Gerrard's transfers - hit or miss?

[EMRFC 4,768]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

Hits

McGregor, Goldson, Barisic, Kamara, Kent, Davis, Defoe Hagi, Balogun, Roofe, Helander, Aribo, Arfield

Misses

Flanagan, Lafferty, Grezda, McAuley, Polster, Firth, Sadiq, coulibaly, Worrall, Ejaria, Hastie, Sadiq, Jones, Stewart, Barker, Ojo, Kamberi, Ofoborh*, Simpson, King, Edmundson,

Probably missed one or two but think that's the jist of it.

I wouldn’t say Flanagan was a miss, was never brought in to start and was useful cover at both RB and LB.

[slimjim1690 4,534]

6 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Did we ever finish below second in the country after Gerard took over? If so, then you have a point.

We went from having the second highest spend in the country to being the champions of the country.

Success.

And when you consider how much the highest spenders had to spend we still had no right to compete, not our fault they have made a cunt of it.

[G.E.C. 18,711]

Flanno was OK at the end of 18/19, had a few stinkers at Spartak, Hearts and Cowdenbeath.

[Leeds_Bear 8,102]

3 hours ago, psb07158 said:

Hits

Balogun, Roofe, McLaughlin, Helander, Hagi, Aribo, Kent, Davis, Defoe, Kamara, Barisic, Goldson, Katic, McGregor, Arfield

Miss

Simpson, King, Barker, Stewart, Edmundson, Jones, Hastie, Worrall, Firth, Polster, Grezda, McAuley, Flanagan, Lafferty, Murphy

Unknown / TBC with more game time

Ofoborh, Sakala, Bacuna, Lundstram, Wright, Bassey

Excluding the unknown/tbc category, I've got 15 hits out of 36 players (42%). Need all 6 of the unknown/tbcs to become hits for the ratio to be 50%.

I think even if you just remove loans we didn't eventually sign it's a much different list and I don't agree with all your misses. 

[SIRB_72 3,985]

Whenever he has spent money or paid higher wages it's generally been pretty good. His frees and loans are much more misses than hits. 

I'd say he's pretty much broken even. I'd say he hasn't had too many expensive mistakes which should be taken into account!

[Marco 1,422]

On the whole, very poor with several that should never have found themselves in a Rangers shirt, but ultimately signed a number who were absolutely crucial to winning 55. 

[graeme_4 34,350]

1 hour ago, tm91 said:

This is spot on. Not all transfers are the same. Some are stop-gaps, some are just to pad the squad out, some are 'until we can get better' signings - and that's before you get to the fact that some signings just don't work out and this isn't football manager - some players just aren't a good fit, or get homesick, or whatever else.

I think a better way of judging Gerrard's transfer record is by analysing our best 11 and then judging how Gerrard has improved the side. McGregor, Barisic, Goldson, Helander, Davis, Kamara, Aribo, Kent, Hagi, Roofe have all been brought in and contributed to a title winning side that has also competed well in Europe. Several of these are significant assets that could be sold off for considerable profit.

There's been a lot of dross, but no real expensive disasters (beyond Grezda and maybe Itten, and the latter could still feasibly work out) and there's clearly been significant improvement of the first 11. 

The issue is that we are now at a point where we need to make another significant step forward, and the challenge is different - Gerrard and co now have to build upon a title-winning side, not build one. That means identifying the right quality players to get us up a level - players like Veerman would have fit that profile. Whether Gerrard can do that is up in the air.

My new favourite poster. 

[johanhentze 14,073]

3 hours ago, psb07158 said:

Hits

Balogun, Roofe, McLaughlin, Helander, Hagi, Aribo, Kent, Davis, Defoe, Kamara, Barisic, Goldson, Katic, McGregor, Arfield

Miss

Simpson, Zungu, King, Kamberi, Ojo, Barker, Stewart, Edmundson, Jones, Hastie, Worrall, Coulibaly, Sadiq, Ejaria, Firth, Polster, Grezda, McAuley, Flanagan, Lafferty, Murphy

Unknown / TBC with more game time

Ofoborh, Sakala, Bacuna, Lundstram, Wright, Bassey

Excluding the unknown/tbc category, I've got 15 hits out of 36 players (42%). Need all 6 of the unknown/tbcs to become hits for the ratio to be 50%.

