Rick Roberts - Troublesome tribalism: does it matter who asks the questions?

[Bad Robot 21,148]

Another fantastic blog but please Give the link a click so the guy gets the hits please rather than a copy and past of the text:

https://uppingtheoutput.home.blog/2019/05/29/trouble-tribalism-does-it-matter-who-asks-the-questions/

[rabc10000 5,061]

Had a quick read and yeah he's correct. You can bet your life if every other Scottish fan, as mentioned in the article was demanding an enquiry into those scumbags then their would have been one years ago. 

 

Unfortunately as I keep hearing from friends outwith Scotland what they done was wrong and the culprits have been dealt with and anything more is nothing more than bitterness as they have won everything over the last 8 years. 

However outwith our fan base I think that's the majority of Scotland thinking as well 

[five stars 1,621]

Good read.

[SonOfLuther 3,400]

Excellent read.

One thing is for sure here..

"That’s for the conscience of Celtics spinners and the Scottish press and politicians to ponder – those at Parkhead, Holyrood, Pacific Quay, the Daily Record, the Herald, the Scotsman, Channel 4 etcetera.."

 

If there is a conscience here, then they are going against it. 

That is neither right nor safe.

 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

That's bloody well written, fair, and accurate too. I'll be sharing that 👍

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Good read. 

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

46 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

Another fantastic blog but please Give the link a click so the guy gets the hits please rather than a copy and past of the text:

https://uppingtheoutput.home.blog/2019/05/29/trouble-tribalism-does-it-matter-who-asks-the-questions/

Have been through his blog and this guy scribes some seriously good shit.

[Bad Robot 21,148]

36 minutes ago, rabc10000 said:

Had a quick read and yeah he's correct. You can bet your life if every other Scottish fan, as mentioned in the article was demanding an enquiry into those scumbags then their would have been one years ago. 

 

Unfortunately as I keep hearing from friends outwith Scotland what they done was wrong and the culprits have been dealt with and anything more is nothing more than bitterness as they have won everything over the last 8 years. 

However outwith our fan base I think that's the majority of Scotland thinking as well 

The thing to me is that it’s nothing to do with the trophies they have won lately as Rangers fans have been calling it out long before the last 8 years so that argument doesn’t stand up but that tribe won’t be convinced. 

The others in Scotland seemed to have sided with that tribe and all put the knives in as we lay there bleeding. They now can’t seem to jump ship as they know what they done to us was unforgivable but would rather side with a tribe who are up to their knees in one of the worst crimes on the planet. 

[Bad Robot 21,148]

1 minute ago, Blue Avenger said:

Have been through his blog and this guy scribes some seriously good shit.

He does indeed. Anything I’ve read has always been top notch but this latest scribe is bang right on the kipper.

[Bobby Hume 13,035]

👍

Cheers OP 

Well written blog ..... this is one secret that needs to be revealed and anyone involved .... anywhere .... exposed .... regardless of their affiliation.

🇬🇧 

[pcbear 10,913]

Excellent piece, channel 4 gets a mention as one of the organisations anti us, well Alex Thomson their chief correspondent ( remember the bold Alex on our case like a Jack Russell with a bone EBT time) the same man who wrote an approving comment in 3 names book, the same book edited by Angela Haggerty.

Alex has went a wee bit quiet on the celtic potential blockbuster, no Jack Russell or bone at present, why would that be for a guy who could not button up for years to be silent now?

[rabc10000 5,061]

8 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

The thing to me is that it’s nothing to do with the trophies they have won lately as Rangers fans have been calling it out long before the last 8 years so that argument doesn’t stand up but that tribe won’t be convinced. 

The others in Scotland seemed to have sided with that tribe and all put the knives in as we lay there bleeding. They now can’t seem to jump ship as they know what they done to us was unforgivable but would rather side with a tribe who are up to their knees in one of the worst crimes on the planet. 

It does stand up as outwith Scotland, and even just now most don't know what's happened or how long it has been going on for. Unfortunately your the exact same as me and think because i/we know the full story and how long it's went on for then everyone worldwide should know as well when in all honestly it's far from the truth 

[mrmojorisin 13,613]

That was an interesting read 

[cr3_bear 14,830]

The witch hunt from media , politicians and those high up at Scottish football over our finances compared to the snippets here and there over this is the clearest indication of where this country is.

Stupid Bastards screaming their moral outrage over tax while probably writing blogs from their apple product , researching their information on google and ordering their latest edition of ill phills book off amazon. While their beloved football club has decades of child abuse swept under its bulging carpet.

