SG straight up the tunnel?

[The Dude 20,026]

6 minutes ago, Smile said:

Thanks for telling me that I just started supporting Rangers yesterday.

Would make sense tbh.

[Smile 26,600]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Would make sense tbh.

To you, I guess as it would make at least one of your posts stand up.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Smile said:

To you, I guess as it would make at least one of your posts stand up.

😂 You're beyond parody mate.

[Valance1690 3,821]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So if celtic were on the same form they'd romp the league but they keep dropping points and losing - despite the league getting worse since celtic went an entire season without losing. That doesn't really make much sense to me.

So there's no previous manager that was hounded for less than Gerrard's results?

Tbh, if folk don't want to criticise him that's up to them. If he deserves it he'll get it from me. So far the only real criticisms are relatively minor ones imo.

 

They have players who were playing far above their expectations etc, that's the only excuse I have for them as I don't watch them every game.

From what I've seen, who we've played, Aberdeen/Hearts are worse off than last season, Kilmarnock are a bit better and the rest are about the same. Livi being the new boys have done well. 

Well if we want to be pedantic, Pedro's team by this point last season had 30 points, 1 less than Gerrards & he was actually sacked a month before this point so aye, managers have been sacked for less than what Gerrard has done.

Europe has been his saviour and him/the squad deserve massive praise for that, for grinding their way through qualifiers (which on paper we should have been winning) but given that we were a new team it's a fantastic achievement to get as far as we did.

I don't want to crisitice the guy but I also don't want to be sitting in February after another chunk of money is spent thinking is he the right guy for the job, if he gets money in January then fair enough but it's a massive risk based on the first half of the season.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Valance1690 said:

They have players who were playing far above their expectations etc, that's the only excuse I have for them as I don't watch them every game. 

From what I've seen, who we've played, Aberdeen/Hearts are worse off than last season, Kilmarnock are a bit better and the rest are about the same. Livi being the new boys have done well. 

Well if we want to be pedantic, Pedro's team by this point last season had 30 points, 1 less than Gerrards & he was actually sacked a month before this point so aye, managers have been sacked for less than what Gerrard has done.

Europe has been his saviour and him/the squad deserve massive praise for that, for grinding their way through qualifiers (which on paper we should have been winning) but given that we were a new team it's a fantastic achievement to get as far as we did.

I don't want to crisitice the guy but I also don't want to be sitting in February after another chunk of money is spent thinking is he the right guy for the job, if he gets money in January then fair enough but it's a massive risk based on the first half of the season.

I must've missed Pedro's 14-game European run after reaching the group stage and just dreamt going out in the first round to Progres.

Don't hearts have more points so far this season than they did last?

So, what do you propose we do in January? Just leave him with what he has despite complaining that they aren't good enough? Seems a bit self-defeating and certainly won't do much to help us improve. Infact, I'd go as far as to say it's setting us up to fail.

[Smile 26,600]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

😂 You're beyond parody mate.

I get that a lot when posters know they have got it wrong.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Smile said:

I get that a lot when posters know they have got it wrong.

Who has got it wrong because I certainly haven't. 😂

[gsa 3,906]

45 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So you agree then that the stats don't back up the claim that 'we're no better than last year'.

If our team has no bottle and lack composure, how did we ever manage to get so far as we did in Europe? I'd have thought a team of bottle merchants would have crumbled much earlier.

All we need now is someone to say they don't look fit and we've got a full house on RM bullshit bingo.

 

I can see what you're saying and last seasons team would not have managed the hard fought wins and draws in Europe that we worked so hard for this season. So yes, there have been improvements. 

That being said, four games against Aberdeen and celtic and we've managed one point, we're level on points with Kilmarnock in the league and some of the football has been atrocious, we're dreadfully impotent in the final third. 

It's been a mixed bag and I think the next three weeks will be vital, we'll know exactly how far we've come after the 29th. Couple of wins against Hibs and a good performance against celtic, I'm not demanding we win, it's a game, anything can happen but we cannot sit off and admire them again. We need to see something more from the manager and players. 

[Valance1690 3,821]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I must've missed Pedro's 14-game European run after reaching the group stage and just dreamt going out in the first round to Progres.

