COVID Breach

[Lord Lockin 2,142]

2 hours ago, bluenoz said:

There is absolutely no way these players should be sacked. They are all a valuable commodity to the club. Look at Edmundson - scored for Derby last night. If he continues to do well perhaps Rooney makes a bid for him.

Patterson will be Tav's replacement within a couple of years.

Young men make mistakes. I know I did.

So at what age do you no longer class them as young men, and do you honestly think they didn't know what they were doing was wrong no matter what age they are 

[bluenoz 16,765]

3 minutes ago, Lord Lockin said:

So at what age do you no longer class them as young men, and do you honestly think they didn't know what they were doing was wrong no matter what age they are 

I actually think there may be a grey area as to whether they knowingly broke protocol. Just my opinion. It has a different feel about it than Edmundson & Jones.

A 19yr old is considered a young man. Probably just left home for the first time and suddenly making a wad of dough. The club will do everything in their power to turn them into fine adults but it's not always that clear cut.

It is time to move on...

In saying that, the SFA will probably punish them two hours before KO tomorrow.

[Valance1690 2,032]

34 minutes ago, Ross-Gazza genius said:

I'm for giving them another chance or to let the manager decide. Everyone makes mistakes and if we took the stand point of "they've done it once what's to stop them doing it again" then everyone that's made a mistake in life would never move forward. 

I'm all for people getting a 2nd chance, the argument earlier was about Martindale and how he deserves a 2nd chance. Aye fair enough I see that point, he made mistakes a long long time ago, done his time & now wants to make a life for himself, that's fair enough.

This was 10 days ago, 5 players took it upon themselves to stick 2 fingers up to the club & do something the entire country is being told not to do. They knew exactly what they were doing & knew the ramifications if they got caught (and if they didn't). They knew them turning up at training on the Monday would've meant we lose probably the entire squad for 10 days & didn't give it a 2nd thought.

Not saying ban them from football, give them the jail and ruin their life's however the idea that they just saunter back into training/the squad after 10 days & a clearly rehearsed apology is bad news. Move them on and let them have a career elsewhere is punishment enough for me, you've fucked your chance here now good luck trying at another club.

[Bad Robot 12,540]

13 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

I actually think there may be a grey area as to whether they knowingly broke protocol. Just my opinion. It has a different feel about it than Edmundson & Jones.

A 19yr old is considered a young man. Probably just left home for the first time and suddenly making a wad of dough. The club will do everything in their power to turn them into fine adults but it's not always that clear cut.

It is time to move on...

In saying that, the SFA will probably punish them two hours before KO tomorrow.

What grey area? The police gave them all on the spot fines for breaching the coronavirus regulations lockdown where more than 2 households shouldn’t be socialising. 

[Hadron Collider 14,000]

14 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

I actually think there may be a grey area as to whether they knowingly broke protocol. Just my opinion. It has a different feel about it than Edmundson & Jones.

A 19yr old is considered a young man. Probably just left home for the first time and suddenly making a wad of dough. The club will do everything in their power to turn them into fine adults but it's not always that clear cut.

It is time to move on...

In saying that, the SFA will probably punish them two hours before KO tomorrow.

At the same time the SFA have fucked it mate. They need to get their own house in order what with the officials that were refereeing outside the country and came back. 

[Bad Robot 12,540]

all need put on loan or sold at the most convenient time for the club and it’s another massive decision for SG to whether he’s a strong disciplinarian or he’s compassionate which could also be contrived as weak, and will be by our media.

[Malkytfp1 5,404]

I will get behind the management teams decision. But I find the "oh they are just young boys" excuse fucking tragic.

[bluenoz 16,765]

1 minute ago, Bad Robot said:

What grey area? The police gave them all on the spot fines for breaching the coronavirus regulations lockdown where more than 2 households shouldn’t be socialising. 

Can you honestly say you know all the covid rules mate? Cos they seem to change a lot. At least I get mixed up sometimes.

Let's just say the other five were their girlfriends for a moment. It wouldn't be outrageous for them to think they were still in a bubble even though we all know they weren't.

The details remain somewhat unclear.

Now if the other five were not their girlfriends then the guilt is unquestionable and if so, why was fringpong never questioned for a similar wrongdoing?

[stu43rigger 290]

1 hour ago, Valance1690 said:

You mean after they got booked/fined off the plod at 10 past 1 in the morning ? lol

Admitting you've been caught is hardly something I'd be commending them for. If they hadn't I seriously doubt he'd have contacted the club to admit it before they went into training on the Monday 

I wasn’t commending them and obviously if they hadn’t been caught they would never have owned up, however the point you made was “the fact it didn’t lead to anything wasn’t down to the players honesty of anything they done”, I don’t believe that’s true, just because they got caught by the police I don’t think they were under any obligation to tell the club and could have turned up as normal on Monday 

[Bad Robot 12,540]

2 minutes ago, Hadron Collider said:

At the same time the SFA have fucked it mate. They need to get their own house in order what with the officials that were refereeing outside the country and came back. 

not defending the sfa but again it’s an individual who has fkd up and it’s him who needs the penalty albeit the sfa should have refused uefa as it was a local Greek match and not a uefa tie. 
The fact that Roome was positive and he never informed madden or Stewart or the sfa he was positive tells me he’s a fkn idiot. I also ask did he not get the phone call from the track and trace and did any of them actually have the track and trace app which should have been pinging for madden and stewart 

[Lord Lockin 2,142]

24 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

I actually think there may be a grey area as to whether they knowingly broke protocol. Just my opinion. It has a different feel about it than Edmundson & Jones.

