Squad Ins and Outs Discussion

[Broxi 11,473]

4 minutes ago, The Monk said:

I think McCrorie has a decent chance of making it with us as McGregors replacement. Patterson desperately needs a loan to a team in the premiership, even our best youngsters seem to go out on loan to lower end Championship and League One clubs. We need to send them out to teams in our league to properly test their ability at this level, I’m surprised we aren’t able to loan players like Patterson or McPake for example to a Hamilton or St Johnstone.

This was also a point I had in my head when I was replying to these yesterday. All of our best youth players like Kelly etc have only gone on loan to lower league clubs. Yet they are expected to play for us? 

Even Middleton, who was an absolutely country mile stand out in the youth team couldn't really make it at Hibs.

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Look I'm not saying Patterson can't or won't be good, or McPake or any of them. But we can't be going into this season with a significant part of the squad relying on the quality of players that our record in does not hold up even slightly. 

[shaka 1,669]

4 hours ago, Broxi said:

Name one youth player who has genuinely been good enough to play for Rangers at this level in the last 10 years

Liam Kelly, now at QPR, could've been a decent backup keeper.

We need to improve in giving chances to young players.  It can't be good in the long run to be known as the team that would rather bring in other teams' youth players or sign average players as backup and give them a chance before we give an opportunity to our own youth players.

Personally I'd rather see us become more like an Ajax type team that produces it's own superstars and sells them for a profit rather than keep signing "solid" squad players with no potential to improve and even less chance of becoming first picks.  It's also our best bet for winning the league and cups again.  Have a lot of squad players does not win anything.

[The Monk 3,207]

Just now, Broxi said:

This was also a point I had in my head when I was replying to these yesterday. All of our best youth players like Kelly etc have only gone on loan to lower league clubs. Yet they are expected to play for us? 

Even Middleton, who was an absolutely country mile stand out in the youth team couldn't really make it at Hibs.

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Look I'm not saying Patterson can't or won't be good, or McPake or any of them. But we can't be going into this season with a significant part of the squad relying on the quality of players that our record in does not hold up even slightly. 

Yeah agreed. If we can have youth players getting 20-30 games under their belt in the Scottish premiership we are in a much better position to tell if a player is good enough and will be much more able to cope with the demands than for example playing 30 games in league 1 with Ayr then getting chucked in against a Motherwell or Hibs.

[Broxi 11,473]

3 minutes ago, shaka said:

Liam Kelly, now at QPR, could've been a decent backup keeper.

We need to improve in giving chances to young players.  It can't be good in the long run to be known as the team that would rather bring in other teams' youth players or sign average players as backup and give them a chance before we give an opportunity to our own youth players.

Personally I'd rather see us become more like an Ajax type team that produces it's own superstars and sells them for a profit rather than keep signing "solid" squad players with no potential to improve and even less chance of becoming first picks.  It's also our best bet for winning the league and cups again.  Have a lot of squad players does not win anything.

Ajax have produced Alderweireld (Tottenham), Blind (Man Utd/Ajax), Heitinga (Everton), Nigel de Jong (Man City, AC Milan), Sneidjer (Inter Milan), Van der Vaart (Real Madrid, Tottenham), Vermaelan (Arsenal), Vertonghen (Tottenham), Van der Beek (insert big name here), Eriksen (Tottenham, Inter Milan), Frenkie de Jong (Barcelona) and de Ligt (Juventus) for god knows how many millions through their first team

We have produced Jamie Ness (Dundee), Rhys McCabe (Brechin City), Lewis MacLeod (Wigan) and Barrie McKay (Fleetwood Town)

[British_Empire 9,648]

29 minutes ago, G.E.C. said:

If Lewis Macleod wasn’t built like crisps he’d be at a high level now.

Don't agree. He was one of the most over-rated players ever. He was like Greg Docherty. 

Young, Scottish, good engine etc but technically I just didn't see it. 

[Broxi 11,473]

4 minutes ago, The Monk said:

Yeah agreed. If we can have youth players getting 20-30 games under their belt in the Scottish premiership we are in a much better position to tell if a player is good enough and will be much more able to cope with the demands than for example playing 30 games in league 1 with Ayr then getting chucked in against a Motherwell or Hibs.

