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The Euros


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34 minutes ago, Misteral said:

Thought it was obvious I was talking about experiencing racism and not about not understanding what it is and the effects it can have in a civilised society. Most people do thankfully. Sorry for your misunderstanding, if that's what it was. :unsure:

Nah mate you fucked it

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Interesting speaking to a lad at work today who was at the final - Italian parents, but born and brought up in Yorkshire. Said he had never experienced the type of aggressive behaviour he saw inside and around the ground - people coming up to them before and during the game (they were wearing Italian tops) and telling them to fuck off back to their own country. Said during  the whole game there were England fans coming over to them, getting in their faces and most of the comments were aggressively about them not being English and being in England. 

Police advised them to stay in the ground an hour after (which I don't think was such a hardship after the way the game ended) but they got threatened a few times walking back to the tube an hour after the game. Said the contrast with the semi final was incredible - where Spanish and Italian fans were mixing throughout and everyone still together after the game with no trouble.

I definitely noticed it a bit at our game at Wembley the week before - the 'coming home' song really seems to have changed and its meaning does seem to have started to mean others can get to fuck. Rather than the original intent of the song, which was a bit more self deprecating. In saying that, at the Scotland game, we were mixed in beside English fans in the concourse and they were fine - maybe a wee bit arrogant and full of themselves but we didn't get any hassle leaving the ground, or before/after the game in pubs or around London. But I now wonder if that had anything to do with us not being seen as people from outside the UK?

Majority of England fans are decent football fans but the media driven hype seems to have created a bit of a feeling of entitlement with a big section of their support and I think a lot of the racism that seems to be bubbling up draws on that, fuelled by politicians and knuckle dragging media outlets like the Mail and Sun. 

As for the crowd trouble at the game - really not surprised given the low key police presence for the Scotland game at Wembley and the majority of stewarding done by 'volunteers' who were more used to waving foam fingers about, with no clue what was going on, than potentially dealing with any crowd trouble - compared to crowd management at Ibrox or at any regular International match, it was amateur as fuck and potentially really dangerous if things had properly kicked off.   

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3 hours ago, They Gnu said:

70% of the abusive tweets came from abroad, when Brexit won we were told it was because Russian Bots were flooding social media with socially divisivive tweets. Funnily I’ve not heard anything similar about the racism tweets..

in this instance I used tolerance to mean sympathy or indulgence for people with beliefs different from my own. I have no tolerance for the racist divisive extreme left BLM just as I despise the KKK or BNP. As for illegal economic migrants landing on our shores, I believe everything possible should be done to stop that. 

I genuinely don’t know where the tweets came from, I don’t know who made the tweets. However, I don’t think anyone can seriously deny there is an issue with racism in this country (albeit massively smaller than in some countries) and that was demonstrated at the weekend.

If that’s what you mean by tolerance, fair enough.

Your take on BLM, and the current issue with taking a knee and racism directed at the black English players is relevant, though. Now I can’t specifically recollect your exact opinion on taking the knee, but there’s a definite body of opinion that taking the knee is support for BLM/Marxism. Yet every player I’ve heard talking about it says it purely about protesting against racism. The racism that some of them face very regularly in this country.

I do wonder why some try to ignore this, and focus on why they think the footballers take the knee. These people are basically saying - ‘no, you’re not taking the knee to protest against racism - you’re doing it to support far left/BLM/Marxism’.

As for everything being done to prevent illegal economic migrants coming to this country I would include work/help/aid, etc in the countries of origin. Which I think you probably agree with, following your comments re the EU and it’s treatment of Africa. 

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1 hour ago, left winger said:

I genuinely don’t know where the tweets came from, I don’t know who made the tweets. However, I don’t think anyone can seriously deny there is an issue with racism in this country (albeit massively smaller than in some countries) and that was demonstrated at the weekend.

If that’s what you mean by tolerance, fair enough.

Your take on BLM, and the current issue with taking a knee and racism directed at the black English players is relevant, though. Now I can’t specifically recollect your exact opinion on taking the knee, but there’s a definite body of opinion that taking the knee is support for BLM/Marxism. Yet every player I’ve heard talking about it says it purely about protesting against racism. The racism that some of them face very regularly in this country.

I do wonder why some try to ignore this, and focus on why they think the footballers take the knee. These people are basically saying - ‘no, you’re not taking the knee to protest against racism - you’re doing it to support far left/BLM/Marxism’.

As for everything being done to prevent illegal economic migrants coming to this country I would include work/help/aid, etc in the countries of origin. Which I think you probably agree with, following your comments re the EU and it’s treatment of Africa. 

The gathering at the Rashford  mural had loads of BLM placards.

ive been banging on for years that trade (fair and tariff free) not aid is the only way to fix Africa. The EU, America and now China have been fucking them over for years. Banks have been told not to lend to African countries to build coal fired power stations, meanwhile China and India build hundreds. 

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1 hour ago, They Gnu said:

The gathering at the Rashford  mural had loads of BLM placards.

ive been banging on for years that trade (fair and tariff free) not aid is the only way to fix Africa. The EU, America and now China have been fucking them over for years. Banks have been told not to lend to African countries to build coal fired power stations, meanwhile China and India build hundreds. 

The gathering for Rashford may have had loads of BLM banners, but that obviously doesn't mean that footballers are supporting far left Marxists, by taking the knee.

I agree to some degree with you on 'fixing Africa' - just wasn't something I'd noticed you mentioning prior to you talking about the EU actions there.

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3 minutes ago, left winger said:

The gathering for Rashford may have had loads of BLM banners, but that obviously doesn't mean that footballers are supporting far left Marxists, by taking the knee.

I agree to some degree with you on 'fixing Africa' - just wasn't something I'd noticed you mentioning prior to you talking about the EU actions there.

I understand that and I know Kapernick was the first to take the knee, however because of the rise of BLM and the Floyd killing taking the knee will always be associated with BLM. and BLM will always be associated with attacks on the Cenotaph and other British monuments. 
re the EU when I mentioned it’s trade policy with Africa was one of the reasons I voted to leave, people told me I was lying?😀 Read Dead Aid by African economist Dambisa Moyo it’s a bit dated but puts the case for trade not aid very well.

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19 hours ago, ayrshireranger said:

I really like you, Gnu, but the stories from Sunday inside and outside Wembley, and before, during and after the final have been ******* horrendous. And I say that as a man who grew up with their fans behaviour for decades. The first Euros I remember was 1980, and they were a vicious mob, and would be for the nest 20 years. Sunday was the worst I have seen them since Euro 2000. And I posted the story of them assaulting a Danish family of mum, dad and little girl after the SF. 

We have been told since 2000 that their hooliganism was dead. Aye?

There has been worse trouble with England fans than that :lol: 

A small number rushing turnstiles to get in and an even smaller number punching/kicking them is nothing.

1 hour ago, Willis said:

Is it true that Saka had never taken a penalty before in his career?

Yes, in his professional career anyway

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