Could we learn from porto's first half setup last night

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

Essentially porto played 352 as they knew we'd only play one up top and have a couple if sitting mids, and had pepe not got crocked i have a feeling the result might have been different 

But what you could see is that their formation allowed them to press our sitting guys while keeping it relatively tight at the back, infact it was only when we countered and out manned them on the wings that we got any joy that first half

Maybe we could use that in games at ibrox, barisic and tav as your wingbacks, play kent in behind the two strikers then any two of our midfielders we current have just dictating play

It wouldnt be for all occasions, but times when teams comes to ibrox and sit in their own half it might throw them a bit like it did us last night 

[dummiesoot 16,005]

It was interesting and to be fair though they dominated possession McGregor was not called upon too often. We just did not really cope with it. Not since villa real last year has a team dominated us as much at Ibrox imo. 

 

[Creampuff 22,628]

Joint top of the league + league cup final + joint top of Europa Group = radically change the system. 

Seems sensible.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

Reckon Jim Beams been on the Jack Daniels

[McEwan's Lager 30,522]

Playing a back three / five (if you count the wing backs) like that with two men spare, marking no one, makes zero sense.

We still created the better chances in the first half once we got to grips with the pace of the game.

The biggest issue we had in the first half was our midfield was consistently caught flat in a line. Davis was playing much higher than usual. We struggled to create and have good passing options through the press. That changed in the second half.

[bluenoz 30,832]

There is nothing to learn. We outplayed them over 180 minutes. They should be the ones going home to learn our blueprint.

[Orange Persson 547]

You won't dominate 90 minutes of a game at this level.  Neither do you need to dominate to score goals.  Our defence is decent enough to withstand these periods , whereas in the past it was not steady enough.    We have more patience and experience to break teams down now and with Alfie up front, something will happen.

  

[sausagetrunks 6,022]

think the game changed when Arfield replaced Barker. 

[NeoGeo7 10,502]

High press isn’t so much about formation but fitness.

Jordan Milsom and the coaching staff have done a great job with the squad and we can keep going with an intelligent press i.e. pressing in areas where it makes sense rather than doing it for the sake of doing it.

Porto were shattered in the second half and apart from a slight resurgence when they made the Ze Luis sub they weren’t able to keep up the pressing as they had done in the first half.

Gerrard is learning to get the first XI, the formation, the approach and the subs right more often than not, so it’s a no from me regarding 3-5-2

[Creampuff 22,628]

4 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said:

High press isn’t so much about formation but fitness.

Jordan Milsom and the coaching staff have done a great job with the squad and we can keep going with an intelligent press i.e. pressing in areas where it makes sense rather than doing it for the sake of doing it.

Porto were shattered in the second half and apart from a slight resurgence when they made the Ze Luis sub they weren’t able to keep up the pressing as they had done in the first half.

Gerrard is learning to get the first XI, the formation, the approach and the subs right more often than not, so it’s a no from me regarding 3-5-2

This is bang on. About 10 minutes into the second half it seemed pretty clear Porto we’re getting leggy.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

7 minutes ago, Creampuff said:

This is bang on. About 10 minutes into the second half it seemed pretty clear Porto we’re getting leggy.

That about the same time they went to 4 at the back when pepe went off injured? The point where we started dominating 

As for your earlier point, doesnt matter where we are the now, teams will learn from us, porto did and dominated the first half at ibrox, nothing to do with fitness or anything, it was clearly their formation that threw us

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

2 hours ago, McEwan's Lager said:

Playing a back three / five (if you count the wing backs) like that with two men spare, marking no one, makes zero sense.

We still created the better chances in the first half once we got to grips with the pace of the game.

The biggest issue we had in the first half was our midfield was consistently caught flat in a line. Davis was playing much higher than usual. We struggled to create and have good passing options through the press. That changed in the second half.

The back 3 dont mark no one though, your wingbacks essentially press high, and the side centre halves cover the fullback position of whatever side the opponents are attacking down 

 

[TartanTeddy 758]

I assume what Jim Beam means is that the formation that Porto played would be good for games in Scotland where we are playing opponents who play one up top and would give us the option of playing Helander, Katic, Goldson as a back three with more advanced wingbacks. And if that's right, then I would agree that it could be something that SG might consider - we were certainly struggling to break that down and it allowed Porto to dominate for a long spells. 