I think thats quite fair although some of those misses were loans. I think its always going to be hard for us to get to the 50% due to the market we are in. We seem to be targeting a few players that showed big promise and somehow lost their way and try ang get them back on track. There is potential to make a bit of cash on those kind of signings down the road. 

[Smile 26,600]

Scott Arfield  Hit

Allan McGregor Hit

Jamie Murphy undecided did well up until injured

Niko Katic Hit went with my Heart not my head here.

Connor Goldson Hit

Jon Flanagan Miss

Borna Barisic Hit

Kyle Lafferty Miss

Eros Grezda Miss

Gareth McAuley Miss

Matt Polster Miss

Andy Firth Miss

Glan Kamara Hit

Ovie Ejaria Miss

Umar Sadiq Miss

Lassana Coulibaly Miss

Ryan Kent Hit

Steven Davis Hit

Jermain Defoe Hit

Joe Worrall Miss

Jake Hastie Miss

Jordan Jones Miss

Greg Stewart Miss

George Edmundson Miss

Joe Aribo Hit

Fil Helander Hit

Brandon Barker Miss

Sheyi Ojo Miss

Andy King Miss

Ianis Hagi Hit

Flo Kamberi Miss

Calvin Bassey Hit

Jon McLaughlin Hit

Leon Balogun Hit

Kemar Roofe Hit

Cedric Itten Miss

Bongani Zungu Miss

Jack Simpson Miss

Scott Wright bit hit or miss cant decide

Nnamdi Ofoborh heart problem never played

Fashion Sakala Too early to judge

John Lundstram  Hit

Juninho Bacuna Too early to judge

[The Dude 20,026]

1 hour ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Did we ever finish below second in the country after Gerard took over? If so, then you have a point.

We went from having the second highest spend in the country to being the champions of the country.

Success.

It's not really a shoe-string budget when you're considerably outspending 40 of 41 teams in the leagues.

[bluenoz 30,679]

Gareth McAuley 😂

[Ross-Gazza genius 1,902]

Out of all the misses how many have we actually paid a transfer fee for? All the loans and free transfers were ultimately going to be squad fillers or stop gaps. Yes we may have wasted money on wages but it could've been hell of a lot worse. 

When bringing in free transfers and loan signings it's always going to be more of a risk than actually spending £2-5 million on a player. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

52 minutes ago, The Dude said:

It's not really a shoe-string budget when you're considerably outspending 40 of 41 teams in the leagues.

If you finish on top of all 41 teams, including the one spending more than you, and have created a squad worth more that you have paid for all those players, then I would say it was a success.

[The Dude 20,026]

7 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

If you finish on top of all 41 teams, including the one spending more than you, and have created a squad worth more that you have paid for all those players, then I would say it was a success.

Only if you actually win things and realise the value of that squad. If they all walk away for buttons (or as is likely in Goldson's case literally fuck all) and you win one trophy out of 12 or 15, is it really a success?

Also, it's still not a shoe-string budget when it is several times greater than 99% of your opposition.

[RobertN 389]

3 hours ago, .Williamson. said:

Who are these signings and how much later are we waiting? We don’t have an overly young squad

Kent Hagi Aribo Bassy  to name a few

all pretty young and can blow hot or cold

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

12 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Only if you actually win things and realise the value of that squad. If they all walk away for buttons (or as is likely in Goldson's case literally fuck all) and you win one trophy out of 12 or 15, is it really a success?

Also, it's still not a shoe-string budget when it is several times greater than 99% of your opposition.

We did win the league though. The most important in our lifetimes. We also made allot of money in European competitions through what the players delivered. We are also top of the league currently.

Yes, it was a success, can you not remember what it was like when we won the league? It was fucking magical.