Exactly mate, get players on loan to Scottish Premiership teams and it'll be far easier to see if they are up to scratch.

Even players like McCrorie (both), Docherty, Barker... give them to upper end Prem teams, the youth to lower end teams and see how they do. They're getting experience in the league we hope they will play in, will help take points off of them and will weaken teams against us. (blah blah don't give the other teams anything whatever). 

[bluenoz 30,689]

Robertson saying incoming players next week. Hladky would be my first guess.

[British_Empire 9,648]

Just now, bluenoz said:

Robertson saying incoming players next week. Hladky would be my first guess.

Is that that St Mirren keeper? did he say players as in more than one? 

[Broxi 11,473]

3 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

Robertson saying incoming players next week. Hladky would be my first guess.

Where was this mate?

It wasn't in the Rangers TV interview. He said he hopes there will be more additions in the near future. I never saw next week anywhere?

[Broxi 11,473]

For what it's worth I'll be surprised if we don't sign Hladky and think he'd be a good signing as a back up with view to possibly taking over after McGregor

[STEPPS BOY 73,805]

34 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

We need to have sell-on clauses that give us a % if the player move on. We don't do this enough. 

I heard (not sure if true) that the taigs get 30% of Hickey's transfer if he moves on. He played for them at u18.

We should have got more for Gilmour. I know it was his decision to leave but we are not the best negotiators or at least weren't. At least Wilson renegotiated Hagi so hopefully we become stronger in that department..

We have a clause agreement in place for Gilmour.

[STEVEH 83]

Stewart Robertson: 
"Our planning for next season is well underway, and we were delighted to secure the permanent services of Ianis Hagi on a long term, permanent deal. Ross Wilson is continuing to explore options in the transfer market, we will update on further incoming players within the next week."

[STEVEH 83]

Sounds like 1 or 2 more signings are imminent.

[shaka 1,669]

29 minutes ago, Broxi said:

Ajax have produced Alderweireld (Tottenham), Blind (Man Utd/Ajax), Heitinga (Everton), Nigel de Jong (Man City, AC Milan), Sneidjer (Inter Milan), Van der Vaart (Real Madrid, Tottenham), Vermaelan (Arsenal), Vertonghen (Tottenham), Van der Beek (insert big name here), Eriksen (Tottenham, Inter Milan), Frenkie de Jong (Barcelona) and de Ligt (Juventus) for god knows how many millions through their first team

We have produced Jamie Ness (Dundee), Rhys McCabe (Brechin City), Lewis MacLeod (Wigan) and Barrie McKay (Fleetwood Town)

I'm not saying we are already at Ajax levels for youth development.  I'm raising that as the ideal.  It should be what we aspire for, rather than constantly wasting money on average players who are never good enough to be anything other than squad players.

[bluenoz 30,689]

3 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

We have a clause agreement in place for Gilmour.

We do? Well, that is good news. I did not know that. Barcelona for 100M in three years time 🙂

[British_Empire 9,648]

23 minutes ago, shaka said:

I'm not saying we are already at Ajax levels for youth development.  I'm raising that as the ideal.  It should be what we aspire for, rather than constantly wasting money on average players who are never good enough to be anything other than squad players.

I do agree with this even tho I don't think we can throw the kids in at the moment. Historically, there's got to have been youth players who would be able to come in and contribute a hell of a lot more than the likes of Halliday, Holt, O'Halloran, Dodoo, McAuley, Ojo, Sodiq, Sean Goss, Russell Martin, Jordan Rossiter, Barker etc

That's with a partial element of hindsight tho, because the majority of us were saying no no no when we signed most of them.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626]

20 minutes ago, Broxi said:

Ajax have produced Alderweireld (Tottenham), Blind (Man Utd/Ajax), Heitinga (Everton), Nigel de Jong (Man City, AC Milan), Sneidjer (Inter Milan), Van der Vaart (Real Madrid, Tottenham), Vermaelan (Arsenal), Vertonghen (Tottenham), Van der Beek (insert big name here), Eriksen (Tottenham, Inter Milan), Frenkie de Jong (Barcelona) and de Ligt (Juventus) for god knows how many millions through their first team

We have produced Jamie Ness (Dundee), Rhys McCabe (Brechin City), Lewis MacLeod (Wigan) and Barrie McKay (Fleetwood Town)

Stunning array of players. But Ajax fans get used to peaks and troughs and must accept that developing and selling top players is their strategy.

