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20 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

I've been saying what Dalglish said for the last two weeks. It is possible although not probable but only because there is no more time to challenge the tainted title.

Hearts / Thistle get a victory and everything is possible. The foreign leagues a stage ahead of us in their legal processes are showing nothing is out of the question, nothing can be guaranteed/ ruled out.

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15 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Hearts / Thistle get a victory and everything is possible. The foreign leagues a stage ahead of us in their legal processes are showing nothing is out of the question, nothing can be guaranteed/ ruled out.

You know, I think I would be fine in awarding European placements based on standings at the time of Covid even though it is a massive loss of potential money. But certainly not a title that wasn't won.

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4 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Sir Kenny Dalglish: If the Hearts and Partick win relegation case, what’s to stop other clubs fighting for league titles to be declared null and void?

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/kenny-dalglish-hearts-partick/

 

Precisely. Hearts and PT have the stronger case to overturn the dodgy vote with our dossier to assist so we let them do that. Once they win THEN we go in for the kill citing that decision and European Precedent. 

We have waited a while but hopefully things are nicely falling into place.

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The irony is that, if Doncaster had done his job properly and honestly,  and had presented ALL the options (including null and void) with respective pros and cons,  there’s every chance it would have failed to secure the required support.

In which case, he’d not be worrying if this abortion of a process might yet derail his ticket to the UEFA gravy train.

His determination to close the season down ASAP for the benefit of just one club is the catalyst for the complete mess we’ve had for three months.

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25 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

The irony is that, if Doncaster had done his job properly and honestly,  and had presented ALL the options (including null and void) with respective pros and cons,  there’s every chance it would have failed to secure the required support.

Very true, in any well run corporate this would have been the standard. The current SPFL and the influence it bends to has been able to dictate and control the narrative and call the shots on all matters unopposed for so long it’s gotten lazy and arrogant without thinking it even needs to show alternative. This time hopefully will truly be the start of their downfall and not before time...

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1 hour ago, Colin Traive said:

The irony is that, if Doncaster had done his job properly and honestly,  and had presented ALL the options (including null and void) with respective pros and cons,  there’s every chance it would have failed to secure the required support.

In which case, he’d not be worrying if this abortion of a process might yet derail his ticket to the UEFA gravy train.

His determination to close the season down ASAP for the benefit of just one club is the catalyst for the complete mess we’ve had for three months.

If he'd have said the vote was a no vote, and then  brought the same resolution again days later then with Dundee slinking over the resolution would have passed without all the hullabaloo thats brought the dossier and legal action.

Your way as above would have categorically made life easier for him and the spfl right now, but simple decisions like I've mentioned would have had similar impact for little effort.

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5 hours ago, Blue Nosed Babe said:

Precisely. Hearts and PT have the stronger case to overturn the dodgy vote with our dossier to assist so we let them do that. Once they win THEN we go in for the kill citing that decision and European Precedent. 

We have waited a while but hopefully things are nicely falling into place.

HoM and PT have a great case and IMO should win. The board should look at what Budge is doing and see that she has the backing of every Hearts fan. IF they win the case, our board should do as you say and go for the kill. There isn't a supporter who wouldn't back them and we'd be in our right as a club to challenge the legitimacy of the title being awarded.

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10 hours ago, bluenoz said:

You know, I think I would be fine in awarding European placements based on standings at the time of Covid even though it is a massive loss of potential money. But certainly not a title that wasn't won.

I think many Rangers fans would have seen that as a score draw and moved on.

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11 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Sir Kenny Dalglish: If the Hearts and Partick win relegation case, what’s to stop other clubs fighting for league titles to be declared null and void?

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/kenny-dalglish-hearts-partick/

 

Dalglish is only piping up to put pressure on the panel with the hope HoM/PT fail.

He’s been rolled out by the fat jap.

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On 11/07/2020 at 20:18, Dave Hedgehog said:

Remember in the court case the opposition to the Hearts/Partick Thistle case stated that Hearts/Partick Thistle had taken too long to bring proceedings to court?

Well here we are 8 days later and nothing has happened.

Are the SPFL struggling to bring the evidence they need to supply under law?

