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'World Class' - Your definition...


Frankie
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Bit of a spin off from the Hutton poll but since most of us use the term a bit freely occasionally, yet often don't define what we actually mean by it, here's a chance for you to give your thoughts on what you deem it to mean....

I think it can be covered in a few different ways - however, even then this is pretty subjective on the individual poster:

1. A 'World Class' player

A player who could get into a current (or past) world XI for a reasonable amount of time - eg: Maradona would feature in most people's all-time 'WC' XI while Kaka would feature in a current one given his consistent form of the last few years. This could arguably be extended to 22 players for a WC squad?

2. A player with WC attributes

Self-explanatory really but this more general description can be used for more average players who may actually have parts of their game that are worthy of extreme praise - eg: Nakamura may not feature in a WC XI but he is one of the best set-piece takers in the world.

3. A player who occasionally shows WC form

I think this is the least clear ways of defining the phrase. Sometimes at any level of the game a player may show the kind of recent form (or even glimpses) of being able to be one of the world's top players - eg: Alan Hutton has been consistently superb of late so is perhaps moving up towards a WC XI; right down to Bob Malcolm making a fine long pass from time to time.

To conclude, while all the above is a rather empirical argument, it shows how easy it is to label something in an exaggerated way - often in an innocent manner.

Can the likes of Bob Malcolm really be a world-class passer of the ball? Is Alan Hutton one of the two best right backs in world football? Do they deserve such a status?

For me, I'd always go with number 1 above. But even then I think players have to perform at that kind of level for at least 2 or 3 years before they can consider themselves literally world-class.

Am I tougher in my appraisal? Probably but I'll enjoy reading your thoughts on the matter....

:)

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

Sure some players can come up with momentary flashes of World Class football but to have that title the level of performance in those flashes would have to be consistently reproduced game ofter game. It is these players who stand out from the rest and areknown as World Class imo.

With regards to Alan Hutton i would say, not yet. He is well on the way to achieving such a illustrious title but for now he still has to prove that he can stand out from the field EVERY game and not just most games. When he does that he will be a World Class player.

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

Sure some players can come up with momentary flashes of World Class football but to have that title the level of performance in those flashes would have to be consistently reproduced game ofter game. It is these players who stand out from the rest and areknown as World Class imo.

With regards to Alan Hutton i would say, not yet. He is well on the way to achieving such a illustrious title but for now he still has to prove that he can stand out from the field EVERY game and not just most games. When he does that he will be a World Class player.

very well put (tu)

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

Sure some players can come up with momentary flashes of World Class football but to have that title the level of performance in those flashes would have to be consistently reproduced game ofter game. It is these players who stand out from the rest and areknown as World Class imo.

With regards to Alan Hutton i would say, not yet. He is well on the way to achieving such a illustrious title but for now he still has to prove that he can stand out from the field EVERY game and not just most games. When he does that he will be a World Class player.

That seems like a very good definition.

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Interesting post Frankie. I've always thought along the lines of your 1st category. I feel if your a current world class player then you would walk into a world select. Say two players for every position so there's never normally any more than 22-24 world class players around at any one time.

I personally woulldn't put Hutts there yet but if he keeps up his current level of form then he might soon be knocking on the door.

In the light of last nights result the English punters and media would have you believe that there team is packed with world class players where in reality I think they have 1 maybe 2 tops.

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As you say Frankie, there are lots of individual ways of describing WC. For me it would be your no1...

1. A 'World Class' player

A player who could get into a current (or past) world XI for a reasonable amount of time - eg: Maradona would feature in most people's all-time 'WC' XI while Kaka would feature in a current one given his consistent form of the last few years. This could arguably be extended to 22 players for a WC squad?

I also feel that it has to be more flexible in numbers as there are more than 11 WC players in world football so to make up a squad is probably the best idea. In that scenario you'd be looking for the two best players for each position so when it comes to Hutton, are there there two better right backs around at this minute in time? imo there isn't and Hutton would make the squad.

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I also feel that it has to be more flexible in numbers as there are more than 11 WC players in world football so to make up a squad is probably the best idea. In that scenario you'd be looking for the two best players for each position so when it comes to Hutton, are there there two better right backs around at this minute in time? imo there isn't and Hutton would make the squad.

That's probably my line of thinking. However, I think Hutton has to show this form for another season after this one to really be considered better than the likes of Alves or Sagnol.

