Club 1872 Statement

[esquire8 42,348]

Seems on paper like a good idea but has many variables that can see it going south very, very quickly. It's good the supporters group has a shareholding in the club but a majority shareholding? If our club had been self sustaining for a few years then fine but right now? Difficult to see it being successful.

[BlueAvenger 10,206]

Like many I'm very concerned that King is selling his shares and future funding 

[Sweetheart 8,458]

6 minutes ago, BlueAvenger said:

Like many I'm very concerned that King is selling his shares and future funding 

Why? 

The majority of fans have trusted him so far, he said he would sell them the shares at the right time for what he paid, so he's kept his end of the bargain. The fans now have to raise the cash to buy them and then sustain them like any other shareholder would. If they don't then they sell to somebody that can, he's giving fans a chance to have some responsibilty for the club.

[.Williamson. 82,006]

Just now, Sweetheart said:

Why? 

The majority of fans have trusted him so far, he said he would sell them the share at the right time for what he paid, so he's kept his end of the bargain. The fans now have to raise the cash to buy them and then sustain them like any other shareholder would. If they don't then they sell to somebody that can, he's giving fans a chance to have some responsibilty for the club.

I have to say I would be pretty concerned if our majority shareholder was a group that asked for handouts over the period of 3 years just to buy the majority shares.

Where does the money come from after that point? Do we all just keep wiring money into the group while also paying for ST’s etc?

[folkestoneger 8,084]

16 hours ago, STEPPS BOY said:

We’re in the middle of a global pandemic with no end in sight.

Trying to get 20,000 fans to stump up money to buy out a multi Millionaire will be a hard sell.

let’s be honest here, there is not a single chance of this happening.

If if doesn’t happen we will get the board we deserve.

Fans of clubs far far smaller than ours have raised millions for their clubs 

[Sweetheart 8,458]

13 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

I have to say I would be pretty concerned if our majority shareholder was a group that asked for handouts over the period of 3 years just to buy the majority shares.

Where does the money come from after that point? Do we all just keep wiring money into the group while also paying for ST’s etc?

There's a risk but it's up to fans how they deal with it. If they can't sustain it then they will have to sell the shareholding to a investor they trust. Money from the shareholding can go back into the club in other ways. The thing is fans are being offered a chance, something other clubs fans only dream of. 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

51 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Breaking even due to a 24mill sale, that includes euro revenue, so they required 2 extra, not guaranteed incomes to break even

Id say thats fucking brutal, thats murray type brutal

It’s their model, and they do it very well. 

It will be, and has to be, our model as well. 

There is no feasible way to break-even as a club of our size with revenue streams the way they are donestically, unless you want to pay double for your ST. 

We sold out every game last season, including 9 European games & our ticketing income was £32m. Our wage bill alone is £34m, we have other cash operating expenses of £22m. That’s before we sign a single player. 

How do you propose we fill that gap? We either do it through CL football or effective player trading, or we half the wage bill. 

 

[folkestoneger 8,084]

16 hours ago, Fragglerock said:

Only issue I can see is how we allow the board to make decisions without having to run it by the supporters club who in effect will have to have a vote among its own members before a decision could be made, it could slow decision making down and affect the momentum. 

With online voting it shouldn’t slow it down that much 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

11 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

I have to say I would be pretty concerned if our majority shareholder was a group that asked for handouts over the period of 3 years just to buy the majority shares.

Where does the money come from after that point? Do we all just keep wiring money into the group while also paying for ST’s etc?

We’re in a fairly unique situation where we have investors putting in money at the moment to rebuild the club. Once normalised, shareholders should not be required to put a penny in. The last money put into Celtic was in 2001. 

[esquire8 42,348]

6 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

We’re in a fairly unique situation where we have investors putting in money at the moment to rebuild the club. Once normalised, shareholders should not be required to put a penny in. The last money put into Celtic was in 2001. 

Desmond has never put a penny in since 2001? 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,495]

8 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

It’s their model, and they do it very well. 

It will be, and has to be, our model as well. 

There is no feasible way to break-even as a club of our size with revenue streams the way they are donestically, unless you want to pay double for your ST. 

We sold out every game last season, including 9 European games & our ticketing income was £32m. Our wage bill alone is £34m, we have other cash operating expenses of £22m. That’s before we sign a single player. 

How do you propose we fill that gap? We either do it through CL football or effective player trading, or we half the wage bill. 