The clock is ticking fast and they aren’t looking too clever.

Maybe evidence has been found of illegal interference in the process of the Good Friday vote. If so the fraud squad will need to investigate it, which would mean Lawwell's involvement in this whole mess will be unveiled. 

  

6 hours ago, Swally said:

Does anyone get the feeling we have expertly orchestrated this whole scenario right from the start?

We lost some fights, but we may still win the war!

I don't think Rangers have orchestrated anything. I think the whistle blower brought something to the attention of our board and they followed due process to try and get the evidence heard. We still haven't heard what the whistle blower evidence is. Hopefully at some point the right platform for disclosure will be made available, as there is something in the whistle blowers evidence that the SPFL desperately doesn't want made public.

I believe once Rangers have the right platform for disclosure of the whistle blowers evidence the club will be back in the fight to clean up Scottish football.

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15 hours ago, bluenoz said:

You know, I think I would be fine in awarding European placements based on standings at the time of Covid even though it is a massive loss of potential money. But certainly not a title that wasn't won.

Couldnt do that, if the likes of hearts, partick etc can try claim compensation for being relegated with an unfinished season, then teams could do the same regarding euro places and league places etc, 

The only option other than awarding titles and relegation is a null and void, reset back to the start of the season and use last years standings for euro places, or else finish the season, 

If n&v teams wouldnt have a comeback as the season is declared incomplete so therefore no clubs benefit or lose out as nothing was settled or guaranteed 

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2 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Couldnt do that, if the likes of hearts, partick etc can try claim compensation for being relegated with an unfinished season, then teams could do the same regarding euro places and league places etc, 

The only option other than awarding titles and relegation is a null and void, reset back to the start of the season and use last years standings for euro places, or else finish the season, 

If n&v teams wouldnt have a comeback as the season is declared incomplete so therefore no clubs benefit or lose out as nothing was settled or guaranteed 

100% spot on.

This has been my view since day one. Season 19/20 was abandoned and, in football, abandonment means restart from scratch.

One of the arguments was that clubs were not being rewarded for their efforts but that was just another lie - they would still be allocated their share of SPFL prize money based on their efforts so far, the scum getting biggest slice in the top tier, Dundee Scum in the Championship etc.

But the fact that we are the only European league (AFAIK) to have stuck with this carve up just makes the corruption stick out like a sore thumb.

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4 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Couldnt do that, if the likes of hearts, partick etc can try claim compensation for being relegated with an unfinished season, then teams could do the same regarding euro places and league places etc, 

The only option other than awarding titles and relegation is a null and void, reset back to the start of the season and use last years standings for euro places, or else finish the season, 

If n&v teams wouldnt have a comeback as the season is declared incomplete so therefore no clubs benefit or lose out as nothing was settled or guaranteed 

By and large agree with this.

However clubs can only really fight against injustices for how the spfl manage their affairs in their own competition.  Uefa giving scope to the spfl to identify and nominate teams based on sporting merit would likely negate any challenges on that front, given sporting merit is open to numerous interpretations.

I'm not saying its right, I just dont think clubs would have a strong case if the spfl awarded European slots based on positions in the league just ended even if it was annulled / cancelled/ voided.

Doesn't really affect us anyways, our position wouldn't change and the scum would still get the CL slot if it was based on 2018/19 finishing positions.

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3 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

By and large agree with this.

However clubs can only really fight against injustices for how the spfl manage their affairs in their own competition.  Uefa giving scope to the spfl to identify and nominate teams based on sporting merit would likely negate any challenges on that front, given sporting merit is open to numerous interpretations.

I'm not saying its right, I just dont think clubs would have a strong case if the spfl awarded European slots based on positions in the league just ended even if it was annulled / cancelled/ voided.

Doesn't really affect us anyways, our position wouldn't change and the scum would still get the CL slot if it was based on 2018/19 finishing positions.

The other benefit of going down your road would be to recognise the efforts of top tier teams during the season, albeit the season would be abandoned.

I’ll be really interested to see what remedy the arbiters come up with if they side with Hearts and Thistle. What are their options?

