COVID Breach

[Malkytfp1 18,594]

3 minutes ago, esquire8 said:

 

Maybe being picky (cause I hate the cunt) but Zungu just seems so disingenuous. Patterson makes his a bit personal talking about being a fan from birth and Bassey actually says the words "I'm sorry" as opposed to "I'd like to apologize".

Still, thank fuck we caught this before training. Lucky boys who hopefully realise now how lucky they are.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

9 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

Is what it is, thought it was funny TBH. 

They own them but they still have to stand by a form of employment law in terms of how they treat players, you are implying a club could in theory parade a player around the park with a broom up his arse "just because" they "own them" without any form of fallout which they patently can't.

I am talking about colors of strips to show how redundant saying "that's pure pish" is in relation to a point when evidence shows otherwise... 

Its @TamCoopz shitty breeches 

How the fuck am I implying anything of the sort as the bit in bold?

It's abundantly clear football differs from standard employment in that the contracts give clubs more ownership and possession rights than in a standard employee/er relationship. I'm in agreement there are still employment laws to be adhered to. But in decades of football how many cases of clubs being taken to court and losing for wrongful dismissal are there?  And of them how many are wom when the sacking is for gross misconduct? And is there any precedent whatsoever of a player suing and winning because they were rightly sacked but another player later wasn't in similar circumstances? Surely there will be precedents / examples..... 

[Dennis Reynolds 1,329]

Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

How the fuck am I implying anything of the sort as the bit in bold?

It's abundantly clear football differs from standard employment in that the contracts give clubs more ownership and possession rights than in a standard employee/er relationship. I'm in agreement there are still employment laws to be adhered to. But in decades of football how many cases of clubs being taken to court and losing for wrongful dismissal are there?  And of them how many are wom when the sacking is for gross misconduct? And is there any precedent whatsoever of a player suing and winning because they were rightly sacked but another player later wasn't in similar circumstances? Surely there will be precedents / examples..... 

You have just said they own them though aye, so if they own them why the fuck not do that eh, bash on do what the fuck they want. 

Elements differ - parts, dismissal of one for one reason but not another isn't holding up when a player and his lawyer comes back.. talk of previous precedents is a bit redundant in the context of Covid and what is being spoken about here, the reason players aren't sacked often.... to square this all back is because teams tend to try and avoid sacking players as they are typically assets which was the original point made in all of this... 

 

[esquire8 42,465]

2 minutes ago, Malkytfp1 said:

Maybe being picky (cause I hate the cunt) but Zungu just seems so disingenuous. Patterson makes his a bit personal talking about being a fan from birth and Bassey actually says the words "I'm sorry" as opposed to "I'd like to apologize".

Still, thank fuck we caught this before training. Lucky boys who hopefully realise now how lucky they are.

Zungu sounds like he knows he is gone. Patterson and Basseh sound very apologetic and gutted. Will make them or break them at their ages.

[Nameless Ghoul 6,054]

They shouldn't have bothered apologising if that's their effort. Sound like they have a gun to their head fs

[Malkytfp1 18,594]

1 minute ago, esquire8 said:

Zungu sounds like he knows he is gone. Patterson and Basseh sound very apologetic and gutted. Will make them or break them at their ages.

Aye that's what I'm taking from these too. Still think Patterson and Bassey especially if given the chance can learn something from this. They can spit the dummy and sulk or learn and put in twice the effort at the training ground etc. Probably a good kick up the arse for both them.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

You have just said they own them though aye, so if they own them why the fuck not do that eh, bash on do what the fuck they want. 

Elements differ - parts, dismissal of one for one reason but not another isn't holding up when a player and his lawyer comes back.. talk of previous precedents is a bit redundant in the context of Covid and what is being spoken about here, the reason players aren't sacked often.... to square this all back is because teams tend to try and avoid sacking players as they are typically assets which was the original point made in all of this... 

 

I've never remotely implied sticking brushes up arses is OK. But they are as good as owned given they can't just jump ship to a new club the way employees can do with companies in the non football world.

Can you clarify exactly how this would work in terms of employment law. Which legislation, ie wrongful dismissal, constructive dismissal etc. And then direct me to the part which allows claims to be won because of how someone else was subsequently dealt with in similar circumstances. Please don't waffle, a link to the exact part of legislation or a quote from that legislation is fine. Thanks.

