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Honest Mistakes


KingKirk

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14 hours ago, Jack The Flipper said:

We weren't good enough for 1st or 2nd place in the league, it's our own fault.

End of

We were shite, and not up to the standard expected for us, no denying that but the whole point of a league is about how good you are relative to other teams in the league. Is there enough in that 8 minute video that, had referees not been shite/biased (take your pick) that we would have won the league, I'm not convinced there is, but we were 3 points behind Aberdeen and I certainly think there's enough evidence in that video of us being cheated/shite refereed (take your pick) out of 3 points at least over the course of the season.

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12 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

So you can't provide any comparable video for any club who might or might not have produced a video showing how badly they too have been wronged.

Thanks.

:lol: really - your fucking  desperate coming out with that!  

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3 hours ago, Bakbear said:

 

 

if, as you say, time after time studies have proven that the louder crowd influence a referee into giving a decision then why is it the biggest and best supported club in the country were on the end of the overwhelming majority of incorrect decisions last season?

... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things 

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46 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things 

Is Dave King also paranoid? He also believes that the spfl and the SFA have knowingly appointed people in power that has a conflict of interest to one team.

 

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4 hours ago, Bakbear said:

Dude I have never really had the inclination to engage in a debate with you. It is akin to debating a brick wall. You have three traits

1. Be contrary 

2. Deliberately miss the point

3. Set up straw men 

You have exhibited all 3 of these characteristics in this post. 

Now I don’t want to be the guy who tackles the man instead of the ball so let me try to respond and then I am happy to agree to disagree

You are constantly trying to convince us that with all your vast experience of watching Scottish football it has you uniquely placed to confirm to us that the referees in Scotland are shite. Please. Stop. We all agree. This is not the point and you are deliberately missing it (trait 2)

That kind of deals with 70% of your post. 

The brass tacks is are they biased?

You have said that time and again studies have shown that teams with the louder crowd get decisions. To copy a contrary trait from you, please link these studies? Only joking don’t link the studies as I don’t care and it’s a pointless request as it is irrelevant to the discussion (trait 3)

if, as you say, time after time studies have proven that the louder crowd influence a referee into giving a decision then why is it the biggest and best supported club in the country were on the end of the overwhelming majority of incorrect decisions last season?

If it was the case that Motherwell played Kilmarnock and the poor refereeing standards meant that the overwhelming majority of the decisions went in Motherwells favour over the course of the game. With Motherwell getting away with a couple of red cards, awarded a soft penalty and scoring a dubious goal, while Kilmarnock had a wrong red card issued, one of their players injured by an assault of a challenge and a stonewall penalty turned down. Then Klimarnock would be entitled to think that referee was biased against them. Now take that scenario into Kilmarnocks next game, the same thing happens to them even though they are now playing St Johnstone and again the following week against Aberdeen. Then Kilmarnock fans would for sure say there was a bias against them.

Because the facts are that poor refereeing is poor for everyone. The old adage “it evens out over a season” applies when there is consistently poor refereeing, but if it’s inconsistent and it is inconsistent to the detriment of a particular club then there is a bias. 

How do you train an animal or a child? You reward it for good behaviour and punish it for bad behaviour.

Referees have felt the pain when they have made calls that have hurt a certain club. They have been pain free when they have made calls that have hurt us. Isn’t it time to bring the pain? Even in the form of registering our complaints. 

I hope to fuck Gerrard thinks so. I hope he ditches dignified silence and calls out every single Ref fuck up against us and highlights every wrong decision 

Weird that you've asked me to link to studies that are already linked in the post.

The overwhelming majority of wrong decisions? IS there any evidence that actually backs that up? We benefitted from plenty wrong decisions too and I don't for a second buy it was the 'overwhelming majority'

Fans of other teams DO say there is a bias against them. Motherwell fans think Craig Thomson is biased against them - citing the five red cards he issued this season with two being overturned - St/ Johnstone's manager has an issue with one referee's consistently poor performance to the point he has publicly criticised him in the media. Here we have them saying exactly what you think they would but for some reason it doesn't apply?

 

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1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things 

True SNP Yes Voter logic right there. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

:lol: really - your fucking  desperate coming out with that!  

