Utterly shambolic article from Leckie

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

3 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

1. He said it was the reason. The actual reason. Eye witnesses say otherwise. Are you confirming he's right despite not being present over Rangers fans who were?

2. Nice story, but back to Sunday. Anti RC songs non stop he said. Which songs? Non stop? So if I can evidence songs sung that weren't anti RC youd agree specifically regards Sunday that he was wrong?

3. "The club have said not one word  about these anthems. They never do. Neither did they publicly criticise their own players for openly encouraging fans who came on the park. Yet they were double-quick to accuse Kilmarnock of having crappy turnstiles, hopeless stewarding and even caned the flimsiness of that disabled enclosure, which really should have been tested for its roof’s ability to support a celebrating mob"

So clearly you're wrong. Mistaken, deflecting or lying? Not sure tbh,.

 

Leckie is part of the MSM who dehumanise Rangers. Look at the blood thirst over Sunday compared to other times almost identical incidents have happened.  A few dafties on pitches aligned to thousands invading during a scf with players assaulted, dozens invading at Motherwell challenging fans to fight. The very same issue of a late goal at the same stadium drew minimal MSM attention when celtic supporters did it. 

Scum fans in bigger numbers doing it longer and ignoring authorities at Pittodrie again drew no criticism. Though the roof didnt give in, is that really the difference.

Crushing at the tarrier place saw summits, enquiries and concern for all. Rangers fans? Impatient and at fault.  As Couryyard says you continue to spectacularly miss the point when condemning our fans. 

You dont even realise on your thirst to blame and condemn the the end goal is strict liability, hammer clubs for fans. And worryingly theres no chance we'd be treated as fairly as others. And no that's not paranoia.

dehumanise - really - your going down that paranoid route - the article was pretty balanced - but all you see is that ? Standards are poor in the MSM - but really ....

Your whole last section smacks of paranoia - instead of asking what should be done to curb ALL these incidents - you go down the whataboutery route - but then again you are just 'defending' us so you cant see anything but some sort of ' but what about them mister, they did it first.' 

As I have said - we all need to sort this before someone gets badly hurt, fans, clubs and authorities - meanwhile all fans of all clubs play the 'It was them that did it first mister' as if that's some sort of rationale 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,714]

22 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Yes - and somehow that's an excuse in your book! Why climb on the roof at all? 

Because they wanted to stand out as they celebrated. The same way some stand on seats to gloat over to certain opponents fans when we score. Similar to the way you see guys run down stairs to the front after a goal. Passion. Daft actions caused by passion, that tbh would likely not have made headlines if the roof hadn't collapsed, or it wasnt Rangers fans involved.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

4 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Intentions - I don't think they thought at all - and therein lies the issue. 

For the most part we shouldn't have to.

Ever see those green  signs with the wee walking man with an arrow on it, despite the fact there might only be one direction to go to get out. So we are all daft right?

In health and safety we legislate for the lowest common denominator. 

The first duty of care rests with the asset owner to ensure all ALL scenarios are considered, ALL hazards are identified, risk assessed, mitigated and control measures put in place to prevent accidents happening to protect those at work and the public at large. 

We as individuals have a duty of care to follow all precautions and control measures put in place to prevent accidents happening and to protect yourself.

Now, what was missing at Kilmarnock?

Effective crowd management to prevent crushing and allow safe access to your seat and watch the game in safety. That is in clear breach of health and safety management regs and the h&s at work act.

No signage or barriers to prevent or warn  members of the public that  the platform/roof of the disabled shelter that was clearly accessible and was clearly unsafe as was proven when fans accessed it. However that also highlights a second safety hazard in that if the crowd had to evacuate from the stand to the pitch for any reason they would have to access it via a structure and platform that has been shown not to be fit for purpose and yes in those circumstances people could have been seriously injured or killed.

A fans exhuberent behaviour is one thing and as seen there was no malice or intent to hurt or jeopordise the safety of others, but clear breaches of health and safety law by the asset owner is another, in failing to protect the public via signage or prevent access via barriers for those who are otherwise unfamiliar and no knowledge in the safety aspects and integrity of the said facility.

We go to law. Who is in breach? The exhuberent sporting fans and members of the public or the asset owner?

I rest my case m'lord.

 

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

9 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

 

 

 

 

😂😂😂😂😂

... you are excusing daftness now - that's an argument ? 'Ach, sorry I stole that money - I was wild mad with exuberance at the time your honour. I was just daft' .... seems plausible.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,714]

Just now, Bluepeter9 said:

dehumanise - really - your going down that paranoid route - the article was pretty balanced - but all you see is that ? Standards are poor in the MSM - but really ....