Don't hearts have more points so far this season than they did last?

So, what do you propose we do in January? Just leave him with what he has despite complaining that they aren't good enough? Seems a bit self-defeating and certainly won't do much to help us improve. Infact, I'd go as far as to say it's setting us up to fail.

You didn't, what you fail to acknowledge though is the difference between Gerrard/Pedro is as simple as 1 got through the banana skin Europa League Qualifiers while the other didn't. 

Those teams in the qualifiers, I would expect us to beat with the money we've spent but can understand why a new squad who are together only a few weeks would struggle, hence why I get why it was impressive to get to the group stages.

Honestly, not sure if Hearts do but I'll take your word for it, if they do then doesn't that show an even poorer league given the fact they've literally torn their entire squad apart, even more than we have, yet they're still in the top 6 comfortably and led the league for a good few months? 

Moving forward, in January, if we're accepting Gerrard is staying then aye he needs to be supported by the board financially because what he has just now isn't good enough & as you said it would be self defeating to leave him with what he has. My issue is that I don't trust him to spend that money wisely given his previous dealings so would hope he now has scouts/more people in his backstaff who can support him in bringing players in who can improve us to kick on in the 2nd half of the season 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, gsa said:

I can see what you're saying and last seasons team would not have managed the hard fought wins and draws in Europe that we worked so hard for this season. So yes, there have been improvements. 

That being said, four games against Aberdeen and celtic and we've managed one point, we're level on points with Kilmarnock in the league and some of the football has been atrocious, we're dreadfully impotent in the final third. 

It's been a mixed bag and I think the next three weeks will be vital, we'll know exactly how far we've come after the 29th. Couple of wins against Hibs and a good performance against celtic, I'm not demanding we win, it's a game, anything can happen but we cannot sit off and admire them again. We need to see something more from the manager and players. 

Were level with Killie but also two points off top. We're nowhere near as impotent in the final third as some make out though - we're the top scorers in the league and after celtic (-2) the nearest to us is a gap of around 12.

Some of the performances haven't been great but if we can grind points out then I couldn't care less if we're watching shite football. There's no prizes awarded for playing pretty stuff. We still need some additions but we're nowhere near as far off as some suggest.

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

You didn't, what you fail to acknowledge though is the difference between Gerrard/Pedro is as simple as 1 got through the banana skin Europa League Qualifiers while the other didn't. 

Those teams in the qualifiers, I would expect us to beat with the money we've spent but can understand why a new squad who are together only a few weeks would struggle, hence why I get why it was impressive to get to the group stages.

Honestly, not sure if Hearts do but I'll take your word for it, if they do then doesn't that show an even poorer league given the fact they've literally torn their entire squad apart, even more than we have, yet they're still in the top 6 comfortably and led the league for a good few months? 

Moving forward, in January, if we're accepting Gerrard is staying then aye he needs to be supported by the board financially because what he has just now isn't good enough & as you said it would be self defeating to leave him with what he has. My issue is that I don't trust him to spend that money wisely given his previous dealings so would hope he now has scouts/more people in his backstaff who can support him in bringing players in who can improve us to kick on in the 2nd half of the season 

I'd have exected us to beat Progres with the money we spent too. We didn't. That was the beginning of the end for Pedro. Had we done as well in Europe under Pedro as we did under Gerrard, he wouldn't have been sacked when he was. There was some behind the scenes stuff too which tightened the noose around his neck (remember the presser which never saw the light of day?)

[Valance1690 3,821]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'd have exected us to beat Progres with the money we spent too. We didn't. That was the beginning of the end for Pedro. Had we done as well in Europe under Pedro as we did under Gerrard, he wouldn't have been sacked when he was. There was some behind the scenes stuff too which tightened the noose around his neck (remember the presser which never saw the light of day?)

Agreed, expected us to beat Progress too & that was the end of Pedro before the season even started. The presser details I do remember & if everything that's been said was true then fair enough, that did tighten the noose as you say. 

The difference between him and Gerrard is that Gerrard's team made it through those matches which has meant he's gotten a bit longer in the job, he deserved the Europa league run based solely on the fact he got us there but now that that's done, he needs to get us sorted very quickly domestically or questions do have to be asked about wether he's the right man for the job in my view.

