GersInCanada 7,775 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 The more I think about it I just can't see C1872 attracting enough new members to raise the required cash. Too much dislike or distrust of them around. The idea of allowing people to contribute to the pot in return for shares is a more appealing one. Keep King's shares in the family so to speak. By all means make it part of any such deal that C1872 retain voting and proxy rights and have the right of first refusal should the buyer choose to sell. People will be much happier to part with their cash if they are getting something in return. Make it say a £500 minimum purchase. Combining the 2 routes of increased membership and one off contributions for shares is a more workable solution and increases the chances of hitting 13 million. One Jock Wallace, RowX, blaudrup and 1 other 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,595 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Still mulling all this over tbh.On the face it seems a very generous , credible and commendable gesture by King. I'm surprised though as he said in Spring he'd no intention of selling. He's looking for £13.5m with shares valued at 20p so if his 50p share value is correct he's writing off £20m profit (some said such figures couldn't be achieved) which is incredible. Would like to see some more clarity from C1872 and in relation to the price of shares to be taken up by them after Dec 2021. If I were to be puting money into shares I prefer a model where shares are my own, where I could proxy vote if need be but also pass on shares to kids etc. I think more will come out and I don't anticipate smooth sailing largely due to C1872. But if it all strengthens our safety net measures in the Boardroom, doesnt weaken our level of playing squad, then good on King for proving me wrong and him being a good cunt not a cunt. Siam69 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Collider 30,765 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I’d like to hear from the current backers of the team on this before saying too much. We are on the upsurge. This needs to be right for our club and the fans. Bears r us 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howsitgoing 4,281 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Dave King didn’t come into this to make money and he also wouldn’t allow this to go ahead if it reversed all the hard work him and others did to allow our club to reach the great place it is now at. I’m at the mind to trust his judgement that this is the best course of action for our club. Real Ranger 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Butler 23,019 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, GersInCanada said: The more I think about it I just can't see C1872 attracting enough new members to raise the required cash. Too much dislike or distrust of them around. The idea of allowing people to contribute to the pot in return for shares is a more appealing one. Keep King's shares in the family so to speak. By all means make it part of any such deal that C1872 retain voting and proxy rights and have the right of first refusal should the buyer choose to sell. People will be much happier to part with their cash if they are getting something in return. Make it say a £500 minimum purchase. Combining the 2 routes of increased membership and one off contributions for shares is a more workable solution and increases the chances of hitting 13 million. I said as much in earlier posts, but now I think about it you would risk causing major upset to the people who have been investing for years and have no shares to show for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemac 4,997 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I have absolutely no clue in terms of club finances, but if club 1872 can raise the required cash to hold a 25% stake in the club, could they not attract an investor who would otherwise have invested in the club outside of club1872? I'm sure there are plenty of wealthy rangers fans or just wealthy businessmen in general that would like a piece of the pie, theyd get less of a say as they would be at the hands of club 1872 but their investment would be significantly less with cheaper overall share prices Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,479 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 hours ago, LookingForEric said: Great discussion and Hadron Collider is right about business acumen - in all areas. I think more clarification is required before fans can make a balanced decision. Apart from the Dave King announcement have Club 1872 come out on their own to address the issue and make it clear what their plans and methodology is for securing the funds or are they relying on folk going to their website. Equally, it would be good to hear from the Rangers Directors regarding this suggestion, do they support it as King says and are they willing to give C1872 a place on the Board. C1872 is I believe a supporters trust who have 7000 members each having an equal vote in the business of C1872. Those members elect their Representative Board who then conduct business on behalf of those members, in accordance with their own rules. Presently they don't have a seat on the Football Club Board but could if they secure the King shares and agreement of the main Board and shareholders. I'm not 100% certain but think the King offer is a three year project. In year 1, shares can be bought for 20p, Year 2 23p and Year 3 26p. Hence why, C1872 are keen to get as much Legacy Donations done in Year 1 with the discount available. To have a large shareholding improves the supporters chance of a place on the main Board and a voice in the future running of the club. Worth noting that even with 25% holding the other 75% could out vote C1872 if it was warranted. Hence why some kind of comment from the football club would ge welcome. Whilst it would be a nice thing to have your £500 or £1000 individual investment in Rangers, your voice as a shareholder would be almost non existent in influential terms. That's why the C1872 exists and why has the support of King. He could if he wanted just sell the the highest bidder. Never Again. Thats my interpretation of it. Think we could all benefit from Football Club and C1872 statements, although the Rangers may have their hands tied legally as far as investment information is concerned You do realise that by buying into c1872 your individual voice as a shareholder is gone and even worse, your money essentially could be used to vote for things you don't agree with What doesn't sit right with me is that c1872 has what, 5% right now, say they got their 20k people and bought kings shares, thats them up to 25% Now every big decision their vote is required for should be put to their members to decide on, like agm stuff etc 10001 people vote yes, 9999 people vote no, majority wins c1872 go with yes and vote yes, that gives the outlook that 25% of the shares voted yes, which could easily swing a vote Whereas is every member was a shareholder outright, and say 12% of they member shares voted no, while the other 13% voted yes, then it could swing the vote the other way blaudrup, bornabear, jamess