 

They dont do it very well, over the last what, 8 years they have raked in 100mill in player sales, had numerous CL and europa group stage campaigns, yet one bad income year sees them needing to up their bank overdraft and still sell players just to pay costs

Regarding us doing it, what happens if we have a bad year, can c1872 be relied on to chip in and help cover shortfall? Not a chance and likely never, 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

2 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

They dont do it very well, over the last what, 8 years they have raked in 100mill in player sales, had numerous CL and europa group stage campaigns, yet one bad income year sees them needing to up their bank overdraft and still sell players just to pay costs

Regarding us doing it, what happens if we have a bad year, can c1872 be relied on to chip in and help cover shortfall? Not a chance and likely never, 

They extended their RCF to mitigate against any unforeseen Covid impacts, it remains unused & I’d be surprised if they need to use it. If I was in their shoes I’d have done the same thing. The advice given to all businesses in March was to extend/draw down any debt facilities they could.

They opted not to sell somebody this year going ‘all in’ on the league but will recover this summer when numerous players leave. They’ve got a big squad restructure on their hands. 

If we reach a point where we need shareholders to cover shortfalls in the future, then we’ve got much bigger problems on our hands than Club 1872 owning 25% of the club. 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

9 minutes ago, esquire8 said:

Desmond has never put a penny in since 2001? 

Taken £4.5m out in preference share dividends in that time as well. 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

10 minutes ago, esquire8 said:

Desmond has never put a penny in since 2001? 

Was 2005, not 2001

[blaudrup 5,299]

44 minutes ago, esquire8 said:

Seems on paper like a good idea but has many variables that can see it going south very, very quickly. It's good the supporters group has a shareholding in the club but a majority shareholding? If our club had been self sustaining for a few years then fine but right now? Difficult to see it being successful.

Just to clarify, it wouldn't be a majority, but it would be the single biggest shareholder with 25%.

That is....if it raises the funds. 

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

15 hours ago, Malkytfp1 said:

I don't know the least bit about what all this means but that statement sums up exactly what I think.

I may be naive and not so financially knowledgeable (and I have recently just completed a financial degree 🤣) but I wonder how would a fan lead ownership have coped in our current financial situation where, in my opinion, heroic board members have really stepped up to the plate. 

Good point - and on another point, all the work, time and effort that our wealthy investors have put into the club over the years has been for free, as they have alternative income - a fan led board would not provide services for free - and this would be another source of frustration when claims or expenses is claimed........ (eg snp).

Just canny see it working............. And not many people have a good word to say for C1872.

DK should put his shares on the open markets for RFC supporters or investors at the correct market value (0.50p he said) to purchase.

And if he is only wanting to receive his actual costs of 0.20p then he can pay a dividend to RFC of 0.30p/share.

Win win for everyone................

[folkestoneger 8,084]

11 minutes ago, blaudrup said:

Just to clarify, it wouldn't be a majority, but it would be the single biggest shareholder with 25%.

That is....if it raises the funds. 

Hearts fans supposedly raised 11m for the club. Surely with our fanbase we can better that to enable fans to be represented on at board level

[KeyserSoze 14,521]

57 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

I have to say I would be pretty concerned if our majority shareholder was a group that asked for handouts over the period of 3 years just to buy the majority shares.

Where does the money come from after that point? Do we all just keep wiring money into the group while also paying for ST’s etc?

Let’s hope there are folk involved that can attract the kind of investment we need going forward, as investors may shy away from “fan” based holdings.  
 

I know I would 

[Mesmer 27]

13.3 mill smackeroonies. That's an awful lot of dosh to find. Yeah, can't see that happening.

[Smile 26,600]

1 hour ago, BlueAvenger said:

Like many I'm very concerned that King is selling his shares and future funding 

If Club1872  raise the money King just gets a payday and no money goes to the club.

[esquire8 42,348]

43 minutes ago, blaudrup said:

Just to clarify, it wouldn't be a majority, but it would be the single biggest shareholder with 25%.

That is....if it raises the funds. 

You know what I mean though. I hope it would work out but I have my doubts.

[folkestoneger 8,084]

6 minutes ago, Smile said:

If Club1872  raise the money King just gets a payday and no money goes to the club.

And if he sells to someone else what would that raise for the club?

[esquire8 42,348]

49 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

Taken £4.5m out in preference share dividends in that time as well. 

So he's only taking money out the club and not put a penny into it?

49 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

Was 2005, not 2001

Since 2005 then.

[esquire8 42,348]

8 minutes ago, Smile said:

If Club1872  raise the money King just gets a payday and no money goes to the club.

Like King has done the past few years service out of the kindness of his heart? Only right he gets some of the money back he put into getting the club where it is right now. Would've rather went to another potential investor than the fan group but it is what it is.

[Smile 26,600]

8 minutes ago, folkestoneger said:

And if he sells to someone else what would that raise for the club?

You know the answer to that so why ask.