A great picture....

[davidrennie75 0]

was that last weekend? i live in hinshelwood drive anol, prob next door to you

[minstral 5,375]

People are very quick to forget that what we stood for and what we stand for is what makes our club great. We used be a beacon for the common man, somehwere to focus their attention after a hard weeks graft, they came from miles around to see Rangers, sing the songs and be TOGETHER.

Whether there are those among us that deny or would like to deny our club stood for the Scottish Protestant, in reaction to the focus of attention for West of Scotland Catholics, when Celtic were formed. Rangers and Celtic both were very prominent in promoting these differences, because frankly they were very very good for business.

You cannot deny our history, for more than a century Rangers were a focus for the Protestants, there is NOTHING wrong with remembering your roots, your clubs roots. That does not mean being a bigot, the means remembering our own roots, not decrying others.

Exactly, but according to some, they believe it has consequences for our Club and Support. What consequences, I do not know. They just seem to think it's time to move on. I don't know why, it must be some sort of gut feeling or something they feel within themselves?

Let us fucking be. If you don't want to celebrate with us, don't - I couldn't care less. What I do care about is people denouncing others for doing so because they think "it's time to move on".

Because usually 'it's time to move on' = 'we don't give a fuck about what you think, but we haven't a good argument or a scooby about The Club's history'.

I believe my argument was quite well put - you may not like the fact that time moves on, you may not like the fact that the days of Rangers being a Protestant / Unionist club are past, and you may not like the fact that some people associate Football rather than the Protestant or Unionists causes with Rangers. You may belittle these argumments, you may want to stay firmly rooted in YOUR vision of what it was like in the past, and what it should be like now. However there are huge numbers of Rangers fans who have moved on and realised that Rangers is a football club; that we have a proud, successful and glourious football past and that you dont have to be associated with any cuase to be a passionate, committed and loyal Rangers supporter! WATP

how are the days of our protestant support in the past.

[Leiper 0]

People are very quick to forget that what we stood for and what we stand for is what makes our club great. We used be a beacon for the common man, somehwere to focus their attention after a hard weeks graft, they came from miles around to see Rangers, sing the songs and be TOGETHER.

Whether there are those among us that deny or would like to deny our club stood for the Scottish Protestant, in reaction to the focus of attention for West of Scotland Catholics, when Celtic were formed. Rangers and Celtic both were very prominent in promoting these differences, because frankly they were very very good for business.

You cannot deny our history, for more than a century Rangers were a focus for the Protestants, there is NOTHING wrong with remembering your roots, your clubs roots. That does not mean being a bigot, the means remembering our own roots, not decrying others.

Exactly, but according to some, they believe it has consequences for our Club and Support. What consequences, I do not know. They just seem to think it's time to move on. I don't know why, it must be some sort of gut feeling or something they feel within themselves?

Let us fucking be. If you don't want to celebrate with us, don't - I couldn't care less. What I do care about is people denouncing others for doing so because they think "it's time to move on".

Because usually 'it's time to move on' = 'we don't give a fuck about what you think, but we haven't a good argument or a scooby about The Club's history'.

I believe my argument was quite well put - you may not like the fact that time moves on, you may not like the fact that the days of Rangers being a Protestant / Unionist club are past, and you may not like the fact that some people associate Football rather than the Protestant or Unionists causes with Rangers. You may belittle these argumments, you may want to stay firmly rooted in YOUR vision of what it was like in the past, and what it should be like now. However there are huge numbers of Rangers fans who have moved on and realised that Rangers is a football club; that we have a proud, successful and glourious football past and that you dont have to be associated with any cuase to be a passionate, committed and loyal Rangers supporter! WATP

You are absolutely right. We believe that any "fan" who doesn't celebrate the Protestant, British element within our supporter is not as loyal or passionate as us. That is exactly what we think. You are spot on!