and 1 other 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EatDolphins 5,355 Posted December 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2020 Lads I'd advise we all keep our powder dry on this just now until the celtic support forensically examine it for us. JCDBigBear, Master_Betty, BLUEDIGNITY and 2 others 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Collider 30,765 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I’m sure there are fans nervous about this, but we need more info. A plan from C1872 needs to be put out there before any sane Rangers fan thinks about where their money goes. HG5 and RowX 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,595 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hadron Collider said: I’m sure there are fans nervous about this, but we need more info. A plan from C1872 needs to be put out there before any sane Rangers fan thinks about where their money goes. Seems like they're pushing on without any such plan and folk are already puting in. VanVeenRangers and HG5 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskbankloyal 19,446 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said: You do realise that by buying into c1872 your individual voice as a shareholder is gone and even worse, your money essentially could be used to vote for things you don't agree with What doesn't sit right with me is that c1872 has what, 5% right now, say they got their 20k people and bought kings shares, thats them up to 25% Now every big decision their vote is required for should be put to their members to decide on, like agm stuff etc 10001 people vote yes, 9999 people vote no, majority wins c1872 go with yes and vote yes, that gives the outlook that 25% of the shares voted yes, which could easily swing a vote Whereas is every member was a shareholder outright, and say 12% of they member shares voted no, while the other 13% voted yes, then it could swing the vote the other way It’a a fair point and it’s why Club 1872 isn’t for everyone. And nobody can tell any individual how they should spend their own money. Of course, the flip side of the argument is that as an individual shareholder you’ll like own less than 0.0001% whereas you could be part of a smaller collective that owns 25%. You can also stand for the board of that company if you were so minded or have direct communication with that board. You’d never be able to get communication with the Rangers board. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bears r us 30,769 Posted December 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Smile said: It would be a tough ask even for a organisation that was well ran and the supporters trusted it. This is my main problem with C1872. I must admit I have no idea who is running it now, but was it not just a few weeks ago that they had someone resign because they had a difference of opinion, about what I know not. If it was led by someone like @D'Artagnan who I have also never met, but read his posts for many years and would trust him, and a few more like him. To raise £13M in the next 3 years it is going to take a huge deal of trust and that is a big problem with them at the moment I think. My last thought is I would consider buying shares for myself if available at that price and many other fans were doing the same, but not sure about doing it through C1872, no doubt I am in the minority with that view and that is fine if many thousands join up and it works. SeparateEntityMyArse, Smile, HG5 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast 9,179 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 So.... Chris Graham? Bears r us 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneva_ger 9,317 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Laura sounds reasonable but it would be good to hear from D'Art as I believe he was close to 1872 previously was he not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, geneva_ger said: Laura sounds reasonable but it would be good to hear from D'Art as I believe he was close to 1872 previously was he not? She came across very well. geneva_ger 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKirk 25,595 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just signed up. Really hope they can pull this off I've always been a fan of fan ownership Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
docspiderman 1,219 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Still believe fan ownership in Scotland is for amateur, junior or real diddy teams jealous of the power of big teams who compete to win trophies. jamess, Bears r us and Brian Fantana 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneva_ger 9,317 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Imagine if it was total normal fan ownership (like you, me or the guys on here) and it was poorly managed, where would the extra investment come from? I would expect we still need some very rich Rangers guys to have 49% ownership tbh. For the C1872 buy-up to be succesfull I would imagine some big hitters will take on some of the uptake but they will want share votes and not leave it in the hands of 1872. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottywellhousetb 50,431 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Listening to the call tonight from 1872 on ssb was absolutely uninspiring to me, I'm not pro or anti 1872 but I've honestly no confidence whatsoever that this is the way forward. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brian Fantana 28,894 Posted December 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just my opinion but fan ownership could leave us in the shit big time. If the other shareholders don’t put money in, where’s it coming from? Certainly not getting £10 - £15 million in loans from c1872. Bears r us, The Beast, AlbertzLoyalRSC and 2 others 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Collider 30,765 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said: Just my opinion but fan ownership could leave us in the shit big time. If the other shareholders don’t put money in, where’s it coming from? Certainly not getting £10 - £15 million in loans from c1872. Correct! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fantana 28,894 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Hadron Collider said: Correct! Back to the old days of Craig Whyte selling off the lot to keep us going. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LochendBilly 8,410 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Read the bumph on Club1872 website, a wee certificate and no control over any shares for my money? No thanks from me plus I have zero confidence in Club1872. WATP-FOREVER, AlbertzLoyalRSC, Bears r us and 1 other 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said: Just my opinion but fan ownership could leave us in the shit big time. If the other shareholders don’t put money in, where’s it coming from? Certainly not getting £10 - £15 million in loans from c1872. Would work like a socialist movement - the rich provide the proceeds and the poor get cut in with the returns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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