Obviously that's stricter than some people will be but I guess there are plenty of superlatives other than WC to use... ;)

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I also feel that it has to be more flexible in numbers as there are more than 11 WC players in world football so to make up a squad is probably the best idea. In that scenario you'd be looking for the two best players for each position so when it comes to Hutton, are there there two better right backs around at this minute in time? imo there isn't and Hutton would make the squad.

That's probably my line of thinking. However, I think Hutton has to show this form for another season after this one to really be considered better than the likes of Alves or Sagnol.

Obviously that's stricter than some people will be but I guess there are plenty of superlatives other than WC to use... ;)

If you were team manager, would you pick the guy that was on form a while a go or the one that was on top form just now?

I know my opinion is slightly biased and that in all honesty i don't see much of these other players in action but it'd be good to see a Gers player getting back in a world select! (good on ya Guillit and Coop ;))

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If you were team manager, would you pick the guy that was on form a while a go or the one that was on top form just now?

I know my opinion is slightly biased and that in all honesty i don't see much of these other players in action but it'd be good to see a Gers player getting back in a world select! (good on ya Guillit and Coop ;))

Ah that's a different argument now... Current form over experience and reliability... ;)

FWIW, I'd have Alves ahead of Hutton at right back currently. Next season may change that...!

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If you were team manager, would you pick the guy that was on form a while a go or the one that was on top form just now?

I know my opinion is slightly biased and that in all honesty i don't see much of these other players in action but it'd be good to see a Gers player getting back in a world select! (good on ya Guillit and Coop ;))

Ah that's a different argument now... Current form over experience and reliability... ;)

FWIW, I'd have Alves ahead of Hutton at right back currently. Next season may change that...!

I must admit, i thought that when i was posting it, the arguments and guidlines start to get a bit murky at this point. How long of a good spell does it take to enter the WC phase and how long of a bad spell before you drop back out again?

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I must admit, i thought that when i was posting it, the arguments and guidlines start to get a bit murky at this point. How long of a good spell does it take to enter the WC phase and how long of a bad spell before you drop back out again?

Indeed. Which is why consistency at level must be assured before labelling people world class.

Blue is the Colour probably explains it better but I guess there are various subjective interpretations that are just as accurate.

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

I'm not so sure.

At said highest levels of football, the player would have to really stand out in order to be WC. All players that play in these competitions are excellent footballers, that defintion could describe50 players in this years CL.

WC is used too much these days. Imo, I don't think I could name 20 players that are world class right now.

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

I'm not so sure.

At said highest levels of football, the player would have to really stand out in order to be WC. All players that play in these competitions are excellent footballers, that defintion could describe50 players in this years CL.

WC is used too much these days. Imo, I don't think I could name 20 players that are world class right now.

I disagree. I think that in these major competitions very few players stand out from the rest in most, if not every game. Alot of the time you see players who have an excellent match and then have an indifferent one next time around. The truly World Class players are consistently performing at a level above the rest in a premier competition and these players rightly have the title of World Class.

By this i mean players like Kaka, Ronaldo (Man U) and Messi. These guys are todays World Class players because they stand out in most matches they play in regardless of opposition.

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As you say Frankie, there are lots of individual ways of describing WC. For me it would be your no1...

1. A 'World Class' player

A player who could get into a current (or past) world XI for a reasonable amount of time - eg: Maradona would feature in most people's all-time 'WC' XI while Kaka would feature in a current one given his consistent form of the last few years. This could arguably be extended to 22 players for a WC squad?

I also feel that it has to be more flexible in numbers as there are more than 11 WC players in world football so to make up a squad is probably the best idea. In that scenario you'd be looking for the two best players for each position so when it comes to Hutton, are there there two better right backs around at this minute in time? imo there isn't and Hutton would make the squad.

I agree with that but I think it should be slightly extended to players who would be seriously considered for the squad. After all it's quite possible to have four or five right backs who are very good with little between them (as an example). A bit like they do in picking an initial 40 man squad for the World Cup before whittling it down.

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

Sure some players can come up with momentary flashes of World Class football but to have that title the level of performance in those flashes would have to be consistently reproduced game ofter game. It is these players who stand out from the rest and areknown as World Class imo.

With regards to Alan Hutton i would say, not yet. He is well on the way to achieving such a illustrious title but for now he still has to prove that he can stand out from the field EVERY game and not just most games. When he does that he will be a World Class player.

