Lost The Dressing Room

[RobertN 389]

2 hours ago, bluenoz said:

If Gerrard isn't keen on a player, they are doomed. Players like Dorrans, Murphy, King, Rossiter all acted professionally when leaving but deep down inside they probably harbour resentment.

If you have a bad attitude or lazy  like Lafferty, Grezda or maybe even Jones then there is no way back.

But I guarantee guys like Jack, Goldson, Tav, Morelos, Davis, Defoe & Kent think he walks on water.

He calls it as he sees it and whether I agree or not, I like that. I don't think he has lost the room.

This is getting at the heart of the problem Gerrard has a fixed idea about what he expects from a player in training and attitude  

You could call this standards this is his choice to make and ultimately what will decide his own fate

Question is  has his  been judgement good enough this season and if not will he learn from it  

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

14 hours ago, STEPPS BOY said:

So George Edmundson Who came from that level isn’t good enough then?

Jordan Jones who couldn’t get a game for Kilmarnock, Journeyman Greg Stewart, Liverpool youth Sheyi Ojo, Journeyman Brandon Barker, Motherwell Youth Jake Hastie - they were  all deemed good enough to improve last seasons team. 
 

How’s that working out?

I seen kilmarnock a few times last season,  only reason I watched was because I heard we might be signing Jones who played in every game I seen. I didn't think he was good enough,  but his early season form was miles ahead of how he played for them. He really looked a good player until his injury.

Anyway, how do you get that he couldn't get a game for killie?

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

5 hours ago, bluenoz said:

If Gerrard isn't keen on a player, they are doomed. Players like Dorrans, Murphy, King, Rossiter all acted professionally when leaving but deep down inside they probably harbour resentment.

If you have a bad attitude or lazy  like Lafferty, Grezda or maybe even Jones then there is no way back.

But I guarantee guys like Jack, Goldson, Tav, Morelos, Davis, Defoe & Kent think he walks on water.

He calls it as he sees it and whether I agree or not, I like that. I don't think he has lost the room.

He might not lose the full room, but his favouritism with certain players might begin to make cracks in the unit, when guys like tav and goldson and others are allowed to mske mistakes, play through their bad form etc, while others are dropped after one bad game, it could create disharmony

[McEwan's Lager 30,492]

4 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said:

I seen kilmarnock a few times last season,  only reason I watched was because I heard we might be signing Jones who played in every game I seen. I didn't think he was good enough,  but his early season form was miles ahead of how he played for them. He really looked a good player until his injury.

Anyway, how do you get that he couldn't get a game for killie?

I think he barely kicked a ball for them in the last couple of months of last season.

[Ace 3,556]

8 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

I think he barely kicked a ball for them in the last couple of months of last season.

For a manager who clearly had a thing against us & against a player who was leaving him for us .. a combination that was certain to produce the game time it did.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,613]

1 hour ago, Ace said:

For a manager who clearly had a thing against us & against a player who was leaving him for us .. a combination that was certain to produce the game time it did.

Add into the mix Michael O'Neill comments:

“It’s difficult when you are a player and a deal is done on a pre-contract basis probably with a view to the deal being completed in January.

“When that doesn’t happen it’s difficult for everyone. It was difficult for Steve Clarke as well but he handled the situation extremely well. Jordan had a shoulder injury and that’s part of the reason why he didn’t play towards the end of the season.

“Steve protected him and I know Jordan was grateful for that.”

[magic8ball 27,901]

1 hour ago, McEwan's Lager said:

I think he barely kicked a ball for them in the last couple of months of last season.

It’s because he signed a pre contract with us ,he was frozen out 

[STEPPS BOY 73,790]

3 minutes ago, magic8ball said:

It’s because he signed a pre contract with us ,he was frozen out 

Didn’t look to frozen out when he scored against us first game after break and when he’d signed for us.

If the manager was that bitter about it then you’d think you wouldn’t play the player against team that said manager hates and who the player has agreed to sign for.

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,902]

12 minutes ago, magic8ball said:

It’s because he signed a pre contract with us ,he was frozen out 

Frozen out until he came on against us and scored?! 

😂😂 Just seen the above comment, ignore this. 

[ForeverAndEver 71,355]

Played against us and them after signing the pre contract

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,902]

I don't think he's lost the dressing room at all. I know others or most might disagree with this but I think it's more to do with being burnt out and mentally drained. 

