Full backs.

[beararse 6,352]

25 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

39 minutes ago, beararse said:

anyone with a football brain can see that Patterson is the equal to or better than Tav

Might be better if you quote the full sentence rather than part of it.

i actually typed the following…

‘anyone with a football brain can see that Patterson is the equal to or better than Tav, certainly on recent form.’

im sure you’ll agree that is an entirely different statement to the one you made it out to be.

[Hadron Collider 30,742]

12 hours ago, DiamondDan said:

Hes got competition from Ryan Jack.

Jack is one of those as well. The more games he misses, the better he gets. 

[ForeverAndEver 71,310]

4 hours ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

Take him out the side our whole left side is fucked because Bassey can just run and that's all he can do, his end product is woeful. 

So, he has something over Barisic this season, because he canny run, canny pass, and canny cross.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,575]

8 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

So, he has something over Barisic this season, because he canny run, canny pass, and canny cross.

Canny defend either.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,667]

47 minutes ago, beararse said:

so, by ‘every single’ stat you mean ‘one’.

You accept he’s played 47 games and had 15 assists so youre challenging my reasonable assumption he makes/takes on average around 10 crosses/free kicks/corners per game?

The remaining figures are simple arithmetic. Number of assists divided by number of crosses equals success rate as a %.

So, what other figures have I made up?

 

 

You totally made up the number of crosses he puts in per game, which means the rest of your figures which you used to conclude that  his returns are actually “piss poor” are completely made up guess work.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,667]

28 minutes ago, beararse said:

Might be better if you quote the full sentence rather than part of it.

i actually typed the following…

‘anyone with a football brain can see that Patterson is the equal to or better than Tav, certainly on recent form.’

im sure you’ll agree that is an entirely different statement to the one you made it out to be.

How recent is recent form exactly because Patterson has barely kicked a ball for months.

[ayrshireranger 8,045]

Barasic gets so out of position in games its shocking. Wallace was the same, drifting way inside to sit almost shoulder to shoulder with the left-sided CH. Then has to sprint out like Usain Bolt to get back out to his actual position. The amount of games, if the opposition saw this and a quick crossfield pass was hit, we'd be in trouble down that left all game. At Tannadice, he left the LB position so exposed so often, I was actually shouting at the TV. 

VG/great going forward, always has been poor defensively. And nobody talks about how easy he is to bully physically, for a 6ft defender. No upper body strength whatsoever. His crossing and free kicks get him a pass. 

[beararse 6,352]

52 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

You totally made up the number of crosses he puts in per game, which means the rest of your figures which you used to conclude that  his returns are actually “piss poor” are completely made up guess work.

It’s called an educated guess.

To back up this educated guess and to make sure I wasn’t making an arse of myself I’ve just finished watching the Dundee Utd game at 4x the speed. 
 

In a game where Barisic’s, and the team’s overall  performance, was universally viewed as atrocious Barisic took 2 free kicks, 3 corners, succeeded in making 5 crosses and failed to get passed the first man with another 2 crosses.

Taking his contribution towards ‘potential’ assists to 12, ie 2 above the average benchmark I suggested.

And that was an out of form Barisic in a shite team performance.

Logic would suggest he would match or improve on these figures if he was playing out his skin in a dominant team.

Like I said earlier, if you take an average of 10  crosses/free kicks/corners per game, he has an assist rate of 3.2% whilst playing against mostly dross in Scotland.

If you are relying heavily on supply from the wingbacks that simply isn't good enough IMO.

[beararse 6,352]

1 hour ago, DBBTB said:

How recent is recent form exactly because Patterson has barely kicked a ball for months.

Given the conversation, surely you could determine I was talking about Tav’s recent form without me needing to explicitly mention that.

[sausagetrunks 6,006]

Let’s Defend first, the two need dropped. 

[Jasper Blues 497]

2 hours ago, jjbscotty12 said:

I don’t even think Bassey is good enough for Rangers tbh.

Is Aribo worth another try at LB? 

Thought he did well when we were forced into trying him. 

[bluenoz 30,585]

People were always going to defend Tav over Patterson. Probably because he is our captain, more experienced, loyalty etc but I believe Patterson is ready and is the better of the two players. But Gerrard will continue to defend Tav (and Goldson), that's just the way it is.

