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Just now, Courtyard Bear said:

I actually think we look more balanced going forward. As you say Goldson and the midfield have to cover over for Tav but they seem to be getting it done so fingers crossed so far. 

I'm not criticising tbf. But when we set up pre kick off or at opposition bye kicks we look balanced, ie Flannigan as advanced as Tav, last night Ojo and Arfield positioned to cover between their CH and full back. But when we start to play the function of those on the left differs those on the right. As I say, likely due to personnel but despite that it's still working and that's the main thing.

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Arfield is in position. It’s his job to drift into the centre of the pitch and find pockets of space then Tav gets forward to provide width 

He can go just where he wants if assists like last night are part of his game, that break inc the tackle and bounce up to thread the ball through was outstanding.

He’s not meant to be out wide.  Wish folk could sit and actually understand what the team are trying to do. 

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I was talking about this with someone the other day. Arfield is probably the best player to fill in there and get the most out of tavernier going forward - particularly if Jones/Ojo are on the opposite side with Flanagan/Halliday at full-back. It makes our shape a bit asymmetrical but would basically be an attacking winger on the left with a defensive full-back and an attacking full-back with a 'defensive' wide midfielder. Arfield moving in also lets Jack slip into right-back to fill the gap left by Tav while Arfield takes up the space left by Jack.

As I see it 👍

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Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

As I see it 👍

If Barisic (or someone more attack-minded) is the LB it all goes a little bit to shit because you're then left with a bigger imbalance in midfield. What's also pretty interesting about it is that on the occasions Arfield went to the left last night ond Ojo came to the right, Tav looked comfortable just to sit at RB without pushing beyond Ojo and then let Jack and Kamara try push on from midfield instead. I don't know if it's just the benefit of getting to have worked on the basics a while but we seem to be far more tactically aware this season so far. It's doesn't feel quite as 'generic' and seems specifically tailored to our squad.

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16 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

He's not a wide midfielder imo, always comes inside

He’s suppose to come inside.  He plays in a similar way to Naismith prior to us getting kicked out the league.  On the team sheet he’s out wide but in reality he’s looking for space in and around the box.  He’s very effective at it and the return of goals and assists reflect that.

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44 minutes ago, The Dude said:

If Barisic (or someone more attack-minded) is the LB it all goes a little bit to shit because you're then left with a bigger imbalance in midfield. What's also pretty interesting about it is that on the occasions Arfield went to the left last night ond Ojo came to the right, Tav looked comfortable just to sit at RB without pushing beyond Ojo and then let Jack and Kamara try push on from midfield instead. I don't know if it's just the benefit of getting to have worked on the basics a while but we seem to be far more tactically aware this season so far. It's doesn't feel quite as 'generic' and seems specifically tailored to our squad.

If an attacking LB came in and offers what Tav does then if we're getting no change out of a RB the likes of Arfield / Aribo can easily swap sides with Jones/ Ojo / Barker to let them have a go at the LB. That option isn't there yet which means were kinda steered into having this current mbalance.

Agree though that it's clearly tactical, suited to this current squad and their limitations. They seem far more tactically aware and intelligent than last season.

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16 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I was talking about this with someone the other day. Arfield is probably the best player to fill in there and get the most out of tavernier going forward - particularly if Jones/Ojo are on the opposite side with Flanagan/Halliday at full-back. It makes our shape a bit asymmetrical but would basically be an attacking winger on the left with a defensive full-back and an attacking full-back with a 'defensive' wide midfielder. Arfield moving in also lets Jack slip into right-back to fill the gap left by Tav while Arfield takes up the space left by Jack.

It’s a role you need a lot of footballing intelligence to play and Arfield has proven that he has that in abundance. Was looking at the average positions for the team against hibs and we basically play a 3241 when we attack. 

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26 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

I'm not criticising tbf. But when we set up pre kick off or at opposition bye kicks we look balanced, ie Flannigan as advanced as Tav, last night Ojo and Arfield positioned to cover between their CH and full back. But when we start to play the function of those on the left differs those on the right. As I say, likely due to personnel but despite that it's still working and that's the main thing.

Better natural LB is a priority for me as well, when we get one is anyone’s guess. 

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55 minutes ago, Lloyd said:

It’s a role you need a lot of footballing intelligence to play and Arfield has proven that he has that in abundance. Was looking at the average positions for the team against hibs and we basically play a 3241 when we attack. 

Where you getting that from? Sounds interesting. Heat map type stuff?

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3 hours ago, Courtyard Bear said:

I actually think we look more balanced going forward. As you say Goldson and the midfield have to cover over for Tav but they seem to be getting it done so fingers crossed so far. 

And it's certainly not reducing our threat. We have looked extremely dangerous any time we have had to put the foot down in any game or tie.

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Im not being negative about arfield, for me he would start every game as the man behind the striker, i just think we look more balanced when we have proper wide players stretching the opponents, its no surprise that arguably our best players the last 2 games attacking wise were the guys told to play wide left

Me personally, i think arfield drifting inside occupies the space that davis, jack, kamara, aribo can work in but then forces tav to sit more as he is often left with no cover for his runs up the park

The difference between the likes of ojo and arfield is that ojo starts wide and drifts in with the ball, which creates the space outside for tav, arfield drifts inside looking for the ball, which takes up space for the likes of aribo and kamara etc

On a massive pitch like ibrox id much prefer to see us stretch teams to the full extent, hibs fullbacks couldn't handle our wingers 1v1 last weekend, id love to see more of that 

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36 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Im not being negative about arfield, for me he would start every game as the man behind the striker, i just think we look more balanced when we have proper wide players stretching the opponents, its no surprise that arguably our best players the last 2 games attacking wise were the guys told to play wide left

Me personally, i think arfield drifting inside occupies the space that davis, jack, kamara, aribo can work in but then forces tav to sit more as he is often left with no cover for his runs up the park

The difference between the likes of ojo and arfield is that ojo starts wide and drifts in with the ball, which creates the space outside for tav, arfield drifts inside looking for the ball, which takes up space for the likes of aribo and kamara etc

On a massive pitch like ibrox id much prefer to see us stretch teams to the full extent, hibs fullbacks couldn't handle our wingers 1v1 last weekend, id love to see more of that 

I couldnt disagree more!