  • forced reconstruction?
  • instruct the SPFL to rerun the “Dundee” vote?
  • null and void the season?
  • decide on a compensation figure and let the ruling stand?

The danger with this last option is that a significant compensation figure (ie millions) is, in effect, a tax on every club in the country.

Suppose one or more say they are unwilling to have their SPFL funding reduced because of this. “Why should we have to lose out?” More legal action? Could you blame them?

I honestly don’t see a better way out of this than scrapping the season completely. If there is a viable alternative, I haven’t heard it.

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17 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

By and large agree with this.

However clubs can only really fight against injustices for how the spfl manage their affairs in their own competition.  Uefa giving scope to the spfl to identify and nominate teams based on sporting merit would likely negate any challenges on that front, given sporting merit is open to numerous interpretations.

I'm not saying its right, I just dont think clubs would have a strong case if the spfl awarded European slots based on positions in the league just ended even if it was annulled / cancelled/ voided.

Doesn't really affect us anyways, our position wouldn't change and the scum would still get the CL slot if it was based on 2018/19 finishing positions.

They would have less of a case if the SPFL just said "this season is abandoned, no records of this season will be kept, its literally a side note in the history" 

They literally couldnt award clubs for something they didn't earn fully, or else you get the likes of dundee united etc going back to court (if they could avoid it) 

The safest way that the SPFL had was to finish the season or null it, they didn't do either cause the tarriers are skint and badly needed the title

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1 minute ago, Colin Traive said:

The other benefit of going down your road would be to recognise the efforts of top tier teams during the season, albeit the season would be abandoned.

I’ll be really interested to see what remedy the arbiters come up with if they side with Hearts and Thistle. What are their options?

  • forced reconstruction?
  • instruct the SPFL to rerun the “Dundee” vote?
  • null and void the season?
  • decide on a compensation figure and let the ruling stand?

The danger with this last option is that a significant compensation figure (ie millions) is, in effect, a tax on every club in the country.

Suppose one or more say they are unwilling to have their SPFL funding reduced because of this. “Why should we have to lose out?” More legal action? Could you blame them?

I honestly don’t see a better way out of this than scrapping the season completely. If there is a viable alternative, I haven’t heard it.

What about allow the awarding of champions but relegation and promotion cannot be adhered to for that season. That allows them to maintain their only concern. Dundee Utd etc will be the new pawns. 

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3 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

The other benefit of going down your road would be to recognise the efforts of top tier teams during the season, albeit the season would be abandoned.

I’ll be really interested to see what remedy the arbiters come up with if they side with Hearts and Thistle. What are their options?

  • forced reconstruction?
  • instruct the SPFL to rerun the “Dundee” vote?
  • null and void the season?
  • decide on a compensation figure and let the ruling stand?

The danger with this last option is that a significant compensation figure (ie millions) is, in effect, a tax on every club in the country.

Suppose one or more say they are unwilling to have their SPFL funding reduced because of this. “Why should we have to lose out?” More legal action? Could you blame them?

I honestly don’t see a better way out of this than scrapping the season completely. If there is a viable alternative, I haven’t heard it.

Cant force reconstruction, its a members vote for that, cant rerun the original vote as the arbitration will be looking into the shady going ons with dundee, why run it again so they can just vote again based on underhand dealings

Option 3 and 4 are the only two available now, and 4 will cause chaos

And its this that makes me think the SPFL will get away with this

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2 minutes ago, Howsitgoing said:

What about allow the awarding of champions but relegation and promotion cannot be adhered to for that season. That allows them to maintain their only concern. Dundee Utd etc will be the new pawns. 

Nope, if someone is a champion they earned the right to get the benefits of that, hence promotion to the league above

If the season isnt finished you need to null it or award everything, not something but everything, and thats what hearts etc are fighting against

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Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

Nope, if someone is a champion they earned the right to get the benefits of that, hence promotion to the league above

If the season isnt finished you need to null it or award everything, not something but everything, and thats what hearts etc are fighting against

Hearts/Thistle are only contesting the rules added that allow promotion and relegation. I wouldn’t put it past SFA to agree that these specific rules can’t be adhered too but the rules govern the awarding of champions can still stand. Unless our club contest that then no one will argue. 

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