Has anyone actually ever put in a bid for Tavernier, Barisic or Goldson? That should say a lot.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,667]

2 hours ago, beararse said:

It’s called an educated guess.

To back up this educated guess and to make sure I wasn’t making an arse of myself I’ve just finished watching the Dundee Utd game at 4x the speed. 
 

In a game where Barisic’s, and the team’s overall  performance, was universally viewed as atrocious Barisic took 2 free kicks, 3 corners, succeeded in making 5 crosses and failed to get passed the first man with another 2 crosses.

Taking his contribution towards ‘potential’ assists to 12, ie 2 above the average benchmark I suggested.

And that was an out of form Barisic in a shite team performance.

Logic would suggest he would match or improve on these figures if he was playing out his skin in a dominant team.

Like I said earlier, if you take an average of 10  crosses/free kicks/corners per game, he has an assist rate of 3.2% whilst playing against mostly dross in Scotland.

If you are relying heavily on supply from the wingbacks that simply isn't good enough IMO.

 

Barisic has been pish this season, he’s miles off the pace and he’s playing like a player who is struggling for fitness after struggling with injury for months, but he is and has been one of our most creative players, and his return from full back in terms of assists and creative input is perfectly adaquete. Infact, the numbers he puts up in terms of assists are comparable to the numbers that TAA and Robertson put up for Liverpool and they are widely regarded as two do the most creative full backs in the world (I’m not saying he’s as good as them before anybody jumps on that point) so just how many assists are people expecting him to put him?

Football is all about opinions, but to try and downplay his input and how good it is from a creative and attacking standpoint is absolute claptrap that reeks of somebody who just doesn’t want to admit they are wrong.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,667]

So now we have people actually implying that our players aren’t even that good because people haven’t bid for them 

People have actually lost the fucking plot

 

 

 

[bluenoz 30,585]

1 minute ago, DBBTB said:

So now we have people actually implying that our players aren’t even that good because people haven’t bid for them 

People have actually lost the fucking plot

 

 

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. We went undefeated last year with a record amount of clean sheets so why is Tavernier not in demand from teams down in England based on a great season?

I will be glad to hear your explanation since you seem to think people have lost the plot.

 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,667]

51 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. We went undefeated last year with a record amount of clean sheets so why is Tavernier not in demand from teams down in England based on a great season?

I will be glad to hear your explanation since you seem to think people have lost the plot.

 

Maybe it’s because he’s pushing 30 and clubs traditionally go after younger players these days? Maybe it’s because  he signed a new contract with us four months ago? Maybe it’s because he’s happy where he is and he’s told his agent he isn’t interested when clubs have out feelers out? I don’t know, and neither do you.

I’ll ask you this back, if Patterson is as good as you seem to think he is (better than Tav has been your exact wording more than once) then why haven’t clubs come in for him? Surely a young prospect with upside to improve who’s allegedly better than the club captain but is struggling for first team football should be ripe for the picking by an English club?

You used to come out with this same stuff about Edmundson like he was some sort of held down player who was being kept out of the side by manager politics or a blind spot but have you ever though that maybe it’s just the case that players like Edmundson, Bassey and Patterson (in his case it’s yet because he will become a big player for us) just aren’t as good as the players who they haven’t been able to displace over the past year?

There’s been this strange obsession on here with players who aren’t playing suddenly becoming more highly rated than their ability deserves for 15 years now, so I’m not even surprised it’s reared it’s head as soon we’ve had a few bad results.

[sausagetrunks 6,006]

5 hours ago, DBBTB said:

 

He's certainly better defensively.  id start Patterson ATM and Bassey.  we need to defend first and foremost. our fullbacks are getting nullified anyway, its not working atm.  

[beararse 6,352]

1 hour ago, DBBTB said:

 

Barisic has been pish this season, he’s miles off the pace and he’s playing like a player who is struggling for fitness after struggling with injury for months, but he is and has been one of our most creative players, and his return from full back in terms of assists and creative input is perfectly adaquete. Infact, the numbers he puts up in terms of assists are comparable to the numbers that TAA and Robertson put up for Liverpool and they are widely regarded as two do the most creative full backs in the world (I’m not saying he’s as good as them before anybody jumps on that point) so just how many assists are people expecting him to put him?