Imagine us selling our top players every summer, folk would still expect us to win the league each season and scream for the manager to be sacked as a failure when we dont.

[shaka 1,669]

17 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Stunning array of players. But Ajax fans get used to peaks and troughs and must accept that developing and selling top players is their strategy.

Imagine us selling our top players every summer, folk would still expect us to win the league each season and scream for the manager to be sacked as a failure when we dont.

We already expect to sell our top players.  No one realistically expects us to keep Morelos and he's our best forward.

As long as we keep bringing in young players, improving them and selling them for a suitably high price we will continue to be successful in Scotland.

We won't have the same level of competition Ajax have as we only really have to compete with the scum and they already operate a similar system.  We just need to make sure our scouting for young players is better than them and then actually give those players an opportunity in the first team.

[bluenoz 30,689]

I heard we are linked with Ivan Toney. Peterborough fans sing a song about the size of his tadger.  I wonder what FARE would think of that? Ha!

[BlueKnight87 17,281]

49 minutes ago, shaka said:

I'm not saying we are already at Ajax levels for youth development.  I'm raising that as the ideal.  It should be what we aspire for, rather than constantly wasting money on average players who are never good enough to be anything other than squad players.

Agree the ajax model is what we should be aiming for long term.

Short term next season but we can't really afford to blood young players.

We will need a squad of players that can at minimum hit 7/10 performances every week to challenge.

We already have issues in the first team doing that and need better quality players ready made for the first team to improve it.   

[bluenoz 30,689]

4 minutes ago, BlueKnight87 said:

Agree the ajax model is what we should be aiming for long term.

Short term next season but we can't really afford to blood young players.

We will need a squad of players that can at minimum that can hit 7/10 performances every week to challenge.

We already have issues in the first team doing that and need better quality players ready made for the first team to improve it.   

I fear our young players are going to suffer this year as it is a must we stop 10.

[Broxi 11,473]

14 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

I heard we are linked with Ivan Toney. Peterborough fans sing a song about the size of his tadger.  I wonder what FARE would think of that? Ha!

Stats and video check out

Would seem like a good alternative to Morelos depending on cost

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626]

14 minutes ago, shaka said:

We already expect to sell our top players.  No one realistically expects us to keep Morelos and he's our best forward.

As long as we keep bringing in young players, improving them and selling them for a suitably high price we will continue to be successful in Scotland.

We won't have the same level of competition Ajax have as we only really have to compete with the scum and they already operate a similar system.  We just need to make sure our scouting for young players is better than them and then actually give those players an opportunity in the first team.

We dont really. We talk about building teams around them. Only recently have we relented a bit, and that's as much due to Morelos letting it be known he's  got bigger leagues in his sights and his disciplinary record.

Weve not brought through many young players of quality in recent years, but if we introduced and played the next Billy Gilmour folk will be rioting if we sold him. 

It'll take years, and continued success, for our mentality to get used to accepting such a strategy. Which is the right strategy btw 

[bluenoz 30,689]

47 minutes ago, British_Empire said:

Is that that St Mirren keeper? did he say players as in more than one? 

Yes to keeper and I believe he did say player(s)

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,754]

We haven’t been great at producing young players (considering all that has happened at the club in the lat ten years is it any wonder) but it’s an area we simply have to improve in.

All the bigger clubs in the smaller leagues are already operating with one hand tied behind their back and most of them develop players of their own because it’s one of the best ways to give themselves their best chance of generating income.

We simply need to improve the pathway to the first team, we need to find a way to  find a bridge that allows us to have players continue to progress once they reach a certain age because at the moment we seem to be strongly represented by players in the Scotland under teams and it isn’t translating to more first team players and we need to pick and choose what teams players go out on loan to better as well.