[mackerel 0]

You are absolutely right. We believe that any "fan" who doesn't celebrate the Protestant, British element within our supporter is not as loyal or passionate as us. That is exactly what we think. You are spot on!

Go ahead and think that then, doesn't make you right.

[calderbear 0]

People are very quick to forget that what we stood for and what we stand for is what makes our club great. We used be a beacon for the common man, somehwere to focus their attention after a hard weeks graft, they came from miles around to see Rangers, sing the songs and be TOGETHER.

Whether there are those among us that deny or would like to deny our club stood for the Scottish Protestant, in reaction to the focus of attention for West of Scotland Catholics, when Celtic were formed. Rangers and Celtic both were very prominent in promoting these differences, because frankly they were very very good for business.

You cannot deny our history, for more than a century Rangers were a focus for the Protestants, there is NOTHING wrong with remembering your roots, your clubs roots. That does not mean being a bigot, the means remembering our own roots, not decrying others.

Exactly, but according to some, they believe it has consequences for our Club and Support. What consequences, I do not know. They just seem to think it's time to move on. I don't know why, it must be some sort of gut feeling or something they feel within themselves?

Let us ------- be. If you don't want to celebrate with us, don't - I couldn't care less. What I do care about is people denouncing others for doing so because they think "it's time to move on".

Because usually 'it's time to move on' = 'we don't give a ---- about what you think, but we haven't a good argument or a scooby about The Club's history'.

I believe my argument was quite well put - you may not like the fact that time moves on, you may not like the fact that the days of Rangers being a Protestant / Unionist club are past, and you may not like the fact that some people associate Football rather than the Protestant or Unionists causes with Rangers. You may belittle these argumments, you may want to stay firmly rooted in YOUR vision of what it was like in the past, and what it should be like now. However there are huge numbers of Rangers fans who have moved on and realised that Rangers is a football club; that we have a proud, successful and glourious football past and that you dont have to be associated with any cuase to be a passionate, committed and loyal Rangers supporter! WATP

You are absolutely right. We believe that any "fan" who doesn't celebrate the Protestant, British element within our supporter is not as loyal or passionate as us. That is exactly what we think. You are spot on!

But who between you is right?

Personally I think our support should be a broad church that encompasses all views and beliefs; even though I would never choose to celebrate some of these actual beliefs the bottom line is I go to Ibrox to support The Rangers Football Club.

[saintbob1969 1,560]

You are absolutely right. We believe that any "fan" who doesn't celebrate the Protestant, British element within our supporter is not as loyal or passionate as us. That is exactly what we think. You are spot on!

Go ahead and think that then, doesn't make you right.

The mistrustful deceitful creepy small minded people who doubt and question other people's beliefs and conviction and expect us all to follow blindly are the church of Rome, here in Scotland we've had generations of free minded men who can think whatever the f*k they like. I follow Rangers and I don't care quite so much about Loyalism. Unlike over in plastic paddy land where you have to do the dancin and the Up the Ra and the incest and the gingerism and the bottle top glasses and the priests and the midget Oirish shoite. Don't attack fellow bears just because the don't obey some unwritten law.

[Davy 68]

People are very quick to forget that what we stood for and what we stand for is what makes our club great. We used be a beacon for the common man, somehwere to focus their attention after a hard weeks graft, they came from miles around to see Rangers, sing the songs and be TOGETHER.

Whether there are those among us that deny or would like to deny our club stood for the Scottish Protestant, in reaction to the focus of attention for West of Scotland Catholics, when Celtic were formed. Rangers and Celtic both were very prominent in promoting these differences, because frankly they were very very good for business.

You cannot deny our history, for more than a century Rangers were a focus for the Protestants, there is NOTHING wrong with remembering your roots, your clubs roots. That does not mean being a bigot, the means remembering our own roots, not decrying others.

Exactly, but according to some, they believe it has consequences for our Club and Support. What consequences, I do not know. They just seem to think it's time to move on. I don't know why, it must be some sort of gut feeling or something they feel within themselves?

