The time has come for Rangers fans to rekindled their love for the national side

[plumbGER 24,518]

When I used to take in the odd Scotland game at Hampden I used to hate how everybody in the press and so on sees the Scotland support as 'The Tartan army' when you can actually be a Scotland fan without being in the Tartan army.

I hated being classed the same as a bunch of paedophiles who like to flash their willy winky's at men, women and children. 

Any other walk of life you get the jail for that.

[OceanRain 2,845]

[Bad Robot 21,148]

3 hours ago, TartanTeddy said:

It's a well intentioned article but it deals with a problem that isn't really quite as pronounced as suggested.

Decline in support for the national team over the past 20 years is no surprise, that simply comes with not being successful in qualifying for tournaments since 1998. Support will clearly increase with qualification for the Euro's - people want to watch a successful team, and one playing in the major tournaments. Ticket applications will go up, membership of the Scotland supporters club will go up, media interest will go up and that will drive more fans to return to watch international games.

I've probably missed half a dozen Scotland games, home and away, since 1998. The group I travel with has always had a majority Rangers fans and I personally know dozens of Bears who attend games home and away, and whenever you meet up with a group of supporters abroad it's no surprise to find we are easily the largest team represented. 

And on the points that some on here will raise. The only people suggesting Bears get hassle from other fans at Scotland games are people that don't go. The only people suggesting there aren't large numbers of Bears continuing to support the national team are people that don't know. The Scotland Supporters Club do regular 'audit's' of who travel and which team they support - consistently Rangers come out in front to the extent that it's not even something anyone within the support questions. 

As fan numbers go up with the teams recent success, I fully expect that increase will have a similar (higher) percentage of Rangers fans than that of other clubs.

 

 

and what in your opinion is the mix of all the support between unionism and nationalism and the same question for the Rangers support who go to see Scotland?

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, OceanRain said:

Link to study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249733547_The_Patriot_GameFootball's_Famous_Tartan_Army'

using data collected in 1996.

[OceanRain 2,845]

2 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

When I used to take in the odd Scotland game at Hampden I used to hate how everybody in the press and so on sees the Scotland support as 'The Tartan army' when you can actually be a Scotland fan without being in the Tartan army.

I hated being classed the same as a bunch of paedophiles who like to flash their willy winky's at men, women and children. 

Any other walk of life you get the jail for that.

You can also be a Rangers supporter without being a Unionist.

I've just always been highly suspect about that element of the support.

[folkestoneger 8,133]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

We did. We set immigration numbers. The UK courts had the power to expel any EU citizen regardless of free movement. Being a member of a common travel area doesn't mean we handed over control of out borders to Brussels or anyone else. But, it was a handly lie to tell the cult members.

Unlike the majority of Schengen nations. Any EU Citizen wishing to enter the UK was required to provide a passport proving they were entitled to entry to the UK.

The UK courts did not have the power to expel any eu citizen regardless of free movement. Having to simply provide a passport to gain entry is hardly controlling anything

[OceanRain 2,845]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

using data collected in 1996.

I literally gave the date, mate.

Keep up.

[plumbGER 24,518]

Just now, Monkey Butler said:

Outdated sweeping generalisations still prevail that all Scotland fans and tarriers are SNP supporters and all Rangers fans are Tory supporters.

Outside of the online forum bubbles, I think you'd find that the majority of Rangers fans are also Scotland supporters (maybe they're not travelling supporters, but they still consider themselves fans), and a large chunk of them will be SNP supporters.

It's mental because the SNP aren't exactly accepted en-masse amongst the beggars support, through work I know a lot of their older generation of fans are still very much anti SNP (tartan tories) and anti-nationalist but asking them to admit to being a Unionist is usually met with "fuck off" they just see holes in the independence arguement.

The one thing we have in common with the beggars is that we both have massive fanbases and that will in turn bring fans from all walks of life. Sure it's easy to have generalisations but for any football club to thrive they need a constant turnover of supporter, we can't afford to turn away fans for reasons outwith football.

What I can't abide is when we, for talking sake, get a nationalist fan amongst us and he starts slagging the very fabric upon which our club was built and trying to tell us how wrong we are because collectively the world sees us as the Protestant quintessential Scottish/British football club with the strong Unionist/Loyalist support. For me if you choose to support Rangers you choose to identify with those traits whether you like it or not.