Your whole last section smacks of paranoia - instead of asking what should be done to curb ALL these incidents - you go down the whataboutery route - but then again you are just 'defending' us so you cant see anything but some sort of ' but what about them mister, they did it first.' 

As I have said - we all need to sort this before someone gets badly hurt, fans, clubs and authorities - meanwhile all fans of all clubs play the 'It was them that did it first mister' as if that's some sort of rationale 

If strict liability was brought in, would there be parity in how we and all clubs were treated?

Do you accept the phrase trial by Sportscene?

Last season, do you think we deserved to be bottom of the fair play table?

 

I'd be happy for the game to improve collectively, if the rules were fair and were applied fairly, then overseen impartially. U see nothing to suggest that will ever be the case.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Because they wanted to stand out as they celebrated. The same way some stand on seats to gloat over to certain opponents fans when we score. Similar to the way you see guys run down stairs to the front after a goal. Passion. Daft actions caused by passion, that tbh would likely not have made headlines if the roof hadn't collapsed, or it wasnt Rangers fans involved.

So now you ARE excusing their behaviour! So standing on seats (like 'they' done at Ibrox and broke a few) - just dafties - nothing to see here!

There was a roof there - well lets climb up and be noticed! Well they got that!

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

1 minute ago, Bluepeter9 said:

... you are excusing daftness now - that's an argument ? 'Ach, sorry I stole that money - I was wild mad with exuberance at the time your honour. I was just daft' .... seems plausible.

Stealing is with intent exhuberent or not and covered by different law, so your retort is nonsensical.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,714]

4 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

... you are excusing daftness now - that's an argument ? 'Ach, sorry I stole that money - I was wild mad with exuberance at the time your honour. I was just daft' .... seems plausible.

I'm laughing at you for what the post trail shows which is you actually agreeing with my 1st post that you were critical of.😂

[Robb 176]

Leckie and Spiers are defo rattling each other and baw/arse deep while making up shite. 

Journalism is on its arse now. Just made up shite. Although it always was. 

They are there to get a reaction. And they do. 

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

4 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

The first duty of care rests with the asset owner to ensure all ALL scenarios are considered, ALL hazards are identified, risk assessed, mitigated and control measures put in place to prevent accidents happening to protect those at work and the public at large. 

We as individuals have a duty of care to follow all precautions and control measures put in place to prevent accidents happening and to protect yourself.

 

 

Ach there was nothing to tell me not to - so I stuck my hand in the furnace - FFS! 

Yes - H&S tries to deal with all sorts of bad practice and human stupidity but what the fuck happened to decency and common sense.

Err no one told me I couldn't step on the roof!

Perhaps the Rangers fans who fell through the roof will sue for the shock they got at it collapsing!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

I'm laughing at you for what the post trail shows which is you actually agreeing with my 1st post that you were critical of.😂

I was critical of you using that as an excuse.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,714]

5 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

So now you ARE excusing their behaviour! So standing on seats (like 'they' done at Ibrox and broke a few) - just dafties - nothing to see here!

There was a roof there - well lets climb up and be noticed! Well they got that!

I'm explaining what I believe to be behind their actions. Thats not the same as excusing or defending. Daftness isnt a defence, but it might well be the explanation.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

I'm explaining what I believe to be behind their actions. Thats not the same as excusing or defending. Daftness isnt a defence, but it might well be the explanation.

So glad you finally agree with me!

 

Love u xx

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,714]

1 minute ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I was critical of you using that as an excuse.

I've not once excused anyone.  Though I will excuse anyone who opened gates to alleviate crushing.

Interesting you appear to interpret my posting what I believe to be the reason for something happening as an excuse. Your need to blame Rangers fans for things probably makes it your default position.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,714]

1 minute ago, Bluepeter9 said:

So glad you finally agree with me!

 

Love u xx

Yes, I agree Leckie lied repeatedly 

Xxx

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

Just now, Bluepeter9 said:

Ach there was nothing to tell me not to - so I stuck my hand in the furnace - FFS! 

Yes - H&S tries to deal with all sorts of bad practice and human stupidity but what the fuck happened to decency and common sense.

Err no one told me I couldn't step on the roof!

Perhaps the Rangers fans who fell through the roof will sue for the shock they got at it collapsing!