Let us fucking be. If you don't want to celebrate with us, don't - I couldn't care less. What I do care about is people denouncing others for doing so because they think "it's time to move on".

Because usually 'it's time to move on' = 'we don't give a fuck about what you think, but we haven't a good argument or a scooby about The Club's history'.

I believe my argument was quite well put - you may not like the fact that time moves on, you may not like the fact that the days of Rangers being a Protestant / Unionist club are past, and you may not like the fact that some people associate Football rather than the Protestant or Unionists causes with Rangers. You may belittle these argumments, you may want to stay firmly rooted in YOUR vision of what it was like in the past, and what it should be like now. However there are huge numbers of Rangers fans who have moved on and realised that Rangers is a football club; that we have a proud, successful and glourious football past and that you dont have to be associated with any cuase to be a passionate, committed and loyal Rangers supporter! WATP

What harm does it do you if the club maintain it's Protestant and Unionist 'cultures'? What makes you want to 'move on' from that so much?

Unless you hate both Protestantism and Unionism, then why would you want to change it? And they call us the bigots...

And don't give me that shite about Bigotry, because there is a massive difference between pro-Protestant and anti-Catholic.

[mackerel 0]

You are absolutely right. We believe that any "fan" who doesn't celebrate the Protestant, British element within our supporter is not as loyal or passionate as us. That is exactly what we think. You are spot on!

Go ahead and think that then, doesn't make you right.

The mistrustful deceitful creepy small minded people who doubt and question other people's beliefs and conviction and expect us all to follow blindly are the church of Rome, here in Scotland we've had generations of free minded men who can think whatever the f*k they like. I follow Rangers and I don't care quite so much about Loyalism. Unlike over in plastic paddy land where you have to do the dancin and the Up the Ra and the incest and the gingerism and the bottle top glasses and the priests and the midget Oirish shoite. Don't attack fellow bears just because the don't obey some unwritten law.

I agree with you on the first point in bold. The second one, I haven't got a clue what you're on about, who's attacking fellow bears?

[Guest Andypendek]

What harm, Davy asks, does it do me if the club is associated with Unionism and Protestantism? He also says you wouldn't want to change them unless you hate them.

2nd point first, you can want to change something without hating it. Being embarressed (sp?) by it, finding it retrograde, finding it boring, finding it attracts all the wrong sort of people (a la Manchester)...there are many and various reasons I'd like tp drop the associations, but hate is not one of them. I think you are over-estimating the level of hate from the progressive camp - it's not that nasty.

What harm does it do me? Personally, none at all. If someone claims, for example, I am a Nazi (a la Manchester, again) on acocunt of wearing my top I am quite happy to rip them to shreds by debating political issues - after a few minutes they are in no doubt as to my views. However, supporting a club which has ties to things like Prot./Unionism means I am continually presumed to support these things, whereas I really support the football team. So you see that while it doesn't impinge of my every waking moment, it is unfair to have the club tied to these things.

That's not to say you can't be a Rangers man and an Oraneman. It's just to say you can't celebrate your Orangynessability at Ibrox. That to me, seems fair.

Finally, there's no point in skating over this point: for a huge long number of years that I have been going to Ibrox, celebrating Protestant culture at Ibrox has consisted of some folk songs from Ulster, which could be said to have a UK relevance (in that case, why no Scottish ones as well?) and ripping the pish out of the pope and catholocism. Let's not have any pish about fenians being Irish nationalists from the 19thC or whenever - fenian means any catholic who happened on the pitch. So yes, they call you the bigots. I don't think there's anything that bad in ridiculing a ridiculous religion, but I have come to the conclusion that a football match is not the best place to do it.

[Davy 68]

What harm does it do me? Personally, none at all. If someone claims, for example, I am a Nazi (a la Manchester, again) on acocunt of wearing my top I am quite happy to rip them to shreds by debating political issues - after a few minutes they are in no doubt as to my views. However, supporting a club which has ties to things like Prot./Unionism means I am continually presumed to support these things, whereas I really support the football team.

