Club1872 & New RFC Share Issue

[Ace 3,556]

59 minutes ago, southcoastbear said:

I thought they were buying DK's block of shares, does make me wonder if this £2.5M was funding raised under that premise?

When it was announced about DK and his shares, there was quite a reaction from the support wondering why C1872 weren't giving to the club first, so there seems to have been a discussion between the org & the board where this announcement has been made.

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

6 hours ago, Ace said:

Outside of buying merchandise sold by Castore (who will take a portion) or other goods/products that are sold directly by the club i.e. match programs then there is no other meaningful way of helping the club ... if you are able.

If you subscribe to C1872 you will, indirectly be a part owner of the club but, most importantly, you will be giving cash directly to the club (remember everyone complained about that!!).

C1872 isn't about owning the club outright, its about 25% + 1 share which gives THE FANS the power to prevent another CW or Sports Direct (Mike Ashley) happening again.

There is a vocal minority on here that don't like C1872 for reason fair & foul, there has been some stumbles along the way, some pretty big ones i might add which I've complain about too however I've met with the current board many times and they are nothing but passionate for our club and their efforts to make this endeavor a success is commendable, even in light of the constant friendly fire aimed at them personally.

I think the worry from some could be that after this money's put in, then what happens if we need more? If c1872 can't get this money together at the outset, how will they get any if needed In future? We have survived off loans from share holders, c1872 can't provide that facility.

 

What's c1872's long term investment plan?

[southcoastbear 1,639]

1 hour ago, Ace said:

When it was announced about DK and his shares, there was quite a reaction from the support wondering why C1872 weren't giving to the club first, so there seems to have been a discussion between the org & the board where this announcement has been made.

So decided between the leadership of 1872 and the club board, membership of 1872 no consulted then?

Just trying to understand 1872 which is hard when ye get next to no info 

[JCDBigBear 10,824]

If C1872 require tens of thousands to sign up just to raise £2.5m then there is not a snow ball's chance of them raising the £13m or so they need to buy Dave King's shares.    If you consider an annual donation of £120 (£10 per month) then they need 20,000 members.    That just isn't going to happen.

If 16 million shares is 5% then the existing share issue is in the region of 320 million shares.   Current shareholding of the Rangers board and major investor (King, Park, Letham, Taylor, Gibson, Wolhardt, Bennett, Scott and C1872) is approx 250 million.   That leaves approx 70 million or 22% in the hands of other investors, many of whom will be individual fans such as myself and my family.   There will be times when such fans would be happy to give C1872 a mandate on particular issues but the problem is that there is no easy way to find out who they are and how to get in touch.   I think many would wish to retain ultimate ownership of shares to pass on to family.

[LookingForEric 133]

Thought about a lengthy reply here but decided no. Why is it the only time you hear from C1872 is when they want cash - in a hurry!

It seems to me that the big issue for C1872 is a basic lack of trust in their leadership, management and general communication. What really is their recruitment strategy? How do they engage with their members and the wider Global Rangers community.

Without doubt their target audience is massive but its just not good enough to sit back and wait for folk to walk through the door waving the wonga. It ain't going to work, they need to sell themselves, explain the aims and benefits of membership and involve people and gain their trust. 

Not sure how well the Dave King legacy deal went down but if not great, then lessons need to be learned.

[KeyserSoze 14,531]

13 hours ago, The Beast said:

Their is next to no transparency with Club 1872.

For example is Chris Graham still involved and if so in what capacity. Is / was he paid by the club or directly by Dave King?

There's plenty more unanswerd questions that Club 1872 will not address.

How anyone could trust them with their money is baffling.

You are doing really well @Ace at answering everyone’s posts (by proxy of course)  But you seem to have skipped this one. 
 

which for many is a big enough question to stop them from purchasing. 

[southcoastbear 1,639]

Is @Ace  having his smoked kippers ?

 

[docspiderman 1,225]

14 hours ago, Ace said:

They have done pods & interviews in the past month or so that covered a lot of the questions & answers.

I would say that you can't expect them to reach out to each fan, if you don't raise your issue then they can't answer your question.

Questions are answered now? Times have changed!

[Ace 3,556]

12 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

You are doing really well @Ace at answering everyone’s posts (by proxy of course)  But you seem to have skipped this one. 
 

which for many is a big enough question to stop them from purchasing. 

I can't answer to what I don't know.

I've been in the office & Chris has been there, I've been in when he wasn't.

Personally I think Chris is often used as a squirrel & a cudgel to try and beat c1872 over the head with.

Currently, the club has said, we would like the fans to contribute £2.5m & for that you get lots of shares in the club & for me that's what's important.

[The Beast 9,211]

20 minutes ago, Ace said:

I can't answer to what I don't know.

I've been in the office & Chris has been there, I've been in when he wasn't.

Personally I think Chris is often used as a squirrel & a cudgel to try and beat c1872 over the head with.

Currently, the club has said, we would like the fans to contribute £2.5m & for that you get lots of shares in the club & for me that's what's important.

Surely the involvement of such a hugely divisive person in Club 1872 is extremely pertinent in deciding whether or not to invest?

I don't know what Club 1872 has to hide regarding Mr Graham. Why can't they be transparent about this matter?

[Ace 3,556]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Surely the involvement of such a hugely divisive person in Club 1872 is extremely pertinent in deciding whether or not to invest?

I don't know what Club 1872 has to hide regarding Mr Graham. Why can't they be transparent about this matter?