[mrmojorisin 13,613]

They are not normal 

 

lack of genes and hygiene 

[Negri's lovechild 13,988]

Really good article there

 

[SonOfLuther 3,400]

1 hour ago, pcbear said:

Excellent piece, channel 4 gets a mention as one of the organisations anti us, well Alex Thomson their chief correspondent ( remember the bold Alex on our case like a Jack Russell with a bone EBT time) the same man who wrote an approving comment in 3 names book, the same book edited by Angela Haggerty.

Alex has went a wee bit quiet on the celtic potential blockbuster, no Jack Russell or bone at present, why would that be for a guy who could not button up for years to be silent now?

[35 Yard Dangerman 3,476]

Tried to read it, the technophobe in me reliably reared its ugly head again tho. I'll get it one day.

I know by the posts about it from posters whom on here I rate, i know I'm in for a decent wee viewing.

[SonOfLuther 3,400]

3 minutes ago, 35 Yard Dangerman said:

Tried to read it, the technophobe in me reliably reared its ugly head again tho. I'll get it one day.

I know by the posts about it from posters whom on here I rate, i know I'm in for a decent wee viewing.

That’s the problem with the tribal nature of football at times, and of football and politics in Scotland – folk will act tribally. You’d be wrong to assume anything else. The loyalty to your own group, or identity, conditions you against impartiality; and more so when that impartiality damages your tribe.

So where a situation arises that requires digging, leg-work, probity, disclosure, then only those proven to be wholly professional, non-conflicted or uninhibited would be trusted to deliver to a suitable standard.

Within that there’s another truism. A member of the opposite tribe will typically dig deeper, work harder and longer if it derives damages to an opposing tribe.

Case and point. Rangers tax case. The genesis of this appears to be a leak of certain private documents which then ended up in the hands of celtic fans. A resolute process then set in motion. Evidence was harvested and then sculpted into a formidable weapon. Other structures were constructed around this and the rest is what it is. The cry to this day is that crimes were committed and justice had to be done.

A rather obvious fact of this entire process is that the key players were not Rangers fans, in fact it was predominately celtic fans or had links back to celtic. The press in particular had a large influence throughout the course of events.

All of which throws up another couple of permutations to consider. How would the whole saga have turned out had Rangers fans been in control of the information? How would the saga, coverage and outcomes have looked had celtic used EBTs to the same extend?

As per the opening statement of this article both would presumably look a lot different. Rangers fans would downplay events or certainly not consider them worthy of the shit-show that subsequently ensued. The truth is we’d probably have sat on any leaked documents and the chain reaction would never have begun. The same applies to a switch in character positions. celtic fans would not have gathered data against their club, would not have built a case and driven it through – especially if they’d suspected a possible endpoint to be liquidation and newco of the holding company and a demotion to the bottom division. This anticipated level of damage is an important factor, it’s easy to make concessions when there’s no consequences, not so much when your clubs future depends on it.

This anticipated level of damage is an important factor, it’s easy to make concessions when there’s no consequences, not so much when your clubs future depends on it.

Can we actually predict those outcomes with any confidence? Yes, we probably can. The press and BBC Scotland performance on topical football-based debates over the past decade support the theory. As an example, coverage on sectarian singing has been selective. Head-lines proclaimed, discussions arranged across the network and platforms. celtic-friendly experts have been brought in and feel comfortable and emboldened enough to freely debate the issues, when they relate to Rangers that is. Yet when it occurs elsewhere, against their tribe, the debate is never held. Simple as that.

More importantly, it is relevant to the ongoing coverage (or cover-up) of the celtic child abuse scandal. The coverage simply doesn’t add up. The story has not grown organically or remotely to scale of the severity. The clamour for results, to unearth information and facts and see it all through to the logical conclusion has been found wanting. If we consider that this is the self-same press that gorged themselves on the Rangers tax case, then it is not that much of a surprise. It can be explained by the same tribal behaviour.

This throws up questions on conflicts of interest. In short, any investigation or coverage cannot be expected to be completed satisfactorily if key personnel are conflicted, or tribally inclined to either suppress evidence or simply not dig for it in the first place.

There’s a point here – which can be extrapolated from the progress of the scandal so far – if the victims want to be unreservedly represented, if they want their story and situation to be investigated and reported, to its exhaustible limits, then that is unlikely if people with a conflict of interest are involved. It’s a tribal certainty in fact. Some detractors certainly appear more concerned with who is asking the question, than the question itself. Crimes have been committed and justice had to be done, remember. They are also over-looking why others aren’t asking the questions, when that too is pretty obvious.

