Joey Barton article

[TMB 14,167]

2 minutes ago, Tero Penttila said:

Barton probably had the mentality to play for us, but he couldn’t have arrived at a worse time. 

I couldn’t agree more.  

[DrLaudrup 4,563]

This thread might as well be under the unpopular opinions thread. We all know that what Barton is saying about the whole mentality of our club, about the manager, about Tavernier, Halliday, Miller and Wallace is likely spot on. It doesn't change the fact that he missed most of preseason due to prior commitments with Talksport, was clearly unfit and also behaved in a way that fell short of what was needed for our club. On the anniversary of Sandy Jardine's death,  the difference between many of those mentioned and the conduct of a true Rangers legend could not be more apparent. As much as I think as a character he's poor, in different circumstances he should have been a big player for us and that whole episode is best confined to history. 

[Tiger Shaw 30,348]

3 minutes ago, Tero Penttila said:

Warburton was out of his depth from the minute we got promoted. 

He’s a lower league manager. 

Barton probably had the mentality to play for us, but he couldn’t have arrived at a worse time. 

Going into a game expecting to lose and only concerned about not getting red carded is a pish mentality and not what I would expect from any Rangers player under any circumstances.

[British_Empire 9,648]

4 minutes ago, DrLaudrup said:

This thread might as well be under the unpopular opinions thread. We all know that what Barton is saying about the whole mentality of our club, about the manager, about Tavernier, Halliday, Miller and Wallace is likely spot on. It doesn't change the fact that he missed most of preseason due to prior commitments with Talksport, was clearly unfit and also behaved in a way that fell short of what was needed for our club. On the anniversary of Sandy Jardine's death,  the difference between many of those mentioned and the conduct of a true Rangers legend could not be more apparent. As much as I think as a character he's poor, in different circumstances he should have been a big player for us and that whole episode is best confined to history. 

Good post.

[TMB 14,167]

12 minutes ago, British_Empire said:

You can't have it all ways, you literally say above in regards to Barton that one man can't be blamed for all our failings, now you are implying that one man can take all the credit for a good defensive record? there's 3 other defenders there.

Nothing will change my mind that his (Tav's) concentration levels and defending is rank-rotten. It's not just me saying it, it's people in the game.

Stats can prove, disprove or fit any narrative (good or bad) that you want .... going on stats Candaies and Windass were better than McGregor, Forrest etc and we should have kept them at all costs.

I never said Tavernier was the only reason we have such a good defense.  So I’m not asking to have it both ways.  Tavernier has/is part of strong Rangers defense.  We’ve conceded the exact same amount of league goals as celtic this season and we had the best defensive record in our Europa League group.  Our problem isn’t defensive, it’s offensive.  In particular, a lack of goals after the winter break.

If you want stats look at the amount of goals Tavernier creates from open play and set-pieces and consider how important that is to this Rangers team.  Tavernier lead the SPFL top-tier in assists last season.  This season he’s yet again created more goals than anyone else in a Rangers jersey with a total of 14 assists.  

[ForeverAndEver 71,371]

He’s a Tarrier scumbag. Fuck him.

[British_Empire 9,648]

1 minute ago, TMB said:

I never said Tavernier was the only reason we have such a good defense.  So I’m not asking to have it both ways.  Tavernier has/is part of strong Rangers defense.  We’ve conceded the exact same amount of league goals as celtic this season and we had the best defensive record in our Europa League group.  Our problem isn’t defensive, it’s offensive.  In particular, a lack of goals after the winter break.

If you want stats look at the amount of goals Tavernier creates from open play and set-pieces and consider how important that is to this Rangers team.  Tavernier lead the SPFL top-tier in assists last season.  This season he’s yet again created more goals than anyone else in a Rangers jersey with a total of 14 assists.  

The reason Tav leads the stats is because he takes the majority of set pieces and his MO is just to whip the ball into the box wherever possible. At a team like Rangers if that's the game plan and your job you are going to be high up in that regard. 

Not to mention the designated penalty take for so long up until recently. 

That proves to me, beyond all doubt when someone tries to build a case for James Tavernier using stats that stats aren't really worth a fuck. 

[TMB 14,167]

5 minutes ago, Tiger Shaw said:

Going into a game expecting to lose and only concerned about not getting red carded is a pish mentality and not what I would expect from any Rangers player under any circumstances.

When we signed Barton much was made of his temperament.  People said he was guaranteed to get sent off during the Old Firm games.  I can understand why he would go in to the match conscious of that and to his credit he stayed on the the pitch for the full 90mins (unlike the defense).  Look at the state of Senderos and his deliberate handball for a red card.  That guy was a disgrace to the jersey.