Emmm, to safeguard the public at large, that IS how it works. 

As I said the first duty of care is with the asset owner. Only they know the hazards and risks associated with their facility. It is NOT for members of the public to guess where and what they are and how they can protect thenselves from them. You do get that?!

In the case of a furnace, warning signs must be clearly visible,  barriers to prevent unauthorised access and in extreme cases in so far as reasonably practicable,  to clad all hot surfaces to reduce the temperature as to not cause injury. 

As for roofs the very same applies. Failure to apply adequate safety measure and someone gets hurt you will be prosecuted and the offended party party compensated. Not that it would make much difference if they end up dead.

Now you aint daft, you are simply being beligerent in defending an untenible position and flawed premise and therein lies your problem.

 

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,137]

1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Leaving aside your last comment - there is nothing I disagree with there but would like to add...

The roof does not collapse if folk don't climb and jump on it and its obvious they shouldn't.

The crush doesn't happen if folk are not impatient.

People do stupid things when emotions get the better of them is not an excuse. 

Or are you one of these people who always thinks its someone else's fault - someone else's responsibility?

 

The roof, were there barriers there to prevent folk jumping on it, unsafe or not?

So folk shouldn’t be impatient fearing they miss the start of the game, you’ve obviously never experienced the crush at a bus stop for the last bus home from Glasgow.

You obviously have no emotions or you would know better

It’s the responsibility of those in control to ensure the safety of those not in control, that’s why we have safety regulations.

Can I ask you how you would feel if it had been a bunch of kids jumping on that roof (with no obstructions) and they fell through.

And before you say grown men should know better, well aye but booze and emotions can soon turn grown men into children.

 

[Falcoholic 1,348]

14 hours ago, mrmojorisin said:

Bwaaahaaahaaa

Is this the yahoo that said on his dating profile that he would be quite happy sitting at home watching Greys Anatomy?

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

That moron is nothing more than a beast at work.

 

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

51 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Ach there was nothing to tell me not to - so I stuck my hand in the furnace - FFS! 

Yes - H&S tries to deal with all sorts of bad practice and human stupidity but what the fuck happened to decency and common sense.

Err no one told me I couldn't step on the roof!

Perhaps the Rangers fans who fell through the roof will sue for the shock they got at it collapsing!

I don't often agree with BA, but you can take it from a fully qualified safety adviser with 30 years experience in "the game" in various roles from a large organisations adviser to various authorised persons roles that he's pretty much on the ball.   Had there been injuries or worse culpability would initially be directed toward the owners of the facility and whether they'd done enough to protect members of the public attending an event they'd put on.  Initially they'd look to ensure they'd discharged their legal duties under the HASAW Act, Management Regs and HSG154 amongst others.   This will include treating visiting spectators like unknowing idiots, requiring fragile roof warning signs, barriers etc., and will expect them to put in measures to ensure safe access and egress to their facility.  If the process in place for access is so slow that it causes impatience amongst spectators then the process is wrong....this is reasonably foreseeable.  Etc etc.  

Whilst there is clearly an element of personal responsibility (a court would decide what that should have been...unless there's legal precedent) that would be considered once the occupiers duty of care had been fully analysed    

From the information we have so far it sounds as though Kilmarnocks event management was poor on the day, it sounds as if Kilmarnocks safety arrangements need to be reviewed and, yes, some culpability lies with spectators...but it's minor and lies somewhere within encroachment onto the field of play area.   Not much else.

 

[WCPRANGERS1 2,997]

55 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

Emmm, to safeguard the public at large, that IS how it works. 

As I said the first duty of care is with the asset owner. Only they know the hazards and risks associated with their facility. It is NOT for members of the public to guess where and what they are and how they can protect thenselves from them. You do get that?!

In the case of a furnace, warning signs must be clearly visible,  barriers to prevent unauthorised access and in extreme cases in so far as reasonably practicable,  to clad all hot surfaces to reduce the temperature as to not cause injury. 

As for roofs the very same applies. Failure to apply adequate safety measure and someone gets hurt you will be prosecuted and the offended party party compensated. Not that it would make much difference if they end up dead.

Now you aint daft, you are simply being beligerent in defending an untenible position and flawed premise and therein lies your problem.

 

I've said it a few times since the game but say worst case scenario there's something like a fire at the back of the stand which causes a surge forward? That roof being unstable could make matters a lot worse.

[STEPPS BOY 73,889]

Open season against us, our fans getting slaughtered.

An insipid MD

Major shareholder living in another country.