Coinceidentaly, interested here on a personal level, do you think Gerrard is the right man to take the club forward? Taking away from everything else i.e how much it would cost to sack him etc.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Valance1690 said:

Agreed, expected us to beat Progress too & that was the end of Pedro before the season even started. The presser details I do remember & if everything that's been said was true then fair enough, that did tighten the noose as you say.  

The difference between him and Gerrard is that Gerrard's team made it through those matches which has meant he's gotten a bit longer in the job, he deserved the Europa league run based solely on the fact he got us there but now that that's done, he needs to get us sorted very quickly domestically or questions do have to be asked about wether he's the right man for the job in my view.

Coinceidentaly, interested here on a personal level, do you think Gerrard is the right man to take the club forward? Taking away from everything else i.e how much it would cost to sack him etc.

I do. And I'm not really a fan of him pre-Rangers. (his first autobiography really soured me on him). He understands the extra steps needed to go from being a decent player to a truly fantastic player as well as knowing how to motivate players around him. He's surrounded himself with guys who know their way around a training pitch and can tailor sessions to help get the very best out of players - his own lack of experience there is covered by having the likes of McAllister and Mick Beale. His own reputation as a player has its benefits as it will attract players to us that might not have had us on their radar previously too as well as giving us an in to getting some decent youngsters from Liverpool. Ejaria's not been great but Kent has been a good signing imo. If we can get Solanke in January i think it'll give us a bit more depth in attack and help take the strain off Morelos a bit.

[gsa 3,906]

12 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Were level with Killie but also two points off top. We're nowhere near as impotent in the final third as some make out though - we're the top scorers in the league and after celtic (-2) the nearest to us is a gap of around 12.

Some of the performances haven't been great but if we can grind points out then I couldn't care less if we're watching shite football. There's no prizes awarded for playing pretty stuff. We still need some additions but we're nowhere near as far off as some suggest.

I disagree, I don't think enough of the players have the quality required and I'm less than convinced by Gerrard. Hopefully you'll be correct.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, gsa said:

I disagree, I don't think enough of the players have the quality required and I'm less than convinced by Gerrard. Hopefully you'll be correct.

There's a definite need for quality to be added but then looking back at previous title-winning Rangers teams, I can pick a number of players from many of them who, in isolation, lacked the quality.

 

[Valance1690 3,821]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I do. And I'm not really a fan of him pre-Rangers. (his first autobiography really soured me on him). He understands the extra steps needed to go from being a decent player to a truly fantastic player as well as knowing how to motivate players around him. He's surrounded himself with guys who know their way around a training pitch and can tailor sessions to help get the very best out of players - his own lack of experience there is covered by having the likes of McAllister and Mick Beale. His own reputation as a player has its benefits as it will attract players to us that might not have had us on their radar previously too as well as giving us an in to getting some decent youngsters from Liverpool. Ejaria's not been great but Kent has been a good signing imo. If we can get Solanke in January i think it'll give us a bit more depth in attack and help take the strain off Morelos a bit.

Fair enough, can't argue with that & agree about his autobiography, really doesn't paint him in a good light! 

Really do hope you're right because as much as I don't agree with things, I'll always want a manager to do well for the club for obvious reasons. 

The one thing I 100% agree with is the fact that Gerrard will attract players we couldn't get before, names who would just come for the sole fact of player under Gerrard. Ejaria started well & Kent would be a good signing if we could get him on the cheap. Solanke I've heard alot about without seeing much but people more experienced than me think he would be a good loan signing so would be happy with that.

It's the money that worries me, how do we give a rookie manager another 2/3/4/5 million or however much it is when his current signings aren't exactly on fire? Even if 1 of them were playing well it would give him the ammunition to say I need more money because I can identify the players we need...as it stands he can't say that! 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

Fair enough, can't argue with that & agree about his autobiography, really doesn't paint him in a good light! 

Really do hope you're right because as much as I don't agree with things, I'll always want a manager to do well for the club for obvious reasons. 