We've played 46 competitive games so far (50 including friendlies) and pretty quickly he started to see who he could trust and rotate and others who just weren't up to the standard. We had a great season up to January where the same group of players were being used and others sporadically, we made the last 32 of the EL, we had the low of losing the cup final and then the massive high of beating them at the piggery on the last game before the break. All that is mentally and physically draining considering there's still about another 20 games to go after the break. Gerrard should've gave the players an easy time of it in Dubai and not run them hard, we were off for 3 weeks so giving the players about 10 days to rest up and enjoy a bit of team bonding before starting the work on the Stranraer and St mirren game would've been better. I honestly think the highs and relief of beating they cunts at home has taken more out of our players than we are willing to acknowledge. Football and sport isn't always about how hard and fast you can run and the mental side of it can be just as effective but playing 46 games at that point and not using a big squad of players will take its toll and we are starting to see the effects now. 

We haven't became a bad team over night for no reason and I genuinely don't think he's lost the dressing room, what the answer is we can only guess and point fingers but our form needs to pick up soon and we need to get behind them. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

Played as a winger in a system that uses them, we dont so he's kinda redundant in our squad 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

2 minutes ago, Ross-Gazza genius said:

I don't think he's lost the dressing room at all. I know others or most might disagree with this but I think it's more to do with being burnt out and mentally drained. 

We've played 46 competitive games so far this(50 including friendlies) and pretty quickly he started to see who he could trust and rotate and others who just weren't up to the standard. We had a great season up to January where the same group of players were being used and others sporadically, we made the last 32 of the EL, we had the low of losing the cup final and then the massive high of beating them at the piggery on the last game before the break. All that is mentally and physically draining considering there's still about another 20 games to go after the break. Gerrard should've gave the players an easy time of it in Dubai and not run them hard, we were off for 3 weeks so giving the players about 10 days to rest up and enjoy a bit of team bonding before starting the work on the Stranraer and St mirren game would've been better. I honestly think the highs and relief of beating they cunts at home has taken more out of our players than we are willing to acknowledge. Football and sport isn't always about how hard and fast you can run and the mental side of it can be just as effective but playing 46 games at that point and not using a big squad of players will take its toll and we are starting to see the effects now. 

We haven't became a bad team over night for no reason and I genuinely don't think he's lost the dressing room, what the answer is we can only guess and point fingers but our form needs to pick up soon and we need to get behind them. 

 Burnt out my arse, 

50 games at 90mins a game is 4500 minutes

Say they train 3hrs a day, 4 days a week for the last 30 weeks, thats 21600 minutes

So since june last year they have worked 26100 minutes, or 435 hrs, 

A 38hr a week joe blogs worker in that time has worked 1140hrs, people like doctors, nurses, firemen, and the rest of us poor bastards who fork out a fortune watching these players do nearly a 3rd of the hours we do for 50x the wages we are one

If they claim they are burnt out they are fucking at it and can go fuck themselves

[BillStruthBear 125]

20 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Thats fair enough its your opinion, but i disagree, the spfl is utter dung, utter utter dung, 

League One is horrifically bad, and pound-for-pound FAR worse than our league. Not that that's something to be proud of.

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,902]

5 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

 Burnt out my arse, 

50 games at 90mins a game is 4500 minutes

Say they train 3hrs a day, 4 days a week for the last 30 weeks, thats 21600 minutes

So since june last year they have worked 26100 minutes, or 435 hrs, 

A 38hr a week joe blogs worker in that time has worked 1140hrs, people like doctors, nurses, firemen, and the rest of us poor bastards who fork out a fortune watching these players do nearly a 3rd of the hours we do for 50x the wages we are one

If they claim they are burnt out they are fucking at it and can go fuck themselves

The intensity of they games and physical side of it mixed in with training as well......absolutely they can be burnt out and only folk who are blinkered in thinking otherwise will deny this. 

They train a lot more than 3hrs a day and they ain't sitting at desk ffs so to compare to anyone else's job is utterly stupid. 

[BillStruthBear 125]

19 hours ago, hammer93 said:

So if we go for a rebuild you would be happy to sign players from league 1 in England?

At least it will give you a platform to keep moaning and being critical.....league 1 level of players will not see us challenge the vermin or win trophies!!

Absolutely this. We signed two players from League One in the summer - Aribo and big George. One hasn't made three starts in a row and the other - although a leading light in a pretty average to poor Charlton team - frankly hasn't been anywhere near good enough since arriving up here.

If anyone genuinely thinks we can compete on all fronts with League One level players they're seriously deluded (and I'm not saying that anyone HAS said that).

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

Just now, Ross-Gazza genius said:

The intensity of they games and physical side of it mixed in with training as well......absolutely they can be burnt out and only folk who are blinked in thinking otherwise will deny this. 

Intensity of the games, come on, half the time the games slink into nothing games, when we scudded aberdeen 5-0 the foot was off the gas at 2-0 for example

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

3 minutes ago, BillStruthBear said:

Absolutely this. We signed two players from League One in the summer - Aribo and big George. One hasn't made three starts in a row and the other - although a leading light in a pretty average to poor Charlton team - frankly hasn't been anywhere near good enough since arriving up here.