How does Protestantism and Unionism result in you being called a Nazi?

I don't think we should abandon a major part of the clubs background due to ignorant MOPE Tims, who don't have a clue what they're on about.

[Leiper 0]

You are absolutely right. We believe that any "fan" who doesn't celebrate the Protestant, British element within our supporter is not as loyal or passionate as us. That is exactly what we think. You are spot on!

Go ahead and think that then, doesn't make you right.

Sorry, I should have posted a sarcastic smiley with that.

What I was getting at was the fact people like BluePeter9 uses what I have said as their arguement. Apparently the traditionalists look down on those who don't agree with Protestantism or Unionism. Which is totally untrue.

It's really strange how, from the posts in this thread and others, that people can come to that conclusion. Nothing suggests that is the case.

In my opinion it's quite the opposite...On one hand we have fans who wish to celebrate Protestantism and being British whilst accepting that not all fans believe in that, then on the other we have fans who do not accept these two elements with Rangers, but cannot tolerate others having these views.

[AngelDelight 0]

One thing I have never understood - we seem to have a huge amount of political/historical songs relating to religion/history in Ulster/Ireland yet the vast majority of our support is from Scotland - so shouldn't the vast majority of our songs be about religion/history in Scotland?

Is it just that the fans that come over from Ulster tend to be a lot noiser and so give the impression that our support is obsessed with religion/Ireland wheras in reality the vast majority don't give a shit about that stuff? At my school, there are tons of Rangers fans and nobody cares about all this Protestant/Catholic stuff, yet if a neutral read a Rangers forum they would get the impression that our support mainly consists if Irish/Catholic hating extreme religious Protestant fanatics whos lives revolve around relgion and Ireland/Ulster.

I must admit having a fondness for a few other clubs, and when you check their forums you never see any of this religious obsession that some of our fans have, yet these clubs still have huge passionate supports. The level of religious obsession from some our fans borders on the levels you see from Islamic religious fanatics (not the actuall terrorists, just the ones who are obsessed with Islam). I have only been on this forum a week and not a day has gone by without Catholics/Protestants/Orange Walks/Priests/Ireland/Ulster/IRA/UVF etc being constantly mentioned in threads! Do these fans actually really care mainly about football or is their main aim to use Rangers as a vehicle to display their political beliefs and their religious obsessions? Wouldn't a church or a political party be a better vehicle for these beliefs as using a football club for these beliefs will get them nowhere other than being banned from Ibrox, wheras a political party or church may actually help their cause!

[minstral 5,375]

do you know much about our history and i am not being cheeky.

[AngelDelight 0]

do you know much about our history and i am not being cheeky.

I know a lot about our footballing history (1972 etc) as I only care about football to be honest. I can't stand religion and religious fanatics so I have no interest in Rangers religious history as these days it's no longer relevant to modern day football seeing as Rangers are a multi faith club where Protestants/Catholics/Muslims/Jews are all treated equally by the club. I'm just very happy that the club these days is not a Protestant club and is now a multi faith footballing club where all religions/skin colours are welcome.

There is no point in droning on to me about Rangers Protestant/Unionist past etc....I simply don't care and neither do my mates at school as all that stuff is in the past and we only care about the football. We are all big Rangers fans and we are only interested in football and winning trophies etc. None of my pals care about Orange Walks etc....we only care about getting players like Lee McCulloch replaced!

I'm not saying the religious types should be banned or anything, I just feel that they are becoming less and less important as nobody I know from my school has any interest in Rangers Protestant/Unionist history and they only care about going to Ibrox with their dads to watch the football and hopefully get 3 points on the card.

[minstral 5,375]

do you know much about our history and i am not being cheeky.