*you're 

I'm desperate for you to provide evidence. You can't and won't.

59 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

... and therein lies the paranoia! That’s the essence of your post - no matter what anyone says you ‘bekieve’ The majority of incorrrect decisions went against us - no debate is going to chance your perception but perception and it being true are two different things 

Prove it. Prove the majority of let's even say just big decisions didn't go against us. Or that any other team had the same number of comparable big decisions that went against them last season. 

Put out all the smiley faces and retorts about paranoia that you want but you can't. And you'll likely be another one that's arguing against it whilst not having even watched the video to see the catalogue of decisions being discussed.

Without proof you're just all talk, no substance as usual........

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28 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

*you're 

I'm desperate for you to provide evidence. You can't and won't.

Prove it. Prove the majority of let's even say just big decisions didn't go against us. Or that any other team had the same number of comparable big decisions that went against them last season. 

Put out all the smiley faces and retorts about paranoia that you want but you can't. And you'll likely be another one that's arguing against it whilst not having even watched the video to see the catalogue of decisions being discussed.

Without proof you're just all talk, no substance as usual........

:lol: that’s the ‘god’ argument - prove god doesn’t exist! Good try but nae cigar! 

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46 minutes ago, Howsitgoing said:

Is Dave King also paranoid? He also believes that the spfl and the SFA have knowingly appointed people in power that has a conflict of interest to one team.

 

Dave King - paranoid - oh yes! Definately! And really citing Dave King as some paragon of virtue! :lol: 

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9 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

:lol: that’s the ‘god’ argument - prove god doesn’t exist! Good try but nae cigar! 

I'm asking you to justify an argument you're making. A comparable video of incidents, or a typed listing will do.

Prove that the majority of big decisions didn't go against us. Your argument.

Prove that ANY other spl team had comparable levels of injustices. Your argument.

If you can't do either it's because the evidence isn't there, not because it's an impossible request.

And I'll assume I was correct that you didn't bother viewing the clip you're arguing against and calling paranoia ?

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16 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Dave King - paranoid - oh yes! Definately! And really citing Dave King as some paragon of virtue! :lol: 

You have a persona to keep up, I understand that but your replacing it with idiocy.

These corrupt bastards at the SFA/spfl are not really leaving on their own free will and Santa Claus isn’t real.

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30 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

I'm asking you to justify an argument you're making. A comparable video of incidents, or a typed listing will do.

Prove that the majority of big decisions didn't go against us. Your argument.

Prove that ANY other spl team had comparable levels of injustices. Your argument.

If you can't do either it's because the evidence isn't there, not because it's an impossible request.

And I'll assume I was correct that you didn't bother viewing the clip you're arguing against and calling paranoia ?

Carlos Pena elbowing Greg Docherty in the face.

Carlos Pena elbowing a St. Johnstone player.

Carlos Pena's challenge on Dougie Imrie.

Ross McCrorie not being sent off v Aberdeen

Alfredo Morelos not being sent off at all last season despite a few kicks and sly punches aimed at opponents.

And these are just off the top of my head.

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Carlos Pena elbowing Greg Docherty in the face.

Carlos Pena elbowing a St. Johnstone player.

Carlos Pena's challenge on Dougie Imrie.

Ross McCrorie not being sent off v Aberdeen

Alfredo Morelos not being sent off at all last season despite a few kicks and sly punches aimed at opponents.

And these are just off the top of my head.

Those counter the incidents shown in the video?

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1 hour ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Yes. Things went in our favour. No one is disputing that. No one.

So who is giving them the arbitrary level of importance? Is the Ryan Jack one worse than the Pena one v St Johnstone where Pena scored the first two goals in a 3-0 win? Which one is more important/game changing?

Having a goal allowed that was offside? Game-changing? Or not that much since it went in our favour? Would it have been as big a deal if the same decision had been made to allow an Aberdeen goal against us?

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14 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So who is giving them the arbitrary level of importance? Is the Ryan Jack one worse than the Pena one v St Johnstone where Pena scored the first two goals in a 3-0 win? Which one is more important/game changing?

Having a goal allowed that was offside? Game-changing? Or not that much since it went in our favour? Would it have been as big a deal if the same decision had been made to allow an Aberdeen goal against us?