We can sell the players, or we can hold onto them and have their value continue to win us things. Regardless if we sell him or not, Kamara is a multimillion pound asset for us that Gerard signed for £50k. Sure we could sell him now and make a big profit. Alternatively we could hold onto him and get his value on the park before either selling him later for a big profit, or even let him leave on a free transfer.

My opinion is that his signings have been a hit.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

We did win the league though. The most important in our lifetimes. We also made allot of money in European competitions through what the players delivered. We are also top of the league currently.

Yes, it was a success, can you not remember what it was like when we won the league? It was fucking magical.

We can sell the players, or we can hold onto them and have their value continue to win us things. Regardless if we sell him or not, Kamara is a multimillion pound asset for us that Gerard signed for £50k. Sure we could sell him now and make a big profit. Alternatively we could hold onto him and get his value on the park before either selling him later for a big profit, or even let him leave on a free transfer.

My opinion is that his signings have been a hit.

 

We did win the league. Last season. This is a new season and last season's success counts for little if we don't win the title again this season.

Just think how much more money we could've made in Europe if we didn't shit the bed v Malmo.

[Zander1 180]

It's very easy to look at that list, see that the majority have been failures, and conclude that Gerrard has been poor in the transfer market...but that's not the whole story.  Many of those guys were frees and/or brought in as squad players.

When you look at our best 11, or even best current squad as a whole, the majority are Gerrard signings that have been good/great for us.  And he's done that without spending a fortune.  That's good enough for me.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

We did win the league. Last season. This is a new season and last season's success counts for little if we don't win the title again this season.

Just think how much more money we could've made in Europe if we didn't shit the bed v Malmo.

We did indeed, thank you for agreeing.

I dont understand why you are arguing with me so much.

You have started a thread asking for opinions. I have given my opinion and have explained why. You seem hell bent on trying to say my opinion is wrong. Its my opinion.

It is starting to appear pretty obvious that you should not have bothered with the poll and just started a thread saying that Gerrard signs duds and you think he smells.

My opinion is that there is no magical formula for the % of players that need to be a success for the transfer business to be  a success. This is different for all clubs dependant on their circumstances.

Gerrard has brought in players, he has developed ones already here and he has shipped some out. Overall, we are in a far stronger place than before he came in due to the combination of all of the above. We have overtaken them to be the top team in the country, currently on a massive streak of not losing to them in head to heads. We have achieved multiple years of European group stage competition, many of the times getting results against teams who could have given us a cuffing on paper. Yes, we have had some poor results along the way including losing in the domestic cups and against Malmo.

Overall though, winning the league is our bread and butter, and stopping their 10-in-a-row was massive. I thought this was too big an ask, but Gerrard and the team he assembled delivered against the odds, with an unbeaten season.

Yes, we have been shakey so far this season, but we are still top of the league, in both cups and in a European group stage. 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

We did indeed, thank you for agreeing.

I dont understand why you are arguing with me so much.

You have started a thread asking for opinions. I have given my opinion and have explained why. You seem hell bent on trying to say my opinion is wrong. Its my opinion.

It is starting to appear pretty obvious that you should not have bothered with the poll and just started a thread saying that Gerrard signs duds and you think he smells.

My opinion is that there is no magical formula for the % of players that need to be a success for the transfer business to be  a success. This is different for all clubs dependant on their circumstances.

Gerrard has brought in players, he has developed ones already here and he has shipped some out. Overall, we are in a far stronger place than before he came in due to the combination of all of the above. We have overtaken them to be the top team in the country, currently on a massive streak of not losing to them in head to heads. We have achieved multiple years of European group stage competition, many of the times getting results against teams who could have given us a cuffing on paper. Yes, we have had some poor results along the way including losing in the domestic cups and against Malmo.

Overall though, winning the league is our bread and butter, and stopping their 10-in-a-row was massive. I thought this was too big an ask, but Gerrard and the team he assembled delivered against the odds, with an unbeaten season.

Yes, we have been shakey so far this season, but we are still top of the league, in both cups and in a European group stage. 

