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Breakaway European Super League


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1 minute ago, tm91 said:

I'd be reluctant to punish the clubs only insomuch as it was their players and fans that were significant in killing this idea. If anyone should know that cunt owners don't define a football club, it's us. It might be worth exploring temporary bans from European football or whatever, but the trick will be to find ways to punish the owners and protect against risk to ensure they never attempt this again. What should happen is a fundamental reorganisation of European competitions and preferably, a continent-wide application of the 50+1 system. 

Totally agree but implementing a 50+1 system at this stage is going to be incredibly difficult. Private ownership of German clubs was actually prohibited until 1998 so, in that respect, allowing commercial investors 49% was actually a concession in their favour (and away from not-for-profit members' organisations). 'Big money' is so deeply ingrained in football here that I can't even begin to the imagine the ferocity of the (legal) response if owners in the UK were faced with mandatorily relinquishing equity in clubs. 

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Making a 400m loss should result in penalties not an invite to a lucrative new league. 

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12 minutes ago, rangersross said:

Totally agree but implementing a 50+1 system at this stage is going to be incredibly difficult. Private ownership of German clubs was actually prohibited until 1998 so, in that respect, allowing commercial investors 49% was actually a concession in their favour (and away from not-for-profit members' organisations). 'Big money' is so deeply ingrained in football here that I can't even begin to the imagine the ferocity of the (legal) response if owners in the UK were faced with mandatorily relinquishing equity in clubs. 

Good point on why it was possible in Germany in the first place. It would be difficult and probably a bit of a shitshow, but in theory the Government could force it with a simple Act of Parliament for UK clubs. Parliament is sovereign, and with Brexit the owners would have no means for appeal.

Of course the likelihood of a Tory Government forcing through what would be effectively comparable to nationalisations of football clubs is err...not particularly high, but if they could be convinced that's one possible avenue.

Otherwise UEFA and Fifa could explore penalties, fines and bans, but that would be far too difficult even if they had the spine for it and it really would be a lawyer's wet dream. 

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Just now, tm91 said:

Good point on why it was possible in Germany in the first place. It would be difficult and probably a bit of a shitshow, but in theory the Government could force it with a simple Act of Parliament. Parliament is sovereign, and with Brexit the owners would have no means for appeal.

Of course the likelihood of a Tory Government forcing through what would be effectively nationalisations of football clubs is err...not particularly high, but if they could be convinced that's one possible avenue.

Otherwise UEFA and Fifa could explore penalties, fines and bans, but that would be far too difficult even if they had the spine for it.

Absolutely, mate. Would love to see it happen but 'the super-wealthy can't be trusted to administer important social institutions' isn't exactly a popular Tory hymn. I'm surprised several of their ministers have gone as far as they have but I doubt it's anything more than rhetoric to score a few populist points. 

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33 minutes ago, tm91 said:

I'd be reluctant to punish the clubs only insomuch as it was their players and fans that were significant in killing this idea. If anyone should know that cunt owners don't define a football club, it's us. It might be worth exploring temporary bans from European football or whatever, but the trick will be to find ways to punish the owners and protect against risk to ensure they never attempt this again. What should happen is a fundamental reorganisation of European competitions and preferably, a continent-wide application of the 50+1 system. 

Fuck them.

Deserve everything that comes their way

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20 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Fuck them.

Deserve everything that comes their way

This exact post would have been on messageboards of other teams in 2012 when it came to us, and we suffered as a fanbase because that sentiment wasn't ignored. 

Punish the owners, not the fans.

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1 minute ago, tm91 said:

This exact post would have been on messageboards of other teams in 2012 when it came to us. 

Punish the owners, not the fans.

I couldn’t care tbh.

Leeds fans didn’t deserve punished.

Wigan fans didn’t deserve punished.

Birmingham fans didn’t deserve punished when they were deducted points.

Portsmouth fans didn’t deserve punished.

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26 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

I couldn’t care tbh.

Leeds fans didn’t deserve punished.

Wigan fans didn’t deserve punished.

Birmingham fans didn’t deserve punished when they were deducted points.

Portsmouth fans didn’t deserve punished.

We didn't deserve to be punished either 

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36 minutes ago, tm91 said:

This exact post would have been on messageboards of other teams in 2012 when it came to us, and we suffered as a fanbase because that sentiment wasn't ignored. 

Punish the owners, not the fans.

Different circumstances entirely.

David Murray made increasingly poor commercial decisions although made with good intentions: apparent Tax dodging remains a grey area even to this day.

As for Whyte and the ones that followed, they were just chancers.

Whereas the ‘big 12’ , who already command the lion’s share of the money, made a conscious and premeditated move to stick two fingers up at fellow association member clubs knowing full well the detriment their plan would cause to football throughout Europe.

They deserve fuck all sympathy, and everything they get thrown at them. They are ENTIRELY responsible for the harm they may well have done their club and their fans.

They weren’t trying to find ways to survive.

It was a conscious power grab in order to keep all the money to themselves.

 

 

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1 minute ago, beararse said:

Different circumstances entirely.