[Tiger Shaw 30,348]

Just now, TMB said:

When we signed Barton much was made of his temperament.  People said he was guaranteed to get sent off during the Old Firm games.  I can understand why he would go in to the match conscious of that and to his credit he stayed on the the pitch for the full 90mins (unlike the defense).  Look at the state of Senderos and his deliberate handball for a red card.  That guy was a disgrace to the jersey.

Senderos was a disgrace as was Barton.

Credit for saying on the pitch 😆 

Barton’s making excuses for himself and people are on here making excuses for him and his shite attitude.

An attitude like that and he’s was part of the problem that day, he would do well to accept that instead of pointing the finger at everybody else.

[DrLaudrup 4,563]

3 minutes ago, TMB said:

I never said Tavernier was the only reason we have such a good defense.  So I’m not asking to have it both ways.  Tavernier has/is part of strong Rangers defense.  We’ve conceded the exact same amount of league goals as celtic this season and we had the best defensive record in our Europa League group.  Our problem isn’t defensive, it’s offensive.  In particular, a lack of goals after the winter break.

If you want stats look at the amount of goals Tavernier creates from open play and set-pieces and consider how important that is to this Rangers team.  Tavernier lead the SPFL top-tier in assists last season.  This season he’s yet again created more goals than anyone else in a Rangers jersey with a total of 14 assists.  

I'd agree with this and Barton says as much when he states that Tav and Wallace were excellent going forward. His point is that Warburton made a serious error by switching to a back three with himself and 2 defenders who were offensive fullbacks when we should have been shoring things up. 

[TMB 14,167]

Just now, British_Empire said:

The reason Tav leads the stats is because he takes the majority of set pieces and his MO is just to whip the ball into the box wherever possible. At a team like Rangers if that's the game plan and your job you are going to be high up in that regard. 

Not to mention the designated penalty take for so long up until recently. 

That proves to me, beyond all doubt when someone tries to build a case for James Tavernier using stats that stats aren't really worth a fuck. 

Barisic has taken the majority of the set-pieces this season.  I think the only goals that has come from a Tavernier set-piece this season was the corner kick goal against Leverkusen.  So you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the stats to begin with.

Yes, Tavernier’s job is to get forward and fire a cross in.  He’s a great crosser of the ball and we score many goals due to the quality of his delivery.  Can Flanagan or Polster cross the ball like Tavernier?  Of course not.  You’re talking as if any full-back out there can fire in quality crosses which is complete nonsense.

As for stats, I already made the case.  We have the best defensive record in the league along with celtic, and the best defensive record in our Europa Group.  

[ForeverAndEver 71,371]

7 minutes ago, TMB said:

When we signed Barton much was made of his temperament.  People said he was guaranteed to get sent off during the Old Firm games.  I can understand why he would go in to the match conscious of that and to his credit he stayed on the the pitch for the full 90mins (unlike the defense).  Look at the state of Senderos and his deliberate handball for a red card.  That guy was a disgrace to the jersey.

The only reason he was on the pitch was because he couldn’t get near their team all game

[British_Empire 9,648]

1 minute ago, TMB said:

Barisic has taken the majority of the set-pieces this season.  I think the only goals that has come from a Tavernier set-piece this season was the corner kick goal against Leverkusen.  So you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the stats to begin with.

Yes, Tavernier’s job is to get forward and fire a cross in.  He’s a great crosser of the ball and we score many goals due to the quality of his delivery.  Can Flanagan or Polster cross the ball like Tavernier?  Of course not.  You’re talking as if any full-back out there can fire in quality crosses which is complete nonsense.

As for stats, I already made the case.  We have the best defensive record in the league along with celtic, and the best defensive record in our Europa Group.  

I do not have a fundemental misunderstanding of stats. I know exactly how they work, like I said earlier about Candaies and Windass the seasons before - which you've ignored.

He's a great crosser of the ball  that made me laugh. 

[TMB 14,167]

1 minute ago, Tiger Shaw said:

Senderos was a disgrace as was Barton.

Credit for saying on the pitch 😆 

Barton’s making excuses for himself and people are on here making excuses for him and his shite attitude.

An attitude like that and he’s was part of the problem that day, he would do well to accept that instead of pointing the finger at everybody else.

He does deserve credit for staying on the pitch.  Many can’t handle it.  Senderos certainly couldn’t handle it and that’s why we finished that game with no recognised CBs.  