 

[plumbGER 24,518]

9 minutes ago, OceanRain said:

You can also be a Rangers supporter without being a Unionist.

I've just always been highly suspect about that element of the support.

See my post above mate.

[The Dude 20,026]

9 minutes ago, OceanRain said:

I literally gave the date, mate.

Keep up.

Using 25-year-old data doesn't bear any relevance to today though. People's political outlook can change in quarter of a century.

[OceanRain 2,845]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Using 25-year-old data doesn't bear any relevance to today though. People's political outlook can change in quarter of a century.

Stunning observation from our resident journalist, here.

[Monkey Butler 23,020]

25 minutes ago, OceanRain said:

Link to study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249733547_The_Patriot_GameFootball's_Famous_Tartan_Army'

I think @plumbGER's point about being 'caught up in national fever' is probably validated in the section below i.e. you're pissed up at a Scotland match with your kilt and jimmy wig on, so you're probably more likely to proclaim yourself as a staunch nationalist, especially at a tournament that is taking place in England and we're playing them.

 

Quote

Nonetheless, one of the reasons for these figures almost certainly lies in the heightened degree of national identity and nationalist feelings found in the Scottish international football environment. Believing that these feelings and an apposite identity were reflected in adherence to the political nationalism of the Scottish National Party, one fan articulated the view that, ‘everyone in the support was SNP’. This came as a surprise to his group of fellow fans where, on closer inspection, support for the three main Scottish parties was found in equal numbers. However, another supporter’s view that ‘I use the Scottish team to project my nationalism, it goes hand in hand’ was the most explicit expression of the links between being a fan of Scotland and nationalist identity in particular and sport and nationalism generally.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, OceanRain said:

Stunning observation from our resident journalist, here.

Glad to be of service.

 

 

[Monkey Butler 23,020]

29 minutes ago, OceanRain said:

 

It's also interesting that we had the largest share of supporters there (well, when you discount 'others').

 

 

 

[McEwan's Lager 30,522]

14 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Using 25-year-old data doesn't bear any relevance to today though. People's political outlook can change in quarter of a century.

Read the thread back a page. He said:

"There was a study done at Euro '96 which showed 33% of Scotland supporters asked were SNP voters (31% Labour) 

I have absolutely zero doubt that the shift from Labour to SNP in Scotland since then hasn't been equally reflective in those stats."

I defend you often on here but sometimes you really don't help yourself getting into petty arguments like this with people.

[OceanRain 2,845]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Butler said:

 

It's also interesting that we had the largest share of supporters there (well, when you discount 'others').

 

 

 

Yes, I thought that too. Quite surprised, to be honest.

I'm currently looking for a more contemporary paper. You'd think given how prominent the independence debate has been there'd be a more recent study.

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

Gone from being a prominent member in the Scotland international club to having very little interest in it.

The entire political situation in Scotland stinks, along with the snp and the sfa/spfl.

All anti RFC.

[OceanRain 2,845]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Glad to be of service.

 

 

[STEPPS BOY 73,890]

Have the chance of going to the game at Wembley but Couldn’t cheer cunts  like Griffiths or Gallagher when i know the hate my club and our supporters.

Couldn’t stomach being in same support as all the nationalists either.

Meh about Scotland and can’t see that changing now.

[TartanTeddy 758]

48 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

and what in your opinion is the mix of all the support between unionism and nationalism and the same question for the Rangers support who go to see Scotland?

Well it would only be my opinion based on who I travel with because, apart from in the immediate run up to the referendum, politics isn't something you hear all that much about when travelling to games. But I would say you have about a half of the support who would be heavily into independence, a quarter who are pro indy but not so overt and about a quarter I would have little or no idea of their politics. In the run up to the referendum I met people on trips who said they would vote No but those that were open about it were a definite minority - but that was in the months leading up to the referendum where it was a popular choice of discussion in pubs and bars.

In saying that, one of the lads I see at a lot of the games, is a Bear who is very open about being a staunch unionist and he loves to get into an argument. Seen him frustrate and piss people off but he's never had hassle of anyone and if it did happen, I think it would be the more pro Independence people who would jump in to support him.

If you were to equate any songs around unionism/ulster at Rangers games with pro Indy songs at Scotland games, I would say that there is probably a far more of a political opinion voiced at Ibrox than there ever is at Scotland games.

