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Remarkable that we have a bunch of average joes, probably a wee bit overweight, who have never achieved anything truly exceptional, and who don't handle much pressure other than maybe a deadline now and again for work, feeling qualified to comment on the mental state of a survivor of child sexual abuse, and most decorated gymnast of all time, competing at the highest level of competition in her field.

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Just now, JamieD said:

Now THAT'S an interesting topic. 

I would be amazed if any of the top competitors in any sport that involves endurance or power isn't on something

Mark Henry is a known steroid abuser so you could be right. But that's quite a sweeping statement to make.

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Just now, SkylineBlue said:

Remarkable that we have a bunch of average joes, probably a wee bit overweight, who have never achieved anything truly exceptional, and who don't handle much pressure other than maybe a deadline now and again for work, feeling qualified to comment on the mental state of a survivor of child sexual abuse, and most decorated gymnast of all time, competing at the highest level of competition in her field.

Quite disrespectful.

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2 minutes ago, JamieD said:

I remember an old episode of Great Lives with Christopher Hitchens, where he chose Trotsky, and Matthew Parris ambushed him with that quote to prove what a nasty piece of work his hero was, and Hitchens was just like "so what, the British command took the exact same view during WW1, and I totally agree with the sentiment" :lol: Parris was incredulous.

I've read parts of the book as well, but can't remember any of it. I'm a big fan of knowing what you criticise, so I've read a hell of a lot of Marxist works, probably more than most commies, but most of it is insufferably dull :lol: 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Specky Liar said:

Mark Henry is a known steroid abuser so you could be right. But that's quite a sweeping statement to make.

Its certainly sweeping, but it's just a personal feeling based on the many examples of known cases, what that says about how likely it is that clean athletes could remain competitive if any dopers are in the field, what the relative rewards to risks are, and what anonymous studies and polls among athletes have said about how athletes feel about doping to achieve success. We know, from sports like cycling, that athletes who dope genuinely do NOT believe they are cheating, they believe they are levelling the playing field, so it isn't like there's an improbability factor, imagining that so many people could all bring themselves to do it. All it takes is for them to believe others are doing it, and then it becomes an easier decision.

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14 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

I've read parts of the book as well, but can't remember any of it. I'm a big fan of knowing what you criticise, so I've read a hell of a lot of Marxist works, probably more than most commies, but most of it is insufferably dull :lol: 

 

Oh yeah, most is dreadful. Lenin is unreadable, imo. Thuggish and pedantic. Trotsky is an absolutely majestic writer though. I'm not a communist, but I have at least a dozen or so of his books on all sorts of subjects. Would read him on literally any subject. 

Anyway, we digress :lol:

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21 minutes ago, JamieD said:

Its certainly sweeping, but it's just a personal feeling based on the many examples of known cases, what that says about how likely it is that clean athletes could remain competitive if any dopers are in the field, what the relative rewards to risks are, and what anonymous studies and polls among athletes have said about how athletes feel about doping to achieve success. We know, from sports like cycling, that athletes who dope genuinely do NOT believe they are cheating, they believe they are levelling the playing field, so it isn't like there's an improbability factor, imagining that so many people could all bring themselves to do it. All it takes is for them to believe others are doing it, and then it becomes an easier decision.

Mark Henry said it helped him massively in the powerlifting. He stopped when the whole Chris Benoit thing happened and he was never able to lift the same again.

Cycling should be abolished as they are all cheating filth.

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Seen something suggesting that she felt that she was being marked/scored harsher than other competitors due to being considerably better and that's why she dropped out the team event, so as not to affect the overall score.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Specky Liar said:

Mark Henry said it helped him massively in the powerlifting. He stopped when the whole Chris Benoit thing happened and he was never able to lift the same again.

Cycling should be abolished as they are all cheating filth.

I thought Mark Henry was renowned for being the best powerlifter who doesn't take drugs, only competing in tested events? Have I got that wrong?

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15 minutes ago, JamieD said:

I thought Mark Henry was renowned for being the best powerlifter who doesn't take drugs, only competing in tested events? Have I got that wrong?

Yeah

He was a massive steroid abuser and although it brought him success he also had violent outbursts and stopped taking them when the Benoit tragedy happened. Got to respect him for giving up on his success so he didn't potentially slaughter his family.

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19 hours ago, TheKingObv said:

Always amusing seeing people who have never done sport at any level commenting on these issues.

Usually overweight middle aged men too. 

Saying this on a forum which is designed for people to talk and debate about Rangers which has professional footballers. You ever been critical of a Rangers player? Talking nonsense. 

19 hours ago, JamieD said:

Because it's a big deal and she probably thought it was worth a try?