David Murray made increasingly poor commercial decisions although made with good intentions: apparent Tax dodging remains a grey area even to this day.

As for Whyte and the ones that followed, they were just chancers.

Whereas the ‘big 12’ , who already command the lion’s share of the money, made a conscious and premeditated move to stick two fingers up at fellow association member clubs knowing full well the detriment their plan would cause to football throughout Europe.

They deserve fuck all sympathy, and everything they get thrown at them. They are ENTIRELY responsible for the harm they may well have done their club and their fans.

They weren’t trying to find ways to survive.

It was a conscious power grab in order to keep all the money to themselves.

 

 

Not looked into it enough but did they actually break any rules?

Morally unjust to be chasing more money at this time 

Ridiculous not to even involve their fans/players/manager in the talks 

Crazy to think the authorities would sit back and let it happen

But breaking any rules? I don't think any of them actually have. Otherwise Uefa/Fifa etc wouldn't be looking at ways to stop it by booting them out of Europe and stuff. They'd just say you've broken Article 3 section C which allows us to fine you x Amount & you can't go ahead with it. 

The fans never deserve it when clubs get punished as they have very little control but in most cases, the club has broken a specific rule, hence the punishment. 

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It is very difficult to punish a club or an owner without punishing the fans?

Whether its by fines or points deductions they, because of the associated reduction in finance/prize money made, still ultimately punishes the fan by the club not having its full spending power to buy the best player/improve the team. 

 

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1 minute ago, Valance1690 said:

Not looked into it enough but did they actually break any rules?

Morally unjust to be chasing more money at this time 

Ridiculous not to even involve their fans/players/manager in the talks 

Crazy to think the authorities would sit back and let it happen

But breaking any rules? I don't think any of them actually have. Otherwise Uefa/Fifa etc wouldn't be looking at ways to stop it by booting them out of Europe and stuff. They'd just say you've broken Article 3 section C which allows us to fine you x Amount & you can't go ahead with it. 

The fans never deserve it when clubs get punished as they have very little control but in most cases, the club has broken a specific rule, hence the punishment. 

Perhaps not, however I would imagine, like every association, there will be a code of conduct ensuring fair treatment of other association members. This move clearly breached that.

I happen to believe the clubs should get hammered.

That should be points and/or financial penalties but not relegation.

Had we been deducted points and served a financial penalty, rather than forced to the bottom tier then I reckon must Rangers fans would have shrugged and thought ‘ok, fair enough, we kinda deserved that’.

Rangers punishment was disproportionate.

Deducting points and fining these clubs isn’t IMO.

In fact, I’d go as far as saying the ‘top 6’ should be deducted enough points to ensure none of them can compete in Europe next season. Let the ‘lesser’ clubs have a go: spread the money around about more.

That’ll teach the greedy bastards.

 

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4 minutes ago, ianb1547 said:

It is very difficult to punish a club or an owner without punishing the fans?

Whether its by fines or points deductions they, because of the associated reduction in finance/prize money made, still ultimately punishes the fan by the club not having its full spending power to buy the best player/improve the team. 

 

Happened to us mate not that long ago. 

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Just now, Hadron Collider said:

Happened to us mate not that long ago. 

I know...that's my point. Whatever the authorities do to a club or owner affects the fans. 

Ive been reading a lot about not punishing fans....but that's impossible, in my view.

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1 minute ago, ianb1547 said:

I know...that's my point. Whatever the authorities do to a club or owner affects the fans. 

Ive been reading a lot about not punishing fans....but that's impossible, in my view.

This could be the perfect time to punish these teams as the fans are not getting to the games anyway. What these owners have done is despicable. They have to be punished in some way. 

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3 minutes ago, beararse said:

Perhaps not, however I would imagine, like every association, there will be a code of conduct ensuring fair treatment of other association members. This move clearly breached that.

I happen to believe the clubs should get hammered.

That should be points and/or financial penalties but not relegation.

Had we been deducted points and served a financial penalty, rather than forced to the bottom tier then I reckon must Rangers fans would have shrugged and thought ‘ok, fair enough, we kinda deserved that’.

Rangers punishment was disproportionate.

Deducting points and fining these clubs isn’t IMO.

In fact, I’d go as far as saying the ‘top 6’ should be deducted enough points to ensure none of them can compete in Europe next season. Let the ‘lesser’ clubs have a go: spread the money around about more.

That’ll teach the greedy bastards.

 

Completely agree that our punishment was disproportionate & I think there have been others which were also.

I still don't think deducting points is the right way to go, you're not hurting the people who done all of this that way (the owners), you're hurting the players and the fans. 

And these cunts have deep pockets, it gets to the point where financial penalties do nothing unless they're huge. 

I'd like to see them put a marker down & just flat out ban the owners from owning a club in every league across Europe. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hadron Collider said:

This could be the perfect time to punish these teams as the fans are not getting to the games anyway. What these owners have done is despicable. They have to be punished in some way. 

Totally agree with you 100%. It was despicable and I dont know how some chairmen are going to be next time one the so-called big 6 visits their club knowing they were prepared to shaft everybody else for greed.

Whatever happens, fans of those 6 teams wont get away unscathed.

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