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Hopefully matchday vaccines next


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12 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

I don't think it needs to be a jump to 'new world order'.

There are so many things we could go over here, dozens upon dozens of things.

If we just start and end with mass vaccination, and particularly mandated vaccination, there is very good data now on the strength of naturally acquired immunity.

Which is actually something 'they' (Vallance and Whitty if we want to keep to the UK) said would be the case right at the very outset, that for 80% of people it would be a mild illness if they had symptoms at all and they'd recover and be immune. Then at some point around hailing the arrival of the vaccines the narrative on the definition of immunity was changed to it only being possible to be obtained from vaccination.

Which is wrong, yet it doesn't get much coverage and in other countries where they're using vaccine passports/health passes you lose the extra freedoms if you refuse the booster. Despite there being no evidence boosters are needed.

Now some of you would happily get jagged weekly if you needed to be and have no problem with being asked to show you're vaccinated to be able to get a cup of coffee or get on a train or whatever. You're also happy for healthy children to be vaccinated, something that was pretty unthinkable at the turn of the year.

But I think these things are concerning. It's actually astonishing how normalized they've become with the success of the nudge theory that's constantly been applied.

 

 

I think you've went down the rabbit hole mate. 

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15 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

I don't think it needs to be a jump to 'new world order'.

There are so many things we could go over here, dozens upon dozens of things.

If we just start and end with mass vaccination, and particularly mandated vaccination, there is very good data now on the strength of naturally acquired immunity.

Which is actually something 'they' (Vallance and Whitty if we want to keep to the UK) said would be the case right at the very outset, that for 80% of people it would be a mild illness if they had symptoms at all and they'd recover and be immune. Then at some point around hailing the arrival of the vaccines the narrative on the definition of immunity was changed to it only being possible to be obtained from vaccination.

Which is wrong, yet it doesn't get much coverage and in other countries where they're using vaccine passports/health passes you lose the extra freedoms if you refuse the booster. Despite there being no evidence boosters are needed.

Now some of you would happily get jagged weekly if you needed to be and have no problem with being asked to show you're vaccinated to be able to get a cup of coffee or get on a train or whatever. You're also happy for healthy children to be vaccinated, something that was pretty unthinkable at the turn of the year.

But I think these things are concerning. It's actually astonishing how normalized they've become with the success of the nudge theory that's constantly been applied.

 

 

Nobody has said anything that remotely implies that's true. When you need to exaggerate so much to make a point it says a lot.

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1 minute ago, born a blue nose said:

Imagine ye got raging at someone that didn't get the flu vaccine lol

I stabbed a guy who told me he never got his BCG. 

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13 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

I don't think it needs to be a jump to 'new world order'.

There are so many things we could go over here, dozens upon dozens of things.

If we just start and end with mass vaccination, and particularly mandated vaccination, there is very good data now on the strength of naturally acquired immunity.

Which is actually something 'they' (Vallance and Whitty if we want to keep to the UK) said would be the case right at the very outset, that for 80% of people it would be a mild illness if they had symptoms at all and they'd recover and be immune. Then at some point around hailing the arrival of the vaccines the narrative on the definition of immunity was changed to it only being possible to be obtained from vaccination.

Which is wrong, yet it doesn't get much coverage and in other countries where they're using vaccine passports/health passes you lose the extra freedoms if you refuse the booster. Despite there being no evidence boosters are needed.

Now some of you would happily get jagged weekly if you needed to be and have no problem with being asked to show you're vaccinated to be able to get a cup of coffee or get on a train or whatever. You're also happy for healthy children to be vaccinated, something that was pretty unthinkable at the turn of the year.

But I think these things are concerning. It's actually astonishing how normalized they've become with the success of the nudge theory that's constantly been applied.

 

 

Natural immunity isnt the be all and end all that you think it is though. I genuinely think that you over assume how much protection it gives you, especially if your previous infection was one of the earlier strains. To be honest, I was probably the opposite, in being too pessimistic of natural immunity, but it is now becoming clearer that this immunity is starting to wain.

There are lots and lots of people now becoming infected for a second time, especially since the Delta strain became dominant. all the evidence coming out, even the latest from the ONS is showing that reinfection is happening, and is likely to increase the longer people go after recovering from Covid. They are advising people who have recovered to get the vaccine for this reason.

I was never really one who was dead set on not offering the vaccine to kids. If, as it appears to, offer them better odds than not getting it, then great. I dont think it would be right to include them in any vaccine passport type restriction if they chose not to get it though, and I doubt this will apply to them.  

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11 hours ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

Two ridiculous reasons to get vaccinated.

Not that you are ridiculous for doing it for those two reasons, you're in your 30s/40s I think so to some degree health will have come into it too even if your risk of serious illness from Covid is small.

But broadly speaking ridiculous in that we have collectively been coerced into taking a vaccine millions don't need on the basis of being able to have freedoms we'd once taken for granted.

Monkey Butler in his 30's?? Nudging 50 more like it.

