LegendofCoop 17,251 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 What I was surprised (well, not really), was the speed at which the various news outlets up here were saying Football would be done for a few months. Even when the EPL were giving out the 4th April suspension date, STV & BBC were stating that the season was potentially already over..........they were either already in the know or were only too happy to put that spin on things. Hmmm..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghorn leghorn 608 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Another SPFL rule is that all teams must play the same amount of home and away games - we haven't along with some others. As mentioned before 38 games must be played to complete the season. Back in season 1939/40 Rangers were top of the pile after 5 games when WW2 broke out, the league was abandoned and Rangers were awarded the Emergency League, but it didn't count and it would be 55 if it did. Imagine it the Fenians were awarded the SP League, but it didn't count for 9 in a row. Night night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,613 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 45 minutes ago, James Rolle said: If they do think differently, they are clinging to the hope that this ‘season definition’ gives them flexibility to end the season before 38 games have been completed. "Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first league match in a season and ending on the date of the last league match in the same season or otherwise as determined by the board and which excludes the close season." This rule simply allows the board to determine if the season has to end in the same season or not. However, rule C14 clearly enforces that teams will be entitled to 38 games in the season. “The clubs for the time being entitled in terms of these rules to participate in the Premiership shall, disregarding any abandoned or postponed matches, play in 38 league matches in any one season." The season definition cannot supersede this rule as it relates only to the ‘period of the year’ as to when the season ends - and only that can ‘‘otherwise be determined by the board’. In order to have the flexibility to end the season and hand out honors after playing less than 38 games, there would have needed to be a part in rule C14 that included “or otherwise as determined by the board’ as per the season definition rule. The SPFL do not have a leg to stand on if they think they can end the season now AND hand the title to celtic. I’m not a lawyer but it’s a clear as day to me. As I've been saying all along. The significant point you've missed is that if the definition DOES allow them to consider a season less than 38 games, then coronavirus issues or not rule c13 contradicts itself. So even before there was a hint of games being postponed the apparent rule would be effectively perceived to be : “The clubs for the time being entitled in terms of these rules to participate in the Premiership shall, disregarding any abandoned or postponed matches, play in 38 league matches in any one season of up to 38 games. And that's clearly a nonsense, rules aren't written to contradict themselves from day one. Imo it's the false interpretation of the definition of "season" that explains this being the case in this instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummiesoot 15,999 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 The equal home and away matches has not been in force since this stupid split started. The only teams assured of 19 home and 19 away I believe are Rangers and them. Many teams have had 20 away matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo7 10,434 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 What actually amazes me is that with all the fuckers in the upper echelons of football authorities never thought of actually coming up with a universal rule regarding abandoned seasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenoz 30,681 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said: What actually amazes me is that with all the fuckers in the upper echelons of football authorities never thought of actually coming up with a universal rule regarding abandoned seasons. Stop making sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Collider 30,780 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, dummiesoot said: You do realise he is a master fisherman? God knows what he will post on here 😂 Anglers everywhere on the forums mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummiesoot 15,999 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hadron Collider said: Anglers everywhere on the forums mate. Some catch more than others, Mr C is a top notch fisherman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Collider 30,780 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 minute ago, dummiesoot said: Some catch more than others, Mr C is a top notch fisherman. Wonder what his favourite bait is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears r us 30,771 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, dummiesoot said: Some catch more than others, Mr C is a top notch fisherman. Certainly one of the best, ach just give him the title he is ahead on points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatasauce 1,253 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ritchieshearercaldow said: Fuck um But it shows that Null and Void won’t be an option unfortunately, Association’s will get their arses sued from every direction I don’t want to hijack another thread with this hypothetical shite until anybody knows for certain what’s gony happen but if it went to court, surely it would come down to pure evidence, the league isn’t finished yet regarding final positions, how anybody can convince a judge to side with them on a presumption or probability would astonish me, it would kill me and I’d be crossing my toes if it was us 13 points in front of them that we got awarded the title but if it went the other way I’d accept the fact that it wasn’t mathematically impossible for anybody to catch us and just wouldn’t enjoy another chinkie again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Honestly, I have come round to thinking if they want to do it, they probably can. The only thing that will stop it will be public pressure or guidance from Uefa. The rules are monumentally shite, and it all comes back to them being able to rip one up if it's impossible to complete, but then use the other rules as they see fit. Hopefully this would be something a lawyer could target and say the rules are not fit for purpose, but got no idea really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton2008 646 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 https://www.BOYCOTT THIS LINK/sport/football/football-news/spfl-rules-could-hand-celtic-21701473 Record setting out their stall it appears Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Hutton2008 said: https://www.BOYCOTT THIS LINK/sport/football/football-news/spfl-rules-could-hand-celtic-21701473 Record setting out their stall it appears I wonder if the journo has been reading what dude was posting? The SPFL rules that could hand celtic nine-in-a-row and send Hearts down to the Championship ByJonathan McFarlane The SPFL board is set to face the thankless task of attempting to bring clarity to the chaos of the coronavirus shutdown. The coronavirus shutdown means huge and unprecedented decisions lie ahead that will have deep-seated ramifications for the Scottish game. With 30 league matches on the board for most clubs so far and the prospect of a ball not being kicked until as late in the year as September, the SPFL board have the daunting task of aligning the rules, a sense of sporting integrity and serious financial considerations amid a pandemic situation that would have seemed unimaginable just three months ago. The men and women on the board