Jordan Jones comes on, gets sent off, and pretty much fucks his Rangers career in the process.  A bit stupid, wasn’t it?

[Tiger Shaw 30,348]

Just now, TMB said:

He does deserve credit for staying on the pitch.  Many can’t handle it.  Senderos certainly couldn’t handle it and that’s why we finished that game with no recognised CBs.  

Jordan Jones comes on, gets sent off, and pretty much fucks his Rangers career in the process.  A bit stupid, wasn’t it?

Aye Senderos and Jordan Jones got sent off in an old firm match so Barton deserves credit for staying on the pitch... Ritghto 

[BridgeIsBlue 66,603]

I can't wait until 20 years time when this period of the last decade is completely erased from memory. 

[TMB 14,167]

Just now, British_Empire said:

I do not have a fundemental misunderstanding of stats. I know exactly how they work, like I said earlier about Candaies and Windass the seasons before - which you've ignored.

He's a great crosser of the ball  that made me laugh. 

You said he only has so many assists because he takes the set-pieces.  Even tho Barisic has been taking most of the set-pieces and most of Tavernier’s assists have come from open play.  I’d say you don’t understand the stats and it’s pretty clear.

Also Tavernier is a great crosser of the ball.  That’s why we score so many goals from them.  35+ assists since Gerrard came in but he can’t cross?   

[British_Empire 9,648]

5 minutes ago, TMB said:

You said he only has so many assists because he takes the set-pieces.  Even tho Barisic has been taking most of the set-pieces and most of Tavernier’s assists have come from open play.  I’d say you don’t understand the stats and it’s pretty clear.

Also Tavernier is a great crosser of the ball.  That’s why we score so many goals from them.  35+ assists since Gerrard came in but he can’t cross?   

I said alot of the set-pieces, not them all. I'm aware that Barisic started taking them recently and also Hagi ... but I've been hearing this argument for him for seasons now when he took everything. 

You are assuming that I have ignored the crosses from open play .... you've ignored the bit in my previous post when I said his MO is just to cross the ball on sight, all the time ... that does not indicate that I have a misunderstanding of how stats work when I said he crosses the ball every time he get's a glimpse.

If you hit 100 crosses and 86 of them are shite, but 14 stick and it's a goal you have 14 assists viola ... 

Why does your logic not appear to extend to Candaies and Windass? do you make the same case for them being great too? 

[ForeverAndEver 71,371]

4 minutes ago, British_Empire said:

I said alot of the set-pieces, not them all. I'm aware that Barisic started taking them recently and also Hagi ... but I've been hearing this argument for him for seasons now when he took everything. 

You are assuming that I have ignored the crosses from open play .... you've ignored the bit in my previous post when I said his MO is just to cross the ball on sight, all the time ... that does not indicate that I have a misunderstanding of how stats work when I said he crosses the ball every time he get's a glimpse.

If you hit 100 crosses and 86 of them are shite, but 14 stick and it's a goal you have 14 assists viola ... 

Why does your logic not appear to extend to Candaies and Windass? do you make the same case for them being great too? 

Don’t get him started on that useless cunt Candeias please

[TMB 14,167]

4 minutes ago, British_Empire said:

If you hit 100 crosses and 86 of them are shite, but 14 stick and it's a goal you have 14 assists viola ... 

But he hasn’t hit 100 crosses you just made that up.  Do you have any real world arguments?  

[ShanksRFC 3,868]

Warburton shaking like a shitting dog is no surprise

I was surprised to hear Kenny Miller thinking he should have deserved more time in his Si Ferry interview.

[TMB 14,167]

Just now, ForeverAndEver said:

Don’t get him started on that useless cunt Candeias please

I’ve no interest in discussing Candeias or that donkey Windass.  

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,334]

A wank slagging off another wanker.

[British_Empire 9,648]

3 minutes ago, TMB said:

But he hasn’t hit 100 crosses you just made that up.  Do you have any real world arguments?  

I was using that as an example, to indicate how somehow who just whips the ball in every single time, on sight, and if a few of them are good then it manipulates the stats into creating a picture and narrative that he's amazing at crossing the balls. 

If one in every ten crosses are great and give us a goal from it, then the stats start to look good but a 1 in 10 success rate does not indicate you being good at anything. Not in the real world anyway.

[British_Empire 9,648]

6 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Don’t get him started on that useless cunt Candeias please

He's avoiding it like the plague anyway. I'll not mention them again to him as it doesn't fit his perspective. Waste of time.