People from the same tribe can absolutely fail such an investigation, knowingly fail, but the opposite isn’t true. A serious investigation cannot be investigated too much, cannot be over-worked, too many facts cannot be unearthed. It’s not point scoring to see serious crimes given an appropriate chance at justice. It is point-scoring to deny that justice for the sake of your tribal compass.

As a disclosure it may come as no shock that celtic aren’t my tribe. I support the rival tribe of Rangers. I know some good folk who support celtic and even enjoy supporting them. But I don’t like celtic, the club. They exist, I’ll concede that much to them. The sanctimonious and quixotic mythologies they peddle are mawkish and tiresome. I find the unrepentant support of republican terror groups offensive and I’ve never seen what part or future it has in Scotland.

Like every man and his dog I’d heard rumours about celtic for as long as I can remember. The trials in the 90s came and went. Rumours persisted. Social media opened up a world of discussion and information that was unavailable before. Facts came to light. Naturally these would lend themselves to theories and the jigsaw, of perception and probability, would start to take form. The attitude and behaviour of celtic in response to the scandal did little to endear this onlooker. New facts, new theories. Same old response from celtic. Then Rangers tax case blew up. The behaviour of the celtic support was something else and often still is; especially knowing that their own club had this scandal skulking in the background. Then again maybe that’s a reason why they attacked Rangers with such desperate primal vigour?

So yes, hands up, I don’t like celtic. I don’t want to see them get away with anything. I expect the full force of the law and of any governing bodies to be brought to them where-ever it is merited. Much like they did with Rangers tax issues.

I use several examples above to set out some points but let’s not pretend that these are in anyway equivalent. Under a socially conditioned level of loading the membrane containing tribal allegiances should burst. The laws of a footballing governing body are one thing. The laws of the land and the protection of children is another. In absolute terms one is many orders of magnitude bigger.

Could my conscience cope with knowing that the management of my football club had inserted a line in a remuneration contract of a player to enable it to pursue loophole-based tax efficiency schemes? Probably, yes.

You’re clearly not going to hold the guilty parties to account, so it should be no surprise that rival tribes will.

Would the same be true for the crimes committed, or acts carried out, under-the-guise-of and then in-the-name-of celtic? I’d like to think not. That’s for the conscience of Celtics spinners and the Scottish press and politicians to ponder – those at Parkhead, Holyrood, Pacific Quay, the Daily Record, the Herald, the Scotsman, Channel 4 etcetera. Sports clubs and religious organisation most definitely should be included in any inquiry. You’re clearly not going to hold the guilty parties to account, so it should be no surprise that rival tribes will. Rangers, like all clubs, should be part of any inquiry. The inquiry must be thorough and must be ruthless and exhaustive. If Rangers and Rangers people have questions to answer, then so be it. That would be disappointing, probably heart-breaking to be honest, but ultimately necessary. Absolutely.

 

No intention of going against your wishes OP, a good number of posts down now.

[Malkster 4,878]

The problem with this wee backwater is no one outside of Rangers fans gives a shit.

It's down to us to push for justice

[Malkster 4,878]

2 hours ago, pcbear said:

Excellent piece, channel 4 gets a mention as one of the organisations anti us, well Alex Thomson their chief correspondent ( remember the bold Alex on our case like a Jack Russell with a bone EBT time) the same man who wrote an approving comment in 3 names book, the same book edited by Angela Haggerty.

Alex has went a wee bit quiet on the celtic potential blockbuster, no Jack Russell or bone at present, why would that be for a guy who could not button up for years to be silent now?

because as Rick Roberts states in his article Thomson has no appetite for disclosure on this subject

 

as with SoL's post a picture paints a thousand words

[pcbear 10,913]

8 hours ago, SonOfLuther said:

So who has muzzled the Jack Russell, he certainly was busy 2012-2016.

[SonOfLuther 3,400]

1 minute ago, pcbear said:

So who has muzzled the Jack Russell, he certainly was busy 2012-2016.

Is Cosgrove still there?

Savilite that cunt.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

You would think that Rangers had no supporters anywhere in any senior position reading that blog - only them, and every other team supporting them as a default of not supporting us, has any influence. Utter non-sense.

Basically another paranoid posting pandering to the blue paranoia that is growing in our support. 

[Bad Robot 21,148]

6 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

You would think that Rangers had no supporters anywhere in any senior position reading that blog - only them, and every other team supporting them as a default of not supporting us, has any influence. Utter non-sense.

Basically another paranoid posting pandering to the blue paranoia that is growing in our support. 

and another post by yourself that goes against everyone else 🤷‍♂️

No wonder people block you while you try troll them into an argument.

I award you nil points, and may god have mercy on your soul.