A 19yr old is considered a young man. Probably just left home for the first time and suddenly making a wad of dough. The club will do everything in their power to turn them into fine adults but it's not always that clear cut.

It is time to move on...

In saying that, the SFA will probably punish them two hours before KO tomorrow.

Five of them in the one apartment, where's the grey area there, and what relevance has " probably just left home for the first time and making wads of money " got to do with it - are you making this some kind of excuse   

[andyhrfc 1,760]

Find it weird how people use young and stupid in the same breath.  I know people who are young and not stupid as well as people who are old and stupid.  

Most young people are not stupid.  What the players displayed was a sense of arrogance that they were somehow above Covid regulations, that they can do whatever they like whilst the vast majority of people their age stay at home, even though they would love to hit the town on a night out.  And they knew that the risk of being caught would far outweigh the loss faced by an average young person who chose to breach the rules. 

[Bad Robot 12,540]

2 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

Can you honestly say you know all the covid rules mate? Cos they seem to change a lot. At least I get mixed up sometimes.

Let's just say the other five were their girlfriends for a moment. It wouldn't be outrageous for them to think they were still in a bubble even though we all know they weren't.

The details remain somewhat unclear.

Now if the other five were not their girlfriends then the guilt is unquestionable and if so, why was fringpong never questioned for a similar wrongdoing?

Yes I can, I know the regulations inside out tbh

Your clouding the issue by saying the details are unclear when the facts are there. Ten on the spot fines for a house party that was broken up. For there to be any doubt the ten would all need to come from the same two households which we both know didn’t happen.

Fk ping pong but there’s only two involved and that’s only 2 households regardless where she’s came from but I don’t know the exact details of this so can’t really answer but maybe there was no quarantine or lockdown in place at that time but i honestly don’t know 

[Dickie 7,470]

11 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

I'm all for people getting a 2nd chance, the argument earlier was about Martindale and how he deserves a 2nd chance. Aye fair enough I see that point, he made mistakes a long long time ago, done his time & now wants to make a life for himself, that's fair enough.

This was 10 days ago, 5 players took it upon themselves to stick 2 fingers up to the club & do something the entire country is being told not to do. They knew exactly what they were doing & knew the ramifications if they got caught (and if they didn't). They knew them turning up at training on the Monday would've meant we lose probably the entire squad for 10 days & didn't give it a 2nd thought.

Not saying ban them from football, give them the jail and ruin their life's however the idea that they just saunter back into training/the squad after 10 days & a clearly rehearsed apology is bad news. Move them on and let them have a career elsewhere is punishment enough for me, you've fucked your chance here now good luck trying at another club.

The 5 players did something almost everyone in their age group and older is doing and met up in someone’s house. They had the Monday off so your wrong about training. Martindale deserves a 2nd chance cause his mistake was ages ago,this doesn’t make sense you either deserve a 2nd chance or not. They ain’t going to saunter back in as if nothing happened far from it. David goodwillie got done twice for assault and once for rape but still had a decent career in football,that’s the kind of cunt I’d chase,not our 5 players nor the sheep’s 6. If our 5 had fucked our season up then getting sacked would have been the least of their worries.

[Bad Robot 12,540]

8 minutes ago, stu43rigger said:

I wasn’t commending them and obviously if they hadn’t been caught they would never have owned up, however the point you made was “the fact it didn’t lead to anything wasn’t down to the players honesty of anything they done”, I don’t believe that’s true, just because they got caught by the police I don’t think they were under any obligation to tell the club and could have turned up as normal on Monday 

Of course there were obliged to tell there employer.  They’ve breached specifically created regulations to deal with a worldwide pandemic. The clubs and other elite sports employers have probably agreed to draw up specific HR policies in order for the govt to give them the go ahead 

[We Will Follow Rangers 10,138]

4 minutes ago, andyhrfc said:

Find it weird how people use young and stupid in the same breath.  I know people who are young and not stupid as well as people who are old and stupid.  

Most young people are not stupid.  What the players displayed was a sense of arrogance that they were somehow above Covid regulations, that they can do whatever they like whilst the vast majority of people their age stay at home, even though they would love to hit the town on a night out.  And they knew that the risk of being caught would far outweigh the loss faced by an average young person who chose to breach the rules. 