Football is all about opinions, but to try and downplay his input and how good it is from a creative and attacking standpoint is absolute claptrap that reeks of somebody who just doesn’t want to admit they are wrong.

All about opinions but my opinion is claptrap. Is that right?

Im basing my argument on figures, albeit it is an estimated  figure when it comes to the number of crosses Barisic hits per game. That estimate is actually lower then he actually managed in a terrible display v Dundee Utd. It’s reasonable to assume he manages at least similar per game over the course of a season.

That being the case, We will score no more than  32 goals from every 1,000 crosses Barisic hits.

Thats shite IMO.

Now, it might be more of a reflection on our strikers but clearly it is not that profitable a tactic to rely on Barisic and his glorified crossing.

He is not the assist machine he is made out to be. His figures should be considerably higher.

Also, you can’t compare Robertson and TAA’s assists with Barisic unless you know how many crosses they put in.

They might well only average 5 per game, therefore their yield would be improved.

It doesn’t really matter. They play in a far superior league against far superior opposition so there is no comparison. They’ve also got better players to get on the end of the ball. 

 

 

[SIRB_72 3,980]

Defensively with the full backs I don't think it should be any surprise that we concede from those positions. We conceded quite a few goals last season, not that there were many, from players getting in between our full backs and centre halfs or exposing the space left by them with crosses. It's the big negative of our system.

We managed to negate that by using two DMs to cover the full backs leaving 4 at the back, sometimes just 3. The issue we have is that it is completely mastered by Davis, Kamara and Jack in any combo and Jack is out and Kamara had his susension.

I don't think it's any mistake that our best performance this season, especially defensively, was against Livingston when we had just Davis and Kamara infront of Goldson and Balogun. Dundee United was different because we added Lundstram in a base 3 which hurt us going forward and defending.

As for going forward I'd argue Borna is still not fit and is suffering from the same injury he picked up at the end of the season and carried through the Euros. Therefore shouldn't be playing and Bassey should definetely be in on Friday at least.

I actually think Tav going forward hasn't been bad. Livi he was good and I'd argue against Dundee United he looked the most likely to create something. Nobody was doing anything last Tuesday and he shouldn't have to relied on so often when we also have Barisic, Kent, Wright and Sakala playing at anyone time during that first leg. As for last night I thought he was poor. Instead of the constant crosses I'd rather he got to the byline more often, especially playing against 10.

[bluenoz 30,585]

1 hour ago, DBBTB said:

Maybe it’s because he’s pushing 30 and clubs traditionally go after younger players these days? Maybe it’s because  he signed a new contract with us four months ago? Maybe it’s because he’s happy where he is and he’s told his agent he isn’t interested when clubs have out feelers out? I don’t know, and neither do you.

I’ll ask you this back, if Patterson is as good as you seem to think he is (better than Tav has been your exact wording more than once) then why haven’t clubs come in for him? Surely a young prospect with upside to improve who’s allegedly better than the club captain but is struggling for first team football should be ripe for the picking by an English club?

You used to come out with this same stuff about Edmundson like he was some sort of held down player who was being kept out of the side by manager politics or a blind spot but have you ever though that maybe it’s just the case that players like Edmundson, Bassey and Patterson (in his case it’s yet because he will become a big player for us) just aren’t as good as the players who they haven’t been able to displace over the past year?

There’s been this strange obsession on here with players who aren’t playing suddenly becoming more highly rated than their ability deserves for 15 years now, so I’m not even surprised it’s reared it’s head as soon we’ve had a few bad results.

You are exactly right about age. That is why no one is banging down the door for Tav, Goldson or Barisic and why celtic got what they did for Thierney & Ajer.

If you want a young players value to increase so you can sell for millions then you have to play them. Patterson is worth little until he plays consistent first team football. 

I used to defend Edmundson only because so many wanted rid. I never thought he was the first or second choice but always adequate enough to be 3rd or 4th

[beararse 6,352]

1 hour ago, Rangers_no1 said:

TAA 988 crosses in the EPL for Liverpool, 33 assists. Many of those assists are not even crosses.

