has a conflict of interest to one team. Dave King - paranoid - oh yes! Definately! And really citing Dave King as some paragon of virtue! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said: that’s the ‘god’ argument - prove god doesn’t exist! Good try but nae cigar! I'm asking you to justify an argument you're making. A comparable video of incidents, or a typed listing will do. Prove that the majority of big decisions didn't go against us. Your argument. Prove that ANY other spl team had comparable levels of injustices. Your argument. If you can't do either it's because the evidence isn't there, not because it's an impossible request. And I'll assume I was correct that you didn't bother viewing the clip you're arguing against and calling paranoia ? Billy1984 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howsitgoing 4,281 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said: Dave King - paranoid - oh yes! Definately! And really citing Dave King as some paragon of virtue! You have a persona to keep up, I understand that but your replacing it with idiocy. These corrupt bastards at the SFA/spfl are not really leaving on their own free will and Santa Claus isn’t real. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 30 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: I'm asking you to justify an argument you're making. A comparable video of incidents, or a typed listing will do. Prove that the majority of big decisions didn't go against us. Your argument. Prove that ANY other spl team had comparable levels of injustices. Your argument. If you can't do either it's because the evidence isn't there, not because it's an impossible request. And I'll assume I was correct that you didn't bother viewing the clip you're arguing against and calling paranoia ? Carlos Pena elbowing Greg Docherty in the face. Carlos Pena elbowing a St. Johnstone player. Carlos Pena's challenge on Dougie Imrie. Ross McCrorie not being sent off v Aberdeen Alfredo Morelos not being sent off at all last season despite a few kicks and sly punches aimed at opponents. And these are just off the top of my head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, The Dude said: Carlos Pena elbowing Greg Docherty in the face. Carlos Pena elbowing a St. Johnstone player. Carlos Pena's challenge on Dougie Imrie. Ross McCrorie not being sent off v Aberdeen Alfredo Morelos not being sent off at all last season despite a few kicks and sly punches aimed at opponents. And these are just off the top of my head. Those counter the incidents shown in the video? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: Those counter the incidents shown in the video? Those are just some of the decisions that went in our favour. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Dude said: Those are just some of the decisions that went in our favour. Yes. Things went in our favour. No one is disputing that. No one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbGER 24,518 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Remember Rodgers saying he had "no complaints" over Browns red card but appealed it anyway allowing him to lead their side V us in the cup semi? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: Yes. Things went in our favour. No one is disputing that. No one. So who is giving them the arbitrary level of importance? Is the Ryan Jack one worse than the Pena one v St Johnstone where Pena scored the first two goals in a 3-0 win? Which one is more important/game changing? Having a goal allowed that was offside? Game-changing? Or not that much since it went in our favour? Would it have been as big a deal if the same decision had been made to allow an Aberdeen goal against us? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Dude said: So who is giving them the arbitrary level of importance? Is the Ryan Jack one worse than the Pena one v St Johnstone where Pena scored the first two goals in a 3-0 win? Which one is more important/game changing? Having a goal allowed that was offside? Game-changing? Or not that much since it went in our favour? Would it have been as big a deal if the same decision had been made to allow an Aberdeen goal against us? That's part of the debate. Game changing, proximity and clear view of ref, rescinded cards, similar incidents but individuals / teams treated differently, etc. All in the mix. All teams have had some decisions go for, some against. Not disputing that. But we've had our standing stationary player rugby tackled .....and booked. Players assaulted and thrown to ground..... and booked. Player brought down by keeper with contact evident due to his face blood splattered.... And our player booked for simulation. Players simulating headbutt in front of ref..... And our player red carded. Our player punched in the baws, seen by the ref...... violent conduct was a yellow. Maybe go see if the scum forums "The IRA" poster has commented on these for you ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: I'm asking you to justify an argument you're making. A comparable video of incidents, or a typed listing will do. Prove that the majority of big decisions didn't go against us. Your argument. Prove that ANY other spl team had comparable levels of injustices. Your argument. If you can't do either it's because the evidence isn't there, not because it's an impossible request. And I'll assume I was correct that you didn't bother viewing the clip you're arguing against and calling paranoia ? I viewed the clip some shocking decisions - conspiracy my arse! As for the ‘god’ argument ... what ‘evidence’ have YOU presented that the ‘majority’ of incorrect decisions have gone against - I sure as hell hope your evidence is not that video! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said: I viewed the clip some shocking decisions - conspiracy my arse! As for the ‘god’ argument ... what ‘evidence’ have YOU presented that the ‘majority’ of incorrect decisions have gone against - I sure as hell hope your evidence is not that video! You keep going on about conspiracy. What is it about th at and paranoia that makes you keep chirping on about them when those aren't actually being rammed down your throat? Are you suggesting we've NOT had the majority of decisions go against us? Confirm yes or no would be great. 1 hour ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: But we've had our standing stationary player rugby tackled .....and booked. Players assaulted and thrown to ground..... and booked. Player brought down by keeper with contact evident due to his face blood splattered.... And our player booked for simulation. Players simulating headbutt in front of ref..... And our player red carded. Our player punched in the baws, seen by the ref...... violent conduct was a yellow. See above. Also, we've had players on the worse end of tackles unpunished than ours have committed (on Cardoso, Jack, Rossiter compared to by Pena ). I'm happy to look at them all and see which is worst, imo Allen's. Penalties? We've got away with a pen v hivs, maybe more you can think of, but in no way were they stronger shouts than Morelos getting his feet headered and booked for diving, or his pen that never was v the sheep. So overall in terms of red cards issues, rescinded, penalty issues, our players booked for being fouled, serious foul play incidents, refs booking for violent conduct, injuries received from unpunished fouls, .... comprehensive. See how easy it is to compile lists. Now are you going to do one to counter all that or are you going to come out with proving God exists as an argument for failing to do so? ? And I'm not even discussing why I believe it to be so. Just that this season it is so. Bakbear 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakbear 3,563 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 hours ago, The Dude said: Fans of other teams DO say there is a bias against them. Motherwell fans think Craig Thomson is biased against them - citing the five red cards he issued this season with two being overturned - St/ Johnstone's manager has an issue with one referee's consistently poor performance to the point he has publicly criticised him in the media. Here we have them saying exactly what you think they would but for some reason it doesn't apply? Trait 2. Deliberately miss the point. The Rangers supporters who believe there to be bias, do not believe that one referee is biased towards our club. We believe that all referees have a bias that has been generated over the last 8 years due to the pressure applied to them by certain clubs and their supporters while other clubs and their supporters have taken a dignified silence approach. Trait 1 Be Contrary if you have watched all the Rangers games this season and feel that the decisions that have gone against us in those games. Compares equally to the decisions that have gone for us in those games. Then the discussion is over. In the interests of sporting investigative journalism why not create a spreadsheet and have a for and against list. Put down in the “for” list all the Pena red cards that never happened and all the Morelos red cards that never happened and then in the “against” column add in all the red cards we wrongly got or red card challenges that were overlooked and let’s see what it looks like. I am willing to accept that I am perceiving this incorrectly SeparateEntityMyArse 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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