tasked with sailing the good ship Scottish football through choppy waters are Neil Doncaster (CEO), Murdoch MacLennan (Chairman), Karyn McCluskey (non-executive), Alan Burrows (Motherwell), Les Gray (Hamilton Academical), Stewart Robertson (Rangers), Ross McArthur (Dunfermline Athletic), Ewen Cameron (Alloa Athletic), Ken Ferguson (Brechin City) and Peter Davidson (Montrose). They will have to use guidance delivered from UEFA on Tuesday alongside the rules of the SPFL to steer their decision-making process. A complex legal document that runs to 249 pages, many fans have been posting elements of its contents on social media to strengthen arguments about what they reckon the final decision should be. Scanning through this near impenetrable mix of legalese and erroneously capitalised words it's clear none of the most important section is in the 'Definitions and Interpretation' section, where the word season is defined clearly. It posits: "Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first league match in a season and ending on the date of the last league match in the same season or otherwise as determined by the board and which excludes the close season."This rule appears to strengthen the argument that the season could be ended after 30 games with celtic declared winner and Hearts relegated given it stipulates that the end of the season is defined as the "last league match" or "as otherwise as determined by the board". It appears to give the SPFL enough legal wiggle room to end the season at this stage should it be decided the season can't resume. Rule C38 further strengthens this case. It states: "The club occupying position one in the league at the end of a season shall be declared the champion club of the league and shall hold the "The Scottish Professional Football League Championship Trophy" until the next season's league competition is concluded." Put simply, the SPFL board have the power to define at what point the season ends and when it does with the team placed first automatically declared champion. Whether such a decision will be accepted by clubs without legal challenge is another matter, with Hearts already intimating they would be looking to take action if they were relegated at this stage. Jambos and Rangers fans might be forgiven for reading this with a growing sense of unease but there is a sliver of hope in the form of rule C14. It states: "The clubs for the time being entitled in terms of these rules to participate in the Premiership shall, disregarding any abandoned or postponed matches, play in 38 league matches in any one season." While this clearly defines a season as 38 matches, it could be superseded by the notion that the season is now determined as 30 games under the "otherwise as determined by the Board" part of the season definition. One directive doing the rounds on social media has been the following: "In the event that any matter or thing shall arise in relation to the Competition which is not provided for in these Regulations or if any conflict shall arise between a matter provided for in the Rules and these Regulations then the Board shall be entitled to make whatever arrangements and determinations and give such directions to Clubs/clubs as the Board shall think appropriate in order to ensure the efficient operation and completion of the Competition." This is rule 3.3 and specific to the Challenge Cup. While it would appear to give the board carte blanche to make a title decision, no such rule can be found in relation to the Premiership. As with any legal document, the rules are subject to the contours of a legal argument and as such nobody can interpret with any certainty what will be the outcome based on what's in the rules and regulations of the SPFL. With no obvious answer to the many questions and potential perceived injustices, that could follow any decision, it seems a thankless decision sure to divide along tribal lines like no other issue before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 7 hours ago, The Dude said: Ann Budge who let was so star-struck by Craig Levein she let him run the club and sacked him, but didn't really sack him. She showed loyalty to someone who was very loyal to her club. Don't get what your point is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 hours ago, ritchieshearercaldow said: As some have pointed out UEFA don’t allow clubs to take their home associations to court, although don’t suppose Budge cares about that. The CAS stands above UEFA. So do FIFA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 hours ago, The Dude said: If they end the Season after the games already played, I think keeping the standings is right. Fucking scum. Going against your own fucking club. You make me sick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 hours ago, The Dude said: Or...see above. 😂 Reports seem to suggest UEFA are going to recommend leagues that are permanently suspended freeze their standing and regard them as final too. There's probably more chance of the football being back before there's an outcome on this though. UEFA cant make decisions on competitions they dont run for the 10th time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backup 4,724 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Sweetheart said: They will have to use guidance delivered from UEFA on Tuesday alongside the rules of the SPFL to steer their decision-making process. Rules are irrelevant, legal precedent isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, backup said: Rules are irrelevant, legal precedent isn't. True. I predict ....... UEFA won't make any decisions on Tuesday other than all leagues are postponed until further notice and that each league will be dealt with in due course. I think the first thing they'll address are the regulations around transfer windows, registration periods, loan players, contract extensions relaxing FFP rules etc. so that clubs can still run that side of the business. Then I think UEFA will form a panel to deal with each league separately discussing it with the governing bodies, various association and the clubs involved and then the UEFA panel would make a final decision on the way forward for winners promotions and demotions. I don't think UEFA will allow the SFA to change rules now to fit the situation. There's no quick fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdzKyle 7,832 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 How can people say league must end how it stands now? This doesn’t just affect us. Teams like Patrick who are bottom of the league BUT have a game in hand which would take them off the bottom. League absolutely CANNOT end as it stands. It goes against all sporting integrity and anyone with any ounce of decency could see that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanVeenRangers 2,529 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Contracts are up at the end of May? Do you think club's will want to extend these and keep paying wages if we aren't playing games by then. Definitely not. The league and cups will be cancelled and the new season will begin when everything is safe again - which could be many months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said: Fucking scum. Going against your own fucking club. You make me sick. Aye, we all blindly agree with everything Rangers do on here, don't we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said: UEFA cant make decisions on competitions they dont run for the 10th time. So you're telling me it's up to the competition organisers? Who might that be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollok-bear 7,537 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said: Fucking scum. Going against your own fucking club. You make me sick. I dont understand how the prick hasn't been banned from here yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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