Young people  are the only group left in society that its still acceptable to talk shite about without it being an ism

[ForeverAndEver 47,633]

3 minutes ago, Dickie said:

The 5 players did something almost everyone in their age group and older is doing and met up in someone’s house. They had the Monday off so your wrong about training. Martindale deserves a 2nd chance cause his mistake was ages ago,this doesn’t make sense you either deserve a 2nd chance or not. They ain’t going to saunter back in as if nothing happened far from it. David goodwillie got done twice for assault and once for rape but still had a decent career in football,that’s the kind of cunt I’d chase,not our 5 players nor the sheep’s 6. If our 5 had fucked our season up then getting sacked would have been the least of their worries.

That's the risk they took, and thank fuck they got found out before it could've.

 

[bluenoz 16,765]

2 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

Yes I can, I know the regulations inside out tbh

Your clouding the issue by saying the details are unclear when the facts are there. Ten on the spot fines for a house party that was broken up. For there to be any doubt the ten would all need to come from the same two households which we both know didn’t happen.

Fk ping pong but there’s only two involved and that’s only 2 households regardless where she’s came from but I don’t know the exact details of this so can’t really answer but maybe there was no quarantine or lockdown in place at that time but i honestly don’t know 

She came from a different country and should have been in quarantine. He then went to training every day. That case was far worse. At least our players never made it to the training ground thankfully.

We will probably never know who the other five were in the flat.

I really don't know the answer mate, but I do know it is time to move on. It is my opinion that they should not be fired. I know many disagree.

[Dickie 7,470]

4 minutes ago, andyhrfc said:

Find it weird how people use young and stupid in the same breath.  I know people who are young and not stupid as well as people who are old and stupid.  

Most young people are not stupid.  What the players displayed was a sense of arrogance that they were somehow above Covid regulations, that they can do whatever they like whilst the vast majority of people their age stay at home, even though they would love to hit the town on a night out.  And they knew that the risk of being caught would far outweigh the loss faced by an average young person who chose to breach the rules. 

The vast majority of young people stay at home,what planet are you on,just walk about especially in any park and see what’s going on. In my local park there is organised 5/6 a sides with dozens taking part,most young folk I know don’t give COVID a second thought apart from the inconvenience of it.

[A.T.G 10,224]

Chasing our first title in 10 years. Stopping they bastards doing 10. Weeks from completing the journey from Div 3 to the top of Scottish football. They could have joined training and took out 75 per cent of our team for 2 weeks which would have probably have seen us lose points in the league. Probably out of Europe. I accept their apology but would also like to punch them in the face. 

[Ross-Gazza genius 623]

I repeat I never once called them kids or a child. The bit I referenced a child was in reply to you saying your child is 9 and knows not to go behind your back I said bullshit every child makes mistakes. I wasn't meaning the players!! However they(players) are young men and can still make immature decisions. If you want to look for stupid opinions read through your own since you've made such a dramatic u turn! 

1 hour ago, Malkytfp1 said:

You are mistaking forgiveness for pointing out stupid opinions saying "they are just young kids" and "they are too young to make mature decisions". 

 

[Bad Robot 12,540]

7 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

She came from a different country and should have been in quarantine. He then went to training every day. That case was far worse. At least our players never made it to the training ground thankfully.

We will probably never know who the other five were in the flat.

I really don't know the answer mate, but I do know it is time to move on. It is my opinion that they should not be fired. I know many disagree.

I’ll get behind whatever SG does with them but he’s set a precedence and I think they’ll be shipped out at the earliest convenience but that’s not to say they’ll never play for us again. The squad tomorrow will give us an idea on what road SG is going down as who knows CB and NP might be at Ibrox.

[mitre_mouldmaster 12,907]

3 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

They retain their services ya daftie. You're the only one talking about abusive and illegal conduct towards them 😂

So that's precedents (not just covid related) and legislation I've asked for and you can't/ won't provide either. Really, it's not a valid or compelling  argument AT ALL 😂. 

Employees have a right to be treated equally. This is set out in the ACAS Code of practice.

If two employees were found to have both committed the same offence, but one was treated differently than the other, then the one who was treated harshly would be able to raise a grievance and would probably win.

This would likely result in an employee who was on a fixed term contract being paid at least in part for the duration left on their contract.

Westlake v ZSL London Zoo ET/2201118/2015 is an interesting case that shows two employees who got into a fight, the company sacked one whilst keeping the other. The court found that this was wrong from the company. 

For them to be treated differently, the club would need to have documented notes detailing why they were treated differently based on the employees conduct prior to the action. This would include things such as verbal and written warnings on the employee record prior to the incident that took place.

Alternatively if the incidents in question were more or less serious would come into it, but it would not be to the clubs opinion but they would have to convince a judge that they incidents were significantly different.

[stevemac 1,737]

As a side note, If they got a ban from the league, can they still compete in European competition? Genuinely don't know how that ban would work tbh

[mitre_mouldmaster 12,907]

Just now, stevemac said:

As a side note, If they got a ban from the league, can they still compete in European competition? Genuinely don't know how that ban would work tbh

There is absolutely no way the club would do that just for PR reasons alone.

I think they could probably play, but i might be wrong. They wont though.