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Going to the last three matches at Ibrox and experiencing normality again gave me some optimism but reading this thread has killed that.  I’m as guilty as everybody else for getting involved in pointless argument over the benefits/risks of taking the vaccine.  Pointless, because by this stage, we are all fully entrenched on what side of the fence we sit on the issue.  Those who are vaccinated have a vested interest in defending the decision they have made.  Those who have resisted all the State coercion and ostracisation to this point are also dug in on their views.  Whatever our views on the vaccine, whatever our vaccine status, are we really going to agree to the government splitting us on this issue and back their discriminatory VP system.  

Remember, many of the fans who will no longer be allowed entry by the VP introduction, are the same people who stood united and  took the unrelenting flak from all sides during the spring and summer of 2012 and supported/followed the club on the road back.  Some will have also been there through the lean years of the late 60s and early 80s and are still following to this day.

Given the above, I’ve been really disappointed in our Club on this issue.  I know they are in a difficult position and it’s probably unrealistic for them to not go along with the discriminatory measures mandated by the government.  However, I think that Aberdeen at least showed in their statement last week a recognition and understanding of the positions of the different groups affected by this discriminatory measure.  Is it really asking too much for a similar recognition be given by our own Club to supporters who have followed them through thick and thin over many years.

For over 60 years, I’ve heard Rangers fans shout ‘We are the People’  from the terracing/stands.  For me, it was and expression of togetherness of our support in supporting the Club, despite our many differences and disagreements as individuals.  If it was and is to mean anything, we must stay together and not divide as a support over this.   

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5 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

Going to the last three matches at Ibrox and experiencing normality again gave me some optimism but reading this thread has killed that.  I’m as guilty as everybody else for getting involved in pointless argument over the benefits/risks of taking the vaccine.  Pointless, because by this stage, we are all fully entrenched on what side of the fence we sit on the issue.  Those who are vaccinated have a vested interest in defending the decision they have made.  Those who have resisted all the State coercion and ostracisation to this point are also dug in on their views.  Whatever our views on the vaccine, whatever our vaccine status, are we really going to agree to the government splitting us on this issue and back their discriminatory VP system.  

Remember, many of the fans who will no longer be allowed entry by the VP introduction, are the same people who stood united and  took the unrelenting flak from all sides during the spring and summer of 2012 and supported/followed the club on the road back.  Some will have also been there through the lean years of the late 60s and early 80s and are still following to this day.

Given the above, I’ve been really disappointed in our Club on this issue.  I know they are in a difficult position and it’s probably unrealistic for them to not go along with the discriminatory measures mandated by the government.  However, I think that Aberdeen at least showed in their statement last week a recognition and understanding of the positions of the different groups affected by this discriminatory measure.  Is it really asking too much for a similar recognition be given by our own Club to supporters who have followed them through thick and thin over many years.

For over 60 years, I’ve heard Rangers fans shout ‘We are the People’  from the terracing/stands.  For me, it was and expression of togetherness of our support in supporting the Club, despite our many differences and disagreements as individuals.  If it was and is to mean anything, we must stay together and not divide as a support over this.   

A message of unity, a bold strategy.

You'll probably get abuse from everyone now 😂

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7 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

Going to the last three matches at Ibrox and experiencing normality again gave me some optimism but reading this thread has killed that.  I’m as guilty as everybody else for getting involved in pointless argument over the benefits/risks of taking the vaccine.  Pointless, because by this stage, we are all fully entrenched on what side of the fence we sit on the issue.  Those who are vaccinated have a vested interest in defending the decision they have made.  Those who have resisted all the State coercion and ostracisation to this point are also dug in on their views.  Whatever our views on the vaccine, whatever our vaccine status, are we really going to agree to the government splitting us on this issue and back their discriminatory VP system.  

Remember, many of the fans who will no longer be allowed entry by the VP introduction, are the same people who stood united and  took the unrelenting flak from all sides during the spring and summer of 2012 and supported/followed the club on the road back.  Some will have also been there through the lean years of the late 60s and early 80s and are still following to this day.

Given the above, I’ve been really disappointed in our Club on this issue.  I know they are in a difficult position and it’s probably unrealistic for them to not go along with the discriminatory measures mandated by the government.  However, I think that Aberdeen at least showed in their statement last week a recognition and understanding of the positions of the different groups affected by this discriminatory measure.  Is it really asking too much for a similar recognition be given by our own Club to supporters who have followed them through thick and thin over many years.

For over 60 years, I’ve heard Rangers fans shout ‘We are the People’  from the terracing/stands.  For me, it was and expression of togetherness of our support in supporting the Club, despite our many differences and disagreements as individuals.  If it was and is to mean anything, we must stay together and not divide as a support over this.   

Fuck reading all that 

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11 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

Going to the last three matches at Ibrox and experiencing normality again gave me some optimism but reading this thread has killed that.  I’m as guilty as everybody else for getting involved in pointless argument over the benefits/risks of taking the vaccine.  Pointless, because by this stage, we are all fully entrenched on what side of the fence we sit on the issue.  Those who are vaccinated have a vested interest in defending the decision they have made.  Those who have resisted all the State coercion and ostracisation to this point are also dug in on their views.  Whatever our views on the vaccine, whatever our vaccine status, are we really going to agree to the government splitting us on this issue and back their discriminatory VP system.  