I would add that in my younger days I used to travel abroad for Rangers games as well. But to be honest I found a lot of the opinions voiced in foreign places (FTP songs in places like Milan and Porto) to be something I didn't want to be around and found the Scotland games far more enjoyable and relaxed because there was far less of that type of offence caused to people not connected to the games. 

The Scotland support are no angels and I see plenty of twats following the team and making a complete arse of themselves, but you'll get that with every large group of fans regardless of their beliefs. I like the mix of club fans, the wee bit of banter that occassionaly generates and having a good time on a trip to some places I would never have visited otherwise.

Personally I love the trips and I miss them as much as I miss going to Ibrox (where I've had the same seat for 25 + years). No interest in convincing people to go watch Scotland, but some of the bs people make up on here about what it's like to be a Bear at Scotland games is so far from the truth that it needs to be put in check

  

[They Gnu 11,553]

19 minutes ago, Monkey Butler said:

 

It's also interesting that we had the largest share of supporters there (well, when you discount 'others').

 

 

 

At one time we made up more than half of the Scotland Support.

[Prso's headband 35,428]

I don’t think a Rangers fan could go to a Scotland game with a Rangers top on. That’s a problem for Scotland fans, not Rangers. 
 

Yet to see McGregor or Christie get booed in a Scotland jersey. From Wallace to Ryan Jack since 2012 it’s happened to each Rangers player. 
 

Fuck them. It’s them that need to change their bigoted attitudes towards supporters of the biggest team in the country, not the other way around 

[OceanRain 2,845]

An interesting recent take on things.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/sport/2020/11/why-scotland-qualifying-euro-2021-matters-snp

[They Gnu 11,553]

3 minutes ago, TartanTeddy said:

Well it would only be my opinion based on who I travel with because, apart from in the immediate run up to the referendum, politics isn't something you hear all that much about when travelling to games. But I would say you have about a half of the support who would be heavily into independence, a quarter who are pro indy but not so overt and about a quarter I would have little or no idea of their politics. In the run up to the referendum I met people on trips who said they would vote No but those that were open about it were a definite minority - but that was in the months leading up to the referendum where it was a popular choice of discussion in pubs and bars.

In saying that, one of the lads I see at a lot of the games, is a Bear who is very open about being a staunch unionist and he loves to get into an argument. Seen him frustrate and piss people off but he's never had hassle of anyone and if it did happen, I think it would be the more pro Independence people who would jump in to support him.

If you were to equate any songs around unionism/ulster at Rangers games with pro Indy songs at Scotland games, I would say that there is probably a far more of a political opinion voiced at Ibrox than there ever is at Scotland games.

I would add that in my younger days I used to travel abroad for Rangers games as well. But to be honest I found a lot of the opinions voiced in foreign places (FTP songs in places like Milan and Porto) to be something I didn't want to be around and found the Scotland games far more enjoyable and relaxed because there was far less of that type of offence caused to people not connected to the games. 

The Scotland support are no angels and I see plenty of twats following the team and making a complete arse of themselves, but you'll get that with every large group of fans regardless of their beliefs. I like the mix of club fans, the wee bit of banter that occassionaly generates and having a good time on a trip to some places I would never have visited otherwise.

Personally I love the trips and I miss them as much as I miss going to Ibrox (where I've had the same seat for 25 + years). No interest in convincing people to go watch Scotland, but some of the bs people make up on here about what it's like to be a Bear at Scotland games is so far from the truth that it needs to be put in check

  

Scotland Fans at a ROI v Scotland match we’re singing We hate Rangers More Than You. I grew up fanatically supporting Scotland and had some great memories but they left me, I didn’t leave them. I didn’t even know they were playing Serbia recently and really don’t care if they win lose or draw. 

[TartanTeddy 758]

4 minutes ago, They Gnu said:

Scotland Fans at a ROI v Scotland match we’re singing We hate Rangers More Than You. I grew up fanatically supporting Scotland and had some great memories but they left me, I didn’t leave them. I didn’t even know they were playing Serbia recently and really don’t care if they win lose or draw. 

Can you post the clip - you clearly weren't there as your not a Scotland fan (which is fine btw). So you must have the clip or sound bite.

I would have been at the game, but may have missed it?

Don't get me wrong, I think you can can get a wee clump of pissed up sheep fans on their first trip trying something like that but they would be told to shut the fuck up pretty quick.