A fucking idiot in charge of our PR.

All of them not giving a fuck.

 

 

[Falcoholic 1,348]

10 hours ago, GeeSS said:

Can you point out one just one lie  please because I can’t find one! 

 

Had you been there you would know that:-

1. The crowd weren't being prevented from getting in to the stand because of being searched.

2. There wasn't 90 mins of anti catholic bigotry. A couple of renditions of the Billy Boys which refers to "fenians" is not anti catholic. Check out the Oxford English dictionary for the meaning of the word, you'll probably find it under 'F'. That same word that the unwashed hordes saw fit to emblazon on a banner that they themselves made and unfurled at their filthy den of paedophilia the previous day

3. The exit gate wasn't forced open. It was opened by someone unseen by me but it did relieve the crush at the front and stewards were checking the tickets of those going through the gate. Strange though that an "exit" gate opens inwards only don't you think. Fire doors and emergency exits generally open in the direction of the escapees running from the emergency. Perhaps that's something else that kilmarnock fc should be looking at. The emergency gates at Ibrox open outwards, if you notice, that's if you go often.

There's three out and out lies for ya. If you'd like to me to go into the backing in of Police Horses and the coralling of the crowd by stewards and police, the failure of the "High Tech" killie ticketing system and the 1950's turnstile arrangements gimme a shout

 

[Domthenbud 899]

1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Ach there was nothing to tell me not to - so I stuck my hand in the furnace - FFS! 

Yes - H&S tries to deal with all sorts of bad practice and human stupidity but what the fuck happened to decency and common sense.

Err no one told me I couldn't step on the roof!

Perhaps the Rangers fans who fell through the roof will sue for the shock they got at it collapsing!

And they may well win. A roof obviously easily accessible, could be used as an escape route in the event of an incident, with no warning that it may(sorry will) collapse under the weight of a average size person.

[Moody Blue 9,349]

If a reasonable debate about pitch invasions or jumping on a flimsy roof (which to be fair looks like the kind of den you built in the woods when you were about 10) then all we generally ask for with the mhedia is parity. However, ‘salt n pepper heid’ (As his profile implies) is as bigoted as he makes out the bigot brothers are (his creepy term for us and them).  He fails to do this as there are many more examples than the two or three he suggests.  

Even this week a handful of sheep ran on in their late win, Motherwell in the play offs, ffs lets even go back when the tartan mob busted up Wembley. I’d imagine he thought that was a laugh. Closer to home, his so-called home team from Paisley ran on the pitch when they beat Dundee Hivs in the play off.  If you are going to call out these things and have an open debate calling for widescale improvement then so be it. Sadly, they are all too busy pointing fingers and saying it’s all big bad Rangers fault and them and the other mob are just scum to the core. 

Well, sorry Bill (being polite now), we aren’t all scum and in fact some/most are probably much more intellectual, smarter and wiser than you with the assumed degree in journalism you received, which you now ridicule with your ramblings on and trying to be witty but in a street-smart style.  I write reports for a living and can out write you any day my friend (sarcasm). Again, for parity purposes, if you imply Rangers sung sectarian bile all day then why don’t you ever point out the sectarian singing ALL other clubs direct towards us, is it because there’s only generally half-filled stadiums with a man and a dog at games not involving us because, quite frankly, no one else really cares what goes on at those games?

Also, when well-known Rangers people call out ticketing fiascos at a number of Scottish clubs in recent times then I tend to believe them rather than suspecting internal bias. It is also worthy of note that the police recommended the opening of the gate to avoid hugely concerning problems outside Rugby Park. These things need highlighted, not it was all Rangers fans fault because they’re all jakeys out to cause mayhem.  Curiously enough, the Kilmarnock director moaning is in fact the ‘jakey’ and convicted by a Court of Law.  It will get to a stage where I won’t want any of opposing fans darkening our door at Ibrox and would encourage us never to visit any of their middens  ever again. A sad state of affairs but kinda leave them to half empty stadiums with no cash coming in. They will fail as businesses and would soon come back begging for more blue pound. 

Scottish football is not what it was, nor will ever be again because of decisions supported by you and similars. You should be very careful what you wish for because any football that doesn’t include Rangers or Rangers fans is not worth hanging about for.  2012-2016 should confirm that. We didn’t and won’t die and, much as it pains you in your difficult life, we will win a 55th title, it is merely a matter of time and you will have to reconcile your sorry self with that cold hard fact. 

Sorry troops, rant over!