The one thing I 100% agree with is the fact that Gerrard will attract players we couldn't get before, names who would just come for the sole fact of player under Gerrard. Ejaria started well & Kent would be a good signing if we could get him on the cheap. Solanke I've heard alot about without seeing much but people more experienced than me think he would be a good loan signing so would be happy with that.

It's the money that worries me, how do we give a rookie manager another 2/3/4/5 million or however much it is when his current signings aren't exactly on fire? Even if 1 of them were playing well it would give him the ammunition to say I need more money because I can identify the players we need...as it stands he can't say that! 

There's a quote from Sir Alex about transfers and his view was that if half of your signings a season were a success then that's a good hit rate. Arguably 3 of the 15 have been poor. Few others have the jury still out and some have impressed. Need to remember Mark Allan is a big part of the transfer strategy at the club too. Gerrard has much less autonomy on transfers than almost any of his predecessors.

[Valance1690 3,821]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

There's a quote from Sir Alex about transfers and his view was that if half of your signings a season were a success then that's a good hit rate. Arguably 3 of the 15 have been poor. Few others have the jury still out and some have impressed. Need to remember Mark Allan is a big part of the transfer strategy at the club too. Gerrard has much less autonomy on transfers than almost any of his predecessors.

The fact Allen has now had 6+ months in the role is the only thing which gives me confidence the signings could be better.

Fully believe the ones in the summer were all Gerrard's own doing. He seen Barisic against us and wanted him (the board backed him) & can only assume he seen Grezda in the scouting for Osjtek and that's where that signing came from. Both were worrying at the time because it surely meant that we didn't have other options or that our other options fell through.

Loan signings I'm less bothered about, as long as they're better than what we have currently, I'm more than happy for them to come to the club for a chance because it's the only realistic way we will get some of these players who we're being linked with

[plumbGER 24,518]

I can see both sides of this argument, there have been improvements at the club and in Europe exceeding most of our expectations.

However, we have went stagnant domestically as teams suss us out, ok we are only 2 off top but that's more down to the beggars losing a few key players and not replacing them with quality and subsequently struggling for form. I think stats would also back this up.

We are very much a work in progress and Gerrard needs to learn quickly, I think he will and although we have had a few disappointing defeats we haven't received a doing.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

19 hours ago, ritchieshearercaldow said:

Think he might be angry ?

I would be, he can’t defend that lot.

It does have to be remembered he once lasted about 30 seconds against man u so we probably wouldn't like him when he's angry so he's as well up the tunnel  

[OhW 4,669]

49 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'd have exected us to beat Progres with the money we spent too. We didn't. That was the beginning of the end for Pedro. 

1-5 was the end of him for me.

[TopCat 4,511]

Very disappointed in Stevie tbh. I think the least he could have done was applaud our magnificent travelling support.

 

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and put it down to him hurting badly at our European exit.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

2 hours ago, Valance1690 said:

They have players who were playing far above their expectations etc, that's the only excuse I have for them as I don't watch them every game.

From what I've seen, who we've played, Aberdeen/Hearts are worse off than last season, Kilmarnock are a bit better and the rest are about the same. Livi being the new boys have done well. 

Well if we want to be pedantic, Pedro's team by this point last season had 30 points, 1 less than Gerrards & he was actually sacked a month before this point so aye, managers have been sacked for less than what Gerrard has done.

Europe has been his saviour and him/the squad deserve massive praise for that, for grinding their way through qualifiers (which on paper we should have been winning) but given that we were a new team it's a fantastic achievement to get as far as we did.

I don't want to crisitice the guy but I also don't want to be sitting in February after another chunk of money is spent thinking is he the right guy for the job, if he gets money in January then fair enough but it's a massive risk based on the first half of the season.

Utter pish.

[Valance1690 3,821]

7 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

Utter pish.

Cheers for the input, insightful 👍

[Weird_Beard 99]

On 14/12/2018 at 00:55, The Dude said:

Middleton has contributed more this season than Lafferty.

Lafferty - 5 goals, 1 assist in 23 appearances for us and Hearts (1049 minutes)

Middleton - 5 goals, 4 assists in 21 appearances. (808 minutes).

That was my point.