He's only divisive if you view him as such & I just don't see that, outside of a few posters here that he is.

If it's answers you seek, I'd like to think c1872 will provide them, however I'm just not sure that whatever they say, it would satisfy you or you'd even believe it 

[The Beast 9,211]

13 minutes ago, Ace said:

He's only divisive if you view him as such & I just don't see that, outside of a few posters here that he is.

If it's answers you seek, I'd like to think c1872 will provide them, however I'm just not sure that whatever they say, it would satisfy you or you'd even believe it 

That's pretty much the textbook definition of being divisive.

If all is above board regards Chris Graham why can't his position be clarified including what exactly he does for Club 1872 and is he paid for doing it (and by who). Club 1872 have said via multiple channels that the office holders and directors are all unpaid volunteers. So where exactly does Chris Graham fit in?

Club 1872 are asking fans like me for investment, why would anyone invest in an organisation that has such difficulty in being open and transparent.

I ask again, what do they have to hide regarding Chris Graham?

[Ace 3,556]

10 hours ago, The Beast said:

That's pretty much the textbook definition of being divisive.

If all is above board regards Chris Graham why can't his position be clarified including what exactly he does for Club 1872 and is he paid for doing it (and by who). Club 1872 have said via multiple channels that the office holders and directors are all unpaid volunteers. So where exactly does Chris Graham fit in?

Club 1872 are asking fans like me for investment, why would anyone invest in an organisation that has such difficulty in being open and transparent.

I ask again, what do they have to hide regarding Chris Graham?

Why is it of such interest though, wheres the controversy?

And, again, would you take whatever they say at face value or would you hear it via the prism of distrust that you already have for the org? You ask them to be open but, personally, I don't believe you are being open minded here.

[The Beast 9,211]

6 minutes ago, Ace said:

Why is it of such interest though, wheres the controversy?

And, again, would you take whatever they say at face value or would you hear it via the prism of distrust that you already have for the org? You ask them to be open but, personally, I don't believe you are being open minded here.

Why is asking a simple question met with such defensiveness?

I don't know if I would or wouldn't believe them since the whole thing is shrouded in mystery. It would depend what they said and how believable they were. It's not an issue though as they are saying nothing.

You seem to be fairly ITK and relatively well connected with Club 1872 but even you don't know if this character is involved and if involved in what capacity and paid for by who (in this volunteer run organisation).

Does that not seem odd to you?

[southcoastbear 1,639]

Looking like standard for 1872 , never prepared to answer any questions nor display any decent level of transparency, just the ever open hand.

Sad.

[Ace 3,556]

9 hours ago, The Beast said:

Why is asking a simple question met with such defensiveness?

I don't know if I would or wouldn't believe them since the whole thing is shrouded in mystery. It would depend what they said and how believable they were. It's not an issue though as they are saying nothing.

You seem to be fairly ITK and relatively well connected with Club 1872 but even you don't know if this character is involved and if involved in what capacity and paid for by who (in this volunteer run organisation).

Does that not seem odd to you?

I'm certainly not ITK & not 'connected' either, I've been in the offices a number of times & I've attended the Q&As (which didn't happen enough, pre-covid) etc.

I do believe in the org & certainly believe in the people at its head as I've judged by actions that I've seen & experienced.

I'll repeat regards Chris, I don't see it as an issue & therefore don't bother with his involvement or not.

 

[Ace 3,556]

2 hours ago, southcoastbear said:

Looking like standard for 1872 , never prepared to answer any questions nor display any decent level of transparency, just the ever open hand.

Sad.

Except for all the Q&A stuff they've done recently 🤷‍♂️.

[The Beast 9,211]

15 minutes ago, Ace said:

I'm certainly not ITK & not 'connected' either, I've been in the offices a number of times & I've attended the Q&As (which didn't happen enough, pre-covid) etc.

I do believe in the org & certainly believe in the people at its head as I've judged by actions that I've seen & experienced.

I'll repeat regards Chris, I don't see it as an issue & therefore don't bother with his involvement or not.

 

I suspect the fact you have been involved in Q&A's and in to the offices a "number of times" - presumably speaking to the people running the organisation face to face, means you are more connected than the vast majority of the membership.

However that aside; Club 1872 have come out via all kinds of social and mainstream media and direct comms asking for investment, in particular from new investors. So that being said it doesn't matter if you don't think it's an issue as you are already a convert so to speak.

Surely it's the non-converted that they need to entice. If they can't be open and honest about this man and what his role is and if he's paid to do that role (and by who) then they are doing a piss poor job of making themselves seem a transparent and trustworthy organisation worthy of investment.

Mr Graham's name doesn't appear in any website or other publically released material as being involved which is itself strange given that on your visits he was present for some of them. Why is he there and what is he doing? Is this his job? Does he get paid from Club 1872 funds ie the money that members donate or does he get paid by some third party.

If it's the former would people be happy knowing that some portion of their subscription goes to pay Mr Graham's wages? If it's the latter who does pay for his time and what do they get in return for that - what influence do they excert over the organisation?

If you can't see that the above questions should be clarified before they come calling with their hands out for more money then you truly cannot see the wood for the trees.

[jamess 3,422]

When it started I thought It was a great idea and signed up to £18.72 per month at the start. I thought it would be money into the club. After about a year wondered what my money was doing. Didn't see it into the club so stopped. I am willing to put money into the club, and do it every year via 2 season tickets, but funding an organisation that possibly  we have no need for since the board is established and rid of chancers seems pointless.  Use the money for the club and not to buy influence.