If anyone genuinely thinks we can compete on all fronts with League One level players they're seriously deluded (and I'm not saying that anyone HAS said that).

Where did we sign our captain from again? 

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,902]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

Intensity of the games, come on, half the time the games slink into nothing games, when we scudded aberdeen 5-0 the foot was off the gas at 2-0 for example

Nonsense. Pulling 1 game out to make a point is silly. 

The sports psychology of football is to get the players in tip top condition but playing 46 game up to now is extreme considering some players had next to no break with international duty. Then putting the players through another mini pre season before starting again can easily have an adverse affect on the team. 

[BillStruthBear 125]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

Where did we sign our captain from again? 

The exception, rather than the rule - so a very weak argument. But to answer your question, when we signed Tav, he had been playing in the Championship at Wigan (2014/15 season). So what's your point?

[left winger 14,105]

10 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

 Burnt out my arse, 

50 games at 90mins a game is 4500 minutes

Say they train 3hrs a day, 4 days a week for the last 30 weeks, thats 21600 minutes

So since june last year they have worked 26100 minutes, or 435 hrs, 

A 38hr a week joe blogs worker in that time has worked 1140hrs, people like doctors, nurses, firemen, and the rest of us poor bastards who fork out a fortune watching these players do nearly a 3rd of the hours we do for 50x the wages we are one

If they claim they are burnt out they are fucking at it and can go fuck themselves

Comparing sports people and the hours they work, when it come to things like effort, to people in totally different occupations is always a shite analogy.

[left winger 14,105]

22 minutes ago, Ross-Gazza genius said:

I don't think he's lost the dressing room at all. I know others or most might disagree with this but I think it's more to do with being burnt out and mentally drained. 

We've played 46 competitive games so far (50 including friendlies) and pretty quickly he started to see who he could trust and rotate and others who just weren't up to the standard. We had a great season up to January where the same group of players were being used and others sporadically, we made the last 32 of the EL, we had the low of losing the cup final and then the massive high of beating them at the piggery on the last game before the break. All that is mentally and physically draining considering there's still about another 20 games to go after the break. Gerrard should've gave the players an easy time of it in Dubai and not run them hard, we were off for 3 weeks so giving the players about 10 days to rest up and enjoy a bit of team bonding before starting the work on the Stranraer and St mirren game would've been better. I honestly think the highs and relief of beating they cunts at home has taken more out of our players than we are willing to acknowledge. Football and sport isn't always about how hard and fast you can run and the mental side of it can be just as effective but playing 46 games at that point and not using a big squad of players will take its toll and we are starting to see the effects now. 

We haven't became a bad team over night for no reason and I genuinely don't think he's lost the dressing room, what the answer is we can only guess and point fingers but our form needs to pick up soon and we need to get behind them. 

I don’t think he has lost the dressing room, but maybe if he looked closer at the bit I highlighted we wouldn’t be in the situation we’re in and the conversation wouldn’t arise?

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

7 minutes ago, Ross-Gazza genius said:

Nonsense. Pulling 1 game out to make a point is silly. 

The sports psychology of football is to get the players in tip top condition but playing 46 game up to now is extreme considering some players had next to no break with international duty. Then putting the players through another mini pre season before starting again can easily have an adverse affect on the team. 

Its not silly, for a start not every players has played every game for the full 90 either, secondly a lot of our games have been like training games for the last half hour, fuck the stranraer game was a full game of fuck all intensity

Plus in your 46 games you include shite like st josephs, absolutely no way they two legs were played at high intensity for the full 90

Theres plenty of excuses for players falling out of form, burnt out by february is a cop out

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,491]

7 minutes ago, left winger said:

Comparing sports people and the hours they work, when it come to things like effort, to people in totally different occupations is always a shite analogy.

Saying pro footballers are burnt out by valentines day is a shite excuse as well, tarriers have played one game more than us, how are they battering teams the now

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,902]

1 minute ago, left winger said:

I don’t think he has lost the dressing room, but maybe if he looked closer at the bit I highlighted we wouldn’t be in the situation we’re in and the conversation wouldn’t arise?

Possibly, I'm not saying Gerrard is exempt from any criticism as I've been quite critical about his tactics and substitutions since he's came in but he's learning. 

A fair few of his signings have baffled me a bit for example, Hastie played wide right for Motherwell and scored a few belters and that was the form we signed him on yet when he came here Gerrard has played him wide left. He is now playing this system where his wide men come inside but at no point did he try Hastie or Middleton in that position(I'm not suggesting they would have made a big difference) so maybe trusting others is something he needs to work on.