People saying Porto were tiring about ten minutes into the second half are perhaps missing the point that Pepe went off injured - and we were doing nothing against him (and that system). When he left the field Porto went to a back four and we were able to exploit that, particularly with Arfield replacing Barker.

Will be interesting if Gerrard tries something like this in the future - would also maybe help keeping the four CB's happy in the rotational system

[TartanTeddy 758]

3 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

That about the same time they went to 4 at the back when pepe went off injured? The point where we started dominating 

As for your earlier point, doesnt matter where we are the now, teams will learn from us, porto did and dominated the first half at ibrox, nothing to do with fitness or anything, it was clearly their formation that threw us

Spot on

Pepe going off was massive - was dominating in that system and we were getting little penetration. 

Wasn't impressed with Barker last night and Arfield allowed us to be a bit more direct, but you just can't underestimate the difference it made when they changed the system

[hammer93 15,057]

35 minutes ago, Creampuff said:

This is bang on. About 10 minutes into the second half it seemed pretty clear Porto we’re getting leggy.

My stream had commentary from Johnathan Pearce....his exact words were it was clearly obvious that we were much fitter than Porto as both games have seen us look much stronger in the 2nd half....who would have thought that our fitness levels would see us fitter than a team of Porto's ilk.....hats off to SG and his backroom staff👍

[Gman36 3,455]

Porto are still a good team and for 20 minutes really looked it. But we held in there and came out on top.

That Kamara clearance goes in and pepe doesn't get injured Porto probably win. But those two things didn't happen and we did win. You can over analyse things sometimes. 

[hammer93 15,057]

When teams come to Ibrox and play 1 up we very rarely play 4 at the back....we may set up in a 433 but  tav or borna will either go and be part of whatever side we are playing through, its only against better opposition that you need to be more careful as when they counter they get more players forward at pace....in Scotland teams very rarely try and get too many players high up the pitch so it's less of an issue 

[Marky. 6,926]

53 minutes ago, sausagetrunks said:

think the game changed when Arfield replaced Barker. 

Without Arfield really doing much to change it, but I do agree.

What changed the game really was Alfie receiving the ball in the box.

He was deadly and that was a finish of true class.

[don logan 8,062]

1 hour ago, sausagetrunks said:

think the game changed when Arfield replaced Barker. 

Agreed. Not happy with Barker getting picked ahead of Arfield, Ojo and Aribo. Must be on fire in training because he's pish on match days.

[GOAT 30,449]

Learn from a team that got beat?  Aye nae bother.  They should be learning from us.  Two games and we took four points from it.  

[tannerall 25,935]

Their first half performance showed what a fast skilful passing attacking team can do, and this is something Gerrard has tried to bring to the fore, in recent weeks some of our posession and passing has been superb, so yes we do learn from it. 

However I wonder if Porto would be allowed to play that way in the SPL, where hammer throwers abound, and Scottish referees turn blind eyes to the crudest tackles. And don't forget Porto play in a more skilful league, and regularly play at higher levels in Europe, with more experienced and arguably better standard (expensive) players.

Gerrard's result last night in a very enjoyable game of football was a victory for team effort, application, skill and character over some very very skilful players who were exceptional in passing abilities.

 

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

1 hour ago, hammer93 said:

When teams come to Ibrox and play 1 up we very rarely play 4 at the back....we may set up in a 433 but  tav or borna will either go and be part of whatever side we are playing through, its only against better opposition that you need to be more careful as when they counter they get more players forward at pace....in Scotland teams very rarely try and get too many players high up the pitch so it's less of an issue 

Its more the lack of more than morelos/defoe up front when teams sit in, we seen against motherwell what can happen if teams get a foothold in the game at ibrox or even away, our system apart from the wide players rarely sees midfielders go beyond opposition defenders etc

We have 4 quality centre halves that could easily play 352, and it gives us both morelos and defoe up top without reducing our central midfield numbers

[Roy Hobbs 2,165]

I bet you said it was a stupid idea when we did it against Motherwell last season.

[MisterC 12,270]

The 352 obsession continues!

[sausagetrunks 6,022]

50 minutes ago, don logan said:

Agreed. Not happy with Barker getting picked ahead of Arfield, Ojo and Aribo. Must be on fire in training because he's pish on match days.

it was all about pace mate, and porto set up differently