 

A big deal is screwing your team over by quitting and her team mates who trained a long five years to try and win a gold. As I said if she wasn't in the right place then don't compete. 

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7 hours ago, SkylineBlue said:

Because mental health problems don't really give a fuck if it's a convenient time for you or not?

Also, you're a fucking lunatic.

She CHOSE to compete. She knew she wasn't right mentally (that is if you believe the narrative put out). By competing knowing she isn't right she fucked over her team. This isn't a complicated issue. 

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27 minutes ago, keithgersbear said:

She CHOSE to compete. She knew she wasn't right mentally (that is if you believe the narrative put out). By competing knowing she isn't right she fucked over her team. This isn't a complicated issue. 

Maybe she knew she wasn't right but still tried her best only to realise she couldn't do it? 

Pulling out is probably the hardest thing she's done. She's an Olympian ffs, these aren't your every day people 😂

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4 minutes ago, born a blue nose said:

Maybe she knew she wasn't right but still tried her best only to realise she couldn't do it? 

Pulling out is probably the hardest thing she's done. She's an Olympian ffs, these aren't your every day people 😂

In a dangerous sport? In which you must be on it to not get hurt never mind win. I can understand the sympathy from some here. I've had my own mental health issues but ultimately I look at it and can only call it for what it is. She did quit.

Roberto Duran quit against SRL. Still seen as one of the greats although that still casts a tiny shadow on his legacy. Probably be the same with Biles. Probably won't compete again. Gymnasts don't last long. 

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48 minutes ago, keithgersbear said:

She CHOSE to compete. She knew she wasn't right mentally (that is if you believe the narrative put out). By competing knowing she isn't right she fucked over her team. This isn't a complicated issue. 

A few mad ideas for you:

1. She felt OK when she chose to compete 

2. She didn't feel OK when she chose to compete but tried to soldier on and realised she couldn't handle it so sensibly removed herself from the situation

3. Maybe she should never have competed at all but people with mental health issues don't always make the best decisions when they're in a bad spot 

 

You're right - it isn't a complicated issue. Why folk ( who know absolutely fuck all about her mental state) are piling on to another human being calling her deserter etc because of her mental health is fucking beyond me. But here we are.

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3 hours ago, keithgersbear said:

She CHOSE to compete. She knew she wasn't right mentally (that is if you believe the narrative put out). By competing knowing she isn't right she fucked over her team. This isn't a complicated issue. 

 

4 hours ago, keithgersbear said:

Saying this on a forum which is designed for people to talk and debate about Rangers which has professional footballers. You ever been critical of a Rangers player? Talking nonsense. 

A big deal is screwing your team over by quitting and her team mates who trained a long five years to try and win a gold. As I said if she wasn't in the right place then don't compete. 

What makes you think she knew she wasn't okay when she turned up for the Olympics?

Even if she did, if she had pulled out citing mental health problems before the Olympics began, I have a suspicion that you and her other critics would be making the same criticisms. Except with the added factor of saying "she has left her team in the lurch because now the best gymnast isn't in the team".

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5 hours ago, The Specky Liar said:

Yeah

He was a massive steroid abuser and although it brought him success he also had violent outbursts and stopped taking them when the Benoit tragedy happened. Got to respect him for giving up on his success so he didn't potentially slaughter his family.

Where are you getting this from? I'm not saying he was clean, but I have never seen anything from him admitting that he took gear. Here's an interview from 2014 where he says he never did. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2226821-wwe-mark-henry-interview-exclusive-haters-steroids-and-15-years-of-smackdown

 

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15 hours ago, JamieD said:

I remember an old episode of Great Lives with Christopher Hitchens, where he chose Trotsky, and Matthew Parris ambushed him with that quote to prove what a nasty piece of work his hero was, and Hitchens was just like "so what, the British command took the exact same view during WW1, and I totally agree with the sentiment" :lol: Parris was incredulous.

I just dug that up on YouTube, and it's well worth listening to. The one dimensional career revolutionary presented in our O Level syllabus clearly does the man a great disservice. To be described as a great journalist by Hitchens is, in itself, great acclaim.

Ever the contrarian, Hitchens certainly does him justice, but you can almost feel the other two bristle in frustration. 😅

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9 hours ago, keithgersbear said:

In a dangerous sport? In which you must be on it to not get hurt never mind win. I can understand the sympathy from some here. I've had my own mental health issues but ultimately I look at it and can only call it for what it is. She did quit.

Roberto Duran quit against SRL. Still seen as one of the greats although that still casts a tiny shadow on his legacy. Probably be the same with Biles. Probably won't compete again. Gymnasts don't last long. 

She defo looked injured and then pulled out. Could see she wasn’t going to go forward because of the injury. After that, she brought up the mental health thing. Hope she is ok for everyone’s sake. 

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