[Malkytfp1 18,594]

1 minute ago, Nameless Ghoul said:

They shouldn't have bothered apologising if that's their effort. Sound like they have a gun to their head fs

I can see why people are saying that, and I'm sure some PR guys at the club have at the very least, looked over their statements and made amendments before airing them but in Patterson's case certainly, I think it's nerves. This wee guy woulda been online and read some of the backlash after the incidents. I'm no making excuses for them btw and I wouldn't be against no seeing them in our colours again but I do feel they will have a good degree of remorse.

[BlueEdu 227]

Don’t have any hate for them, people make mistakes, but think they should be gone from the club

[Malkytfp1 18,594]

5 minutes ago, BlueEdu said:

Don’t have any hate for them, people make mistakes, but think they should be gone from the club

That's where I started. Now at the point where they have apologized and whatever the management decide I will stand by.

 

[Dennis Reynolds 1,329]

29 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

I've never remotely implied sticking brushes up arses is OK. But they are as good as owned given they can't just jump ship to a new club the way employees can do with companies in the non football world.

Can you clarify exactly how this would work in terms of employment law. Which legislation, ie wrongful dismissal, constructive dismissal etc. And then direct me to the part which allows claims to be won because of how someone else was subsequently dealt with in similar circumstances. Please don't waffle, a link to the exact part of legislation or a quote from that legislation is fine. Thanks.

But they could though eh, because they own them so apparently can just do what the fuck they want (they can’t) 

Im not sitting reading through legislation fuck sake..the well paid lawyer a player would find would do that. The notion you think wording couldn’t find to work around that precedent is brilliant patter. 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

12 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

But they could though eh, because they own them so apparently can just do what the fuck they want (they can’t) 

Im not sitting reading through legislation fuck sake..the well paid lawyer a player would find would do that. The notion you think wording couldn’t find to work around that precedent is brilliant patter. 

They retain their services ya daftie. You're the only one talking about abusive and illegal conduct towards them 😂

So that's precedents (not just covid related) and legislation I've asked for and you can't/ won't provide either. Really, it's not a valid or compelling  argument AT ALL 😂. 

[Dennis Reynolds 1,329]

7 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

They retain their services ya daftie. You're the only one talking about abusive and illegal conduct towards them 😂

So that's precedents (not just covid related) and legislation I've asked for and you can't/ won't provide either. Really, it's not a valid or compelling  argument AT ALL 😂. 

you did say “clubs own players” true story, it’s legit a few posts back..so you’re implying they can do as they wish (they can’t)
 

I can’t be fucked looking nah, it’s for geeks, got better things to do. 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

19 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

you did say “clubs own players” true story, it’s legit a few posts back..so you’re implying they can do as they wish (they can’t)
 

I can’t be fucked looking nah, it’s for geeks, got better things to do. 

In the context of clubs buying players they do own them. I'd have thought even the most stupid person is aware this relates to football, not getting them washing your motor, home schooling your weans, doing your weekly shop or even sweeping your driveway with a brush up their arse. I was clearly wrong as the most stupid person isn't aware.

You're talking shite. You don't know which employment legislation would cover it, you don't provide it because you can't not because you won't look, and you can't find any relevant precedents. You've not got better to do given you're still debating the point. Unfortunately for you it looks like you're bullshitting more than normal if you don't back up your argument when asked for defining proof. Especially if you can (😂😂😂😂 aye right).

 

[Dickie 12,905]

57 minutes ago, BlueEdu said:

Don’t have any hate for them, people make mistakes, but think they should be gone from the club

If Livingston can give a reformed drug dealer a managers job then surely young guys who fucked up by having a few drinks should be given a second chance. They are facing a triple punishment are they also to have their careers ruined just for being young and stupid?

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,907]

2 hours ago, Valance1690 said:

So basically if you're a decent talent you can break the rules, putting the season at risk and you'll get a small punishment - Few week suspension and pennies on the scale of things for them

If you're a squad player with barely any future you'll get flung under the bus, 7 game bans (by the SFA) & loaned out at the first opportunity

Great example we're setting for the players not to break the rules. Expect another at some point before all these restrictions are lifted

The situation hasn't been resolved yet, they are still awaiting punishment from the league which will come. The club have already strongly disciplined them but kept it in house and they can't be loaned out as the transfer window is shut so they have nowhere else to go but train with the squad. 