Spot on IMO

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

Sure some players can come up with momentary flashes of World Class football but to have that title the level of performance in those flashes would have to be consistently reproduced game ofter game. It is these players who stand out from the rest and areknown as World Class imo.

With regards to Alan Hutton i would say, not yet. He is well on the way to achieving such a illustrious title but for now he still has to prove that he can stand out from the field EVERY game and not just most games. When he does that he will be a World Class player.

Spot on IMO

And it covers Hutton 100%.

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Bit of a spin off from the Hutton poll but since most of us use the term a bit freely occasionally, yet often don't define what we actually mean by it, here's a chance for you to give your thoughts on what you deem it to mean....

I think it can be covered in a few different ways - however, even then this is pretty subjective on the individual poster:

1. A 'World Class' player

A player who could get into a current (or past) world XI for a reasonable amount of time - eg: Maradona would feature in most people's all-time 'WC' XI while Kaka would feature in a current one given his consistent form of the last few years. This could arguably be extended to 22 players for a WC squad?

2. A player with WC attributes

Self-explanatory really but this more general description can be used for more average players who may actually have parts of their game that are worthy of extreme praise - eg: Nakamura may not feature in a WC XI but he is one of the best set-piece takers in the world.

3. A player who occasionally shows WC form

I think this is the least clear ways of defining the phrase. Sometimes at any level of the game a player may show the kind of recent form (or even glimpses) of being able to be one of the world's top players - eg: Alan Hutton has been consistently superb of late so is perhaps moving up towards a WC XI; right down to Bob Malcolm making a fine long pass from time to time.

To conclude, while all the above is a rather empirical argument, it shows how easy it is to label something in an exaggerated way - often in an innocent manner.

Can the likes of Bob Malcolm really be a world-class passer of the ball? Is Alan Hutton one of the two best right backs in world football? Do they deserve such a status?

For me, I'd always go with number 1 above. But even then I think players have to perform at that kind of level for at least 2 or 3 years before they can consider themselves literally world-class.

Am I tougher in my appraisal? Probably but I'll enjoy reading your thoughts on the matter....

:)

Decent post and fair in many respects.

My 2p is very simple; it's a player who has proven himself comfortable at the highest levels - Soti was outstanding in CL in 2005/2006 and that's as high as club football gets. I agree he is not as good a defender as Nesta, but in short Nesta is probably the world's best defender. But the low end criteria is to do it at a high level consistently.

As for our mutual chum Bob, no, he is NOT world class. Miles off it. But his passing, ie, an attribute, was, imho. But having a single world class attribute doesn't make you world class because even Nakamura doesn't consistently produce his set pieces either at any level, just sometimes.

In effect, it's an impossible debate.

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I rarely use this expression but when I do I apply a higher bar than even Frankie's definition 1.

It would be an exceptionally talented player, the best in their position, would walk into any team, past or present (possibly kept out by another world classer, but unlikely).

They would perform well regularly at the very highest level.

Very special players.

In my time I'd say Pele, Cruff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, arguably Best, Moore, Ronaldo and maybe Zidane.

Don't watch enough footie to comment much on the current crop. The boy Kaka can play a bit, and wee Ronnie from Barca's pretty good.

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My view of World Class is slightly different. I don't believe there are categories of World Class such as attributes or the like. You either are, or you're not.

To me World Class is being able to compete on the highest stage possible in football (Champions League, International fixtures) while performing on a level above the other competitiors on the field. This must be achieved on a consistent basis to be World Class.

Sure some players can come up with momentary flashes of World Class football but to have that title the level of performance in those flashes would have to be consistently reproduced game ofter game. It is these players who stand out from the rest and areknown as World Class imo.

With regards to Alan Hutton i would say, not yet. He is well on the way to achieving such a illustrious title but for now he still has to prove that he can stand out from the field EVERY game and not just most games. When he does that he will be a World Class player.

I would agree with you, BITC. That's why I favour the World XI approach when talking football. If you were picking a World squad with your first XI and some reserves to make up to the traditional international squad of 21/22. If we were discussing say the 100m then it would be that elite group of 3 or 4 guys who can regularly compete at close to the World Record pace.

Hutton is a great player and has really impressed me this season but is he truly a shoe in for the lone right back spot in a World XI? Not yet, but I hope to see him in that form someday - and in a Rangers jersey.

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