That's part of the debate. Game changing, proximity and clear view of ref, rescinded cards, similar incidents but individuals / teams treated differently, etc. All in the mix.

All teams have had some decisions go for, some against. Not disputing that.

 But we've had our standing stationary player rugby tackled .....and booked. Players assaulted and thrown to ground..... and booked.  Player brought down by keeper with contact evident due to his face blood splattered.... And our player booked for simulation. Players simulating headbutt in front of ref..... And our player red carded.  Our player punched in the baws, seen by the ref...... violent conduct was a yellow. 

Maybe go see if the scum forums "The IRA" poster has commented on these for you ?

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3 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

I'm asking you to justify an argument you're making. A comparable video of incidents, or a typed listing will do.

Prove that the majority of big decisions didn't go against us. Your argument.

Prove that ANY other spl team had comparable levels of injustices. Your argument.

If you can't do either it's because the evidence isn't there, not because it's an impossible request.

And I'll assume I was correct that you didn't bother viewing the clip you're arguing against and calling paranoia ?

:lol: I viewed the clip some shocking decisions - conspiracy my arse! As for the ‘god’ argument ... what ‘evidence’ have YOU presented that the ‘majority’ of incorrect decisions have gone against - I sure as hell hope your evidence is not that video! 

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19 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

:lol: I viewed the clip some shocking decisions - conspiracy my arse! As for the ‘god’ argument ... what ‘evidence’ have YOU presented that the ‘majority’ of incorrect decisions have gone against - I sure as hell hope your evidence is not that video! 

You keep going on about conspiracy. What is it about th at and paranoia that makes you keep chirping on about them when those aren't actually being rammed down your throat?

Are you suggesting we've NOT had the majority of decisions go against us? Confirm yes or no would be great.

1 hour ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

But we've had our standing stationary player rugby tackled .....and booked. Players assaulted and thrown to ground..... and booked.  Player brought down by keeper with contact evident due to his face blood splattered.... And our player booked for simulation. Players simulating headbutt in front of ref..... And our player red carded.  Our player punched in the baws, seen by the ref...... violent conduct was a yellow. 

See above. Also, we've had players on the worse end of tackles unpunished than ours have committed (on Cardoso, Jack, Rossiter compared to by Pena ). I'm happy to look at them all and see which is worst, imo Allen's.

Penalties? We've got away with a pen v hivs, maybe more you can think of, but in no way were they stronger shouts than Morelos getting his feet headered and booked for diving, or his pen that never was v the sheep.

So overall in terms of red cards issues, rescinded, penalty issues, our players booked for being fouled, serious foul play incidents, refs booking for violent conduct, injuries received from unpunished fouls, .... comprehensive.

See how easy it is to compile lists. 

Now are you going to do one to counter all that or are you going to come out with proving God exists as an argument for failing to do so? ?

And I'm not even discussing why I believe it to be so. Just that this season it is so.

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5 hours ago, The Dude said:

 

Fans of other teams DO say there is a bias against them. Motherwell fans think Craig Thomson is biased against them - citing the five red cards he issued this season with two being overturned - St/ Johnstone's manager has an issue with one referee's consistently poor performance to the point he has publicly criticised him in the media. Here we have them saying exactly what you think they would but for some reason it doesn't apply?

 

Trait 2. Deliberately miss the point. 

The Rangers supporters who believe there to be bias, do not believe that one referee is biased towards our club. We believe that all referees have a bias that has been generated over the last 8 years due to the pressure applied to them by certain clubs and their supporters while other clubs and their supporters have taken a dignified silence approach. 

Trait 1 Be Contrary

if you have watched all the Rangers games this season and feel that the decisions that have gone against us in those games. Compares equally to the decisions that have gone for us in those games. Then the discussion is over. 

In the interests of sporting investigative journalism why not create a spreadsheet and have a for and against list. Put down in the “for” list all the Pena red cards that never happened and all the Morelos red cards that never happened and then in the “against” column add in all the red cards we wrongly got or red card challenges that were overlooked and let’s see what it looks like. 

I am willing to accept that I am perceiving this incorrectly 

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