They will 100% not be sacked as all 5 of them are an asset to the club in some degree plus we are not in a position to throw monetary assets down the drain. 

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,907]

1 hour ago, Malkytfp1 said:

Aye that's what I'm taking from these too. Still think Patterson and Bassey especially if given the chance can learn something from this. They can spit the dummy and sulk or learn and put in twice the effort at the training ground etc. Probably a good kick up the arse for both them.

Your opinion on this is completely different to the 1 you were giving me it tight for. It's amazing how things can calm down when a week or so passes. 

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,907]

13 minutes ago, Dickie said:

If Livingston can give a reformed drug dealer a managers job then surely young guys who fucked up by having a few drinks should be given a second chance. They are facing a triple punishment are they also to have their careers ruined just for being young and stupid?

Well said👍 I said similar when the news broke and was inundated with folk calling me an idiot. 

[bluenoz 30,832]

There is absolutely no way these players should be sacked. They are all a valuable commodity to the club. Look at Edmundson - scored for Derby last night. If he continues to do well perhaps Rooney makes a bid for him.

Patterson will be Tav's replacement within a couple of years.

Young men make mistakes. I know I did.

[jamess 3,422]

5 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

There is absolutely no way these players should be sacked. They are all a valuable commodity to the club. Look at Edmundson - scored for Derby last night. If he continues to do well perhaps Rooney makes a bid for him.

Patterson will be Tav's replacement within a couple of years.

Young men make mistakes. I know I did.

What is best for the club should come first. And getting rid is probably not.  They do there time and we move on.

[left winger 14,152]

26 minutes ago, Dickie said:

If Livingston can give a reformed drug dealer a managers job then surely young guys who fucked up by having a few drinks should be given a second chance. They are facing a triple punishment are they also to have their careers ruined just for being young and stupid?

Really fucking hard to argue with that.

[Valance1690 3,826]

17 minutes ago, Ross-Gazza genius said:

The situation hasn't been resolved yet, they are still awaiting punishment from the league which will come. The club have probably already disciplined them but kept it in house and they can't be loaned out as the transfer window is shut so they have nowhere else to go but train with the squad. 

They will 100% not be sacked as all 5 of them are an asset to the club in some degree plus we are not in a position to throw monetary assets down the drain. 

I'm all for sacking them however understand from a business standpoint that we can't throw assets away.

Best thing to do would be to let them train alone/together & sell them as soon as the window opens for whatever we can get for them, Zungu obviously would be a terminate.

People are very happy to let this go because it didn't lead to anything however the fact it didn't lead to anything wasn't through the players honesty or anything they done, they got caught! If whoever grassed them had waited 24 hours we'd have been looking at forfeiting a Europa League tie & possibly forfeiting (or at least playing with a weakened squad) against Dundee United.

If they've done it once there's nothing stopping them doing it again, no idea why we'd want them back around the main squad at this point in the season. 

 

[BlueEdu 227]

29 minutes ago, Dickie said:

If Livingston can give a reformed drug dealer a managers job then surely young guys who fucked up by having a few drinks should be given a second chance. They are facing a triple punishment are they also to have their careers ruined just for being young and stupid?

Not comparable really is it? They are our employees at the time of the incident, so we have to deal with it. Also, they already saw what happened to two of their teammates who did the same thing. After they were moved out, they were warned, yet still did it. I just don’t think that’s Rangers quality mate like I said I don’t hate them but don’t want them at our club. Also I feel confident that they can continue their careers somewhere else 

[Dickie 12,905]

1 minute ago, BlueEdu said:

Not comparable really is it? They are our employees at the time of the incident, so we have to deal with it. Also, they already saw what happened to two of their teammates who did the same thing. After they were moved out, they were warned, yet still did it. I just don’t think that’s Rangers quality mate like I said I don’t hate them but don’t want them at our club. Also I feel confident that they can continue their careers somewhere else 

Going elsewhere to continue their careers isn’t comparable either I don’t think.

[Dickie 12,905]

23 minutes ago, Ross-Gazza genius said:

Well said👍 I said similar when the news broke and was inundated with folk calling me an idiot. 

A lot of folk would say agreeing with me doesn’t make you less of an idiot