Arfield playing inside allows more space for the FBs to go forward, especially on the right hand side.

I dont know if you have read the entire thread but look at the heat map and average position of the players against Hibs, Ojo was on "on the right" but his average position was more behind the striker, again tucking in to allow space for Tav to overlap!

Jones done well against Hibs but of the goals scored, the first was the rebound from Ojo's

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6 hours ago, graeme_4 said:

Part of the problem with football fans in general. Haven’t played the game, watch on a stream and don’t have a clue what they’re on about. 

Arfield is doing a great job in behind the striker. He has license to roam in dangerous areas. Brilliant at picking the ball up in the space between midfield and the striker. Wouldn’t be changing how we plays at all. 

Exactly this mate. He basically plays a free roll because he's that experienced he knows exactly what he's doing. He's playing some of the best football of his career and doing great for the team yet some people want to stick him out wide and leave him there because thats how the formation looks when wrote on paper.

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32 minutes ago, Del said:

I couldnt disagree more!

Arfield playing inside allows more space for the FBs to go forward, especially on the right hand side.

I dont know if you have read the entire thread but look at the heat map and average position of the players against Hibs, Ojo was on "on the right" but his average position was more behind the striker, again tucking in to allow space for Tav to overlap!

Jones done well against Hibs but of the goals scored, the first was the rebound from Ojo's

And the second was by wing play down the left, along with 2 of last nights goals

I just think we look more fluid on the right when tav can link up with someone, tavs best asset is linking up with the winger and overlapping etc, 

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1 hour ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

And the second was by wing play down the left, along with 2 of last nights goals

I just think we look more fluid on the right when tav can link up with someone, tavs best asset is linking up with the winger and overlapping etc, 

My phone cut out before I could send the rest of it...

The point in making is that you are asking the wingers to stay wide and take advantage of a 1vs1 situation, like they did against Hibs, but the 1st goal came from a rebounded Ojo shot, that he hit from the middle of the pitch...the 2nd goal...good work from Jones who plays it through for Ojo (the guy supposed to be on the right) who again has ran from the middle of the pitch and he cuts it back for Defoe...the freekick Tav nearly scores, comes from a foul won by Ojo again in the middle of the pitch...the 3rd goal comes from a ball in by Davis but again there is no one on the right other than Tav, Ojo is right in the middle of the goal having tucked in from his wide position...

Although at times the wide midfielders are getting some success in 1vs1s by staying outwide, there is also no doubt that we are creating a lot of chances by having the wingers tuck in, especially on the right.

Last night game again proved this...Ojo got a lot of chances down the left but if you look at where the balls came from or even watch the build up, there is noone hugging the right wing other than Tav.

For the first goal arfield is right in the middle of the pitch when he plays Ojo through...the 2nd goal again is the same, arfield is the main man but it comes from a more central position and Ojo scores as hes ran inside...the 3rd goal is brilliant play from Ojo but look at Arfields position, hes right behind Morelos all the time theres noone other than Tav on the right hand side.

Im all for improving the team, but the one thing I wouldnt be changing is what we are doing in midfield and wide areas!

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3 hours ago, Bluekev said:

Exactly this mate. He basically plays a free roll because he's that experienced he knows exactly what he's doing. He's playing some of the best football of his career and doing great for the team yet some people want to stick him out wide and leave him there because thats how the formation looks when wrote on paper.

Who wants to stick him wide and leave him there at all let alone because that's a written formation? No one on this thread for starters.

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2 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Who wants to stick him wide and leave him there at all let alone because that's a written formation? No one on this thread for starters.

Noticed when I watched him playing for Canada in the pre-season he was absolutely buzzing, had been given a free role in the centre of midfield,  and was relishing it.

 

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1 hour ago, Del said:

My phone cut out before I could send the rest of it...

The point in making is that you are asking the wingers to stay wide and take advantage of a 1vs1 situation, like they did against Hibs, but the 1st goal came from a rebounded Ojo shot, that he hit from the middle of the pitch...the 2nd goal...good work from Jones who plays it through for Ojo (the guy supposed to be on the right) who again has ran from the middle of the pitch and he cuts it back for Defoe...the freekick Tav nearly scores, comes from a foul won by Ojo again in the middle of the pitch...the 3rd goal comes from a ball in by Davis but again there is no one on the right other than Tav, Ojo is right in the middle of the goal having tucked in from his wide position...

Although at times the wide midfielders are getting some success in 1vs1s by staying outwide, there is also no doubt that we are creating a lot of chances by having the wingers tuck in, especially on the right.

Last night game again proved this...Ojo got a lot of chances down the left but if you look at where the balls came from or even watch the build up, there is noone hugging the right wing other than Tav.

For the first goal arfield is right in the middle of the pitch when he plays Ojo through...the 2nd goal again is the same, arfield is the main man but it comes from a more central position and Ojo scores as hes ran inside...the 3rd goal is brilliant play from Ojo but look at Arfields position, hes right behind Morelos all the time theres noone other than Tav on the right hand side.

Im all for improving the team, but the one thing I wouldnt be changing is what we are doing in midfield and wide areas!

Good piece.

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