Remember, many of the fans who will no longer be allowed entry by the VP introduction, are the same people who stood united and  took the unrelenting flak from all sides during the spring and summer of 2012 and supported/followed the club on the road back.  Some will have also been there through the lean years of the late 60s and early 80s and are still following to this day.

Given the above, I’ve been really disappointed in our Club on this issue.  I know they are in a difficult position and it’s probably unrealistic for them to not go along with the discriminatory measures mandated by the government.  However, I think that Aberdeen at least showed in their statement last week a recognition and understanding of the positions of the different groups affected by this discriminatory measure.  Is it really asking too much for a similar recognition be given by our own Club to supporters who have followed them through thick and thin over many years.

For over 60 years, I’ve heard Rangers fans shout ‘We are the People’  from the terracing/stands.  For me, it was and expression of togetherness of our support in supporting the Club, despite our many differences and disagreements as individuals.  If it was and is to mean anything, we must stay together and not divide as a support over this.   

Once we get these vaccine passports sorted we can all shout ‘we are the vaccinated people’

Can’t wait 

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4 minutes ago, TamCoopz said:

Once we get these vaccine passports sorted we can all shout ‘we are the vaccinated people’

Can’t wait 

We're up to our knees in the unvaxxed blood get jabbed or you'll die for we are the covid passport boys :crabflute:

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19 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

Going to the last three matches at Ibrox and experiencing normality again gave me some optimism but reading this thread has killed that.  I’m as guilty as everybody else for getting involved in pointless argument over the benefits/risks of taking the vaccine.  Pointless, because by this stage, we are all fully entrenched on what side of the fence we sit on the issue.  Those who are vaccinated have a vested interest in defending the decision they have made.  Those who have resisted all the State coercion and ostracisation to this point are also dug in on their views.  Whatever our views on the vaccine, whatever our vaccine status, are we really going to agree to the government splitting us on this issue and back their discriminatory VP system. 

The reason people argue against vaccine misinformation isn't, as you say, to defend their own decision. It's that the number of people who get vaccinated will be a key factor in how quickly the pandemic will be over so the deniers aren't just hurting themselves, they're holding back the whole country.

The stance of not dividing the support could have some weight if it was like most political divides where there are pros and cons on both sides. But that's not the case with this - there's zero legitimate reason for anyone not to be eligible for a vaccine passport. Those who can safely get the vaccine but refuse to have simply believed nonsense they've heard rather than believing doctors like they have the rest of their lives.

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14 minutes ago, PGWoodwind said:

The reason people argue against vaccine misinformation isn't, as you say, to defend their own decision. It's that the number of people who get vaccinated will be a key factor in how quickly the pandemic will be over so the deniers aren't just hurting themselves, they're holding back the whole country.

The stance of not dividing the support could have some weight if it was like most political divides where there are pros and cons on both sides. But that's not the case with this - there's zero legitimate reason for anyone not to be eligible for a vaccine passport. Those who can safely get the vaccine but refuse to have simply believed nonsense they've heard rather than believing doctors like they have the rest of their lives.

Not wanting something isn’t a legitimate reason not to have something anymore.

There’s a plethora of things we could force on people for their own benefit with the liberal application of that logic.

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21 minutes ago, Bigdave30 said:

Not wanting something isn’t a legitimate reason not to have something anymore.

There’s a plethora of things we could force on people for their own benefit with the liberal application of that logic.

If someone doesn't want to stop at a red light or stick to a speeding limit, should they be allowed to? I assume you don't think so because it affects other people and it's not reasonable to think that anyone has the right to harm others.

If refusing the vaccine only affected themselves then no one would be in favour of vaccine passports.

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14 minutes ago, PGWoodwind said:

If someone doesn't want to stop at a red light or stick to a speeding limit, should they be allowed to? I assume you don't think so because it affects other people and it's not reasonable to think that anyone has the right to harm others.

If refusing the vaccine only affected themselves then no one would be in favour of vaccine passports.

If you want to use car analogies, Do you walk everywhere?

Statistically driving a car you not only increase the risk of death and serious injury to yourself but to everyone else on the road and by the roadside. I bet you don’t guilt trip drivers the same way you do people who choose not to be vaccinated.

We could just ban personal vehicles and force people to use public transport, it would save lives.

 

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Just now, Bigdave30 said:

If you want to use car analogies, Do you walk everywhere?

Statistically driving a car you not only increase the risk of death and serious injury to yourself but to everyone else on the road and by the roadside. I bet you don’t guilt trip drivers the same way you do people who choose not to vaccinated.

We could just ban personal vehicles and force people to use public transport, it would save lives.

 

Walking a 30 minute car trip would take hours.

What's the benefit of not getting the vaccination?

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