Simply debating the topic at hand and yes, while it may be your opinion, opinions can always be wrong - if you simply wanted to give your opinion and not engage in any further debate that's up to you but, you know, you keep replying so I get the impression you're quite happy to discuss your opinion.

Largely, I do think Gerrard's transfers have left something to be desired - although the number of players I've listed as hits seems to roughly fit with most other posters so not sure why you think I'm suggesting Gerrard signs duds and smells.

 

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Simply debating the topic at hand and yes, while it may be your opinion, opinions can always be wrong - if you simply wanted to give your opinion and not engage in any further debate that's up to you but, you know, you keep replying so I get the impression you're quite happy to discuss your opinion.

Largely, I do think Gerrard's transfers have left something to be desired - although the number of players I've listed as hits seems to roughly fit with most other posters so not sure why you think I'm suggesting Gerrard signs duds and smells.

 

 

My opinions are always right.

[Zander1 180]

22 minutes ago, The Dude said:

We did win the league. Last season. This is a new season and last season's success counts for little if we don't win the title again this season.

Just think how much more money we could've made in Europe if we didn't shit the bed v Malmo.

The 'last season' comment is odd given we're top currently. You make it sound like we're miles behind. There's no reason to think we won't win the league again this year.

 

And just think how much less money we'd have made without some of the brilliant performances we've seen in Europe in recent years.

 

Gerrard inherited a team a million miles behind celtic. He's built an entirely new squad, spending less significantly less than our nearest rivals. We won the league last year without losing a game, are top this year and have, generally, been excellent in Europe. 

 

Pretty clear cut to me.

[Zander1 180]

For comparison, here's Sir Alex's first 42 signings at Man Utd. It's all about opinions, but I'd guess less than half could be regarded as definite 'Hits'.

 

Viv Anderson: £250,000

Brian McClair: £850,000

Mark Hughes: £1.8m

Jim Leighton: £500,000

Lee Sharpe: £200,000

Mal Donaghy: £650,000

Giuliano Maiorana: Undisc

Ralph Milne: £170,000

Mike Phelan: £750,000

Neil Webb: £1.5m

Gary Pallister: £2.3m

Paul Ince: £1m from

Danny Wallace: £1.2

Les Sealey: Undisc

Denis Irwin: £625,000

Neil Whitworth: £45,000

Andrei Kanchelskis: £650,000

Peter Schmeichel: £500,000

Paul Parker: £2m

Pat McGibbon: £100,000

Dion Dublin: £1m

Eric Cantona: £1.2m

Roy Keane: £3.7m

Graeme Tomlinson: Undisc

David May: £1.4m

Andy Cole: £6m

Nick Culkin: £250,000

William Prunier: Free

Raimond van der Gouw: Free

Ronny Johnsen: £1.2m

Tony Coton: £500,000

Karel Poborsky: £3.5m

Jordi Cruyff: £1.3m

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: £1.5m

Teddy Sheringham: £3.5m

Erik Nevland: Nominal

Henning Berg: £5m from Blackburn

Jonathan Greening: £500,000

Jaap Stam: £10.7m

Jesper Blomqvist: £4.4m

Dwight Yorke: £12.6m

Mark Bosnich: Free

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Zander1 said:

The 'last season' comment is odd given we're top currently. You make it sound like we're miles behind. There's no reason to think we won't win the league again this year.

 

And just think how much less money we'd have made without some of the brilliant performances we've seen in Europe in recent years.

 

Gerrard inherited a team a million miles behind celtic. He's built an entirely new squad, spending less significantly less than our nearest rivals. We won the league last year without losing a game, are top this year and have, generally, been excellent in Europe. 

 

Pretty clear cut to me.

No absolutely not. I think we're going to win the title fairly comfortably this season (not as easily as last) but ultimately, last season is over and done with and it's a whole new one.

Totally agree with you on Europe. It's been fantastic in recent years - and I think the entire package (Europe, league, cups) is the only accurate way to measure a manager or player's success and Gerrard's European results have been his most consistent success here.

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

My opinions are always right.

That's my gimmick