But aye someone regarded as having one of the best crosses in the game, his return is 'shite'...

Behave yoursel man….

TAA is playing in a far superior league with some of the best defenders and goal keepers in the world keeping out resultant shots/headers from his crosses or defending their box before they even get to the strikers.

Meanwhile Barisic is up against journeyman centre half’s and right backs playing for the likes of St Johnstone, Hamilton, Motherwell and Livingston.

Stick TAA in a Rangers team against SPL teams and watch his assist rate easily double.

Besides, if you are going to compare Barisic to TAA check their scouting reports. As if you need proof, Barisic is a one trick pony.  

[JuliusC 87]

3 hours ago, bluenoz said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. We went undefeated last year with a record amount of clean sheets so why is Tavernier not in demand from teams down in England based on a great season?

I will be glad to hear your explanation since you seem to think people have lost the plot.

 

No offers. Fact. Doesn't make him a bad player though, but it is an indicator he isn't that good for someone to be tempted.

Not playing well. Fact. The eyes don't lie.

Tells its own story. Nothing lasts forever.

We are currently witnessing the opposite of last season. It's actually quite a slump by comparison.

However, Tav has been here before and turned it around. Whether he can again is purely speculation.

He appears to have lost confidence and I do rate him well above Barisic and I'll leave it at that.

It appears both in here and on FF, many have lost faith in both full backs along with Goldson, if that's any measure after a defeat, just that its 3 now in short order.

For me, both Patterson and Bassey would not weaken the team. Maybe it's their time, who knows, until they get a run in the team. Patterson is a talent no doubt. The only thing Tav has over him is experience, as the youngster has more in his locker. Bassey less so at this point. The answer will come the end of the season if not before. 

For anyone to come in for Patterson in particular, he needs game time that imo, he thoroughly deserves, if not for the gaffers loyalty to Tav.

The gaffer needs to decide on the way forward and stick with it, as any continual chopping and changing will send the wrong messages and lend itself to inconsistency and we cant afford that. Good strong leadership is paramount at this juncture. It wont take too long to see which direction we are heading, confirming if the gaffer has made the right choices.

[bluenoz 30,585]

51 minutes ago, JuliusC said:

No offers. Fact. Doesn't make him a bad player though, but it is an indicator he isn't that good for someone to be tempted.

Not playing well. Fact. The eyes don't lie.

Tells its own story. Nothing lasts forever.

We are currently witnessing the opposite of last season. It's actually quite a slump by comparison.

However, Tav has been here before and turned it around. Whether he can again is purely speculation.

He appears to have lost confidence and I do rate him well above Barisic and I'll leave it at that.

It appears both in here and on FF, many have lost faith in both full backs along with Goldson, if that's any measure after a defeat, just that its 3 now in short order.

For me, both Patterson and Bassey would not weaken the team. Maybe it's their time, who knows, until they get a run in the team. Patterson is a talent no doubt. The only thing Tav has over him is experience, as the youngster has more in his locker. Bassey less so at this point. The answer will come the end of the season if not before. 

For anyone to come in for Patterson in particular, he needs game time that imo, he thoroughly deserves, if not for the gaffers loyalty to Tav.

The gaffer needs to decide on the way forward and stick with it, as any continual chopping and changing will send the wrong messages and lend itself to inconsistency and we cant afford that. Good strong leadership is paramount at this juncture. It wont take too long to see which direction we are heading, confirming if the gaffer has made the right choices.

Agree with most of that post mate but I do think Barisic will come good again. He is clearly not 100% which has probably something to do with his injury towards the end of last season.

[beararse 6,352]

15 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

@beararse utterly clueless.

Says the fella holding Barisic in high esteem alongside TAA and Robertson..

Look, I think his assist stats should be off the scale in Scotland given his obvious ability. They’re not IMO.

Added to which Barisic is a decidedly average defender and a total shitebag when it comes to 50/50s who’s main ability to pick out a cross or curl in a free kick appears to have deserted him.

You’re clearly  happy to keep on playing him, I’m not.

 

[beararse 6,352]

1 minute ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Resorting to lies. Nice one!

Apologies, got you mixed up with another poster who brought Robertson and TAA into the discussion.

You simply quoted TAA’s assists v’s crosses.