I know a lot about our footballing history as I only care about football to be honest. I can't stand religion and religious fanatics so I have no interest in Rangers religious history as these days it's no longer relevant to modern day football seeing as Rangers are a multi faith club where Protestants/Catholics/Muslims/Jews are all treated equally by the club. I'm just very happy that the club these days is not a Protestant club and is now a multi faith footballing club where all religions/skin colours are welcome.

There is no point in droning on to me about Rangers Protestant/Unionist past etc....I simply don't care and neither do my mates at school as all that stuff is in the past and we only care about the football. We are all big Rangers fans and we are only interested in football and winning trophies etc. None of my pals care about Orange Walks etc....we only care about getting players like Lee McCulloch replaced!

I'm not saying the religious types should be banned or anything, I just feel that they are becoming less and less important as nobody I know from my school has any interest in Rangers Protestant/Unionist history and they only care about going to Ibrox with their dads to watch the football and hopefully get 3 points on the card.

i know you guys dont want anything to do with religion, but thousands of our fans still class the club as protestant, as did our fathers and grandfathers, who gave so much to help our club become one of the biggest in the world. you young guys can do what you like and that is up to you, but i am afraid our club will always be known as a protestant club, and yes we welcome all religions, and thats the way it should be. as becoming less important what songs do you hear getting sung the loudest at our games.

[Jimenez 1]

Rangers are a broad church open to all religions except protestantism.

This is the 21st century

[AngelDelight 0]

but i am afraid our club will always be known as a protestant club

To you yes, but to others no. At games at Ibrox 'follow follow' is always the loudest. I don't go to away games as my dad says there are too many anti Catholic morons at away games and it's not the sort of environment that a young fan should be brought up in. I'm sure the away support is the most fanatical, but they are still a minority compared to the hundreds of thousands of Rangers fans who don't go to away games.

Anyway, what's the problem?.....nobody is saying the old religious fans shouldn't go to games, i'm just saying that each year they seem to be less and less important. Certainly at Ibrox this is the case as I know a few Catholic Rangers fans and their fathers state they would never have let their sons go to Ibrox 20 years ago but now that Rangers have cleaned up Ibrox their fathers are happy for them to support Rangers at Ibrox.

Got to go now, I have Pro Evo tournament to attend!

[Jimenez 1]

but i am afraid our club will always be known as a protestant club

To you yes, but to others no. At games at Ibrox 'follow follow' is always the loudest. I don't go to away games as my dad says there are too many anti Catholic morons at away games and it's not the sort of environment that a young fan should be brought up in. I'm sure the away support is the most fanatical, but they are still a minority compared to the hundreds of thousands of Rangers fans who don't go to away games.

Anyway, what's the problem?.....nobody is saying the old religious fans shouldn't go to games, i'm just saying that each year they seem to be less and less important. Certainly at Ibrox this is the case as I know a few Catholic Rangers fans and their fathers state they would never have let their sons go to Ibrox 20 years ago but now that Rangers have cleaned up Ibrox their fathers are happy for them to support Rangers at Ibrox.

What age are you?

You seem pretty articulate so I'm going to assume you have survived puberty.

Did your old man help you through it?

[excoriate 0]

That has nothing to do with Rangers, and in my opinion it can only harm the club.

:unionflag:

:drunksasdsa: :drunksasdsa: partay partay partay :crabflute2: :crabflute2: :crabdrum: :crabflag:

[ChrisVanDarche 23]

Usual muck raking shit by the dinasors (spelling) within the support. WTF has this got to do with football or Rangers other that some wishful thinking by a handful of stuck in the past regressionists. Time to move on lads, realise that the club is dissassociated from this nonsence and get on with what it should be all about - FOOTBALL!

[minstral 5,375]

but i am afraid our club will always be known as a protestant club

To you yes, but to others no. At games at Ibrox 'follow follow' is always the loudest. I don't go to away games as my dad says there are too many anti Catholic morons at away games and it's not the sort of environment that a young fan should be brought up in. I'm sure the away support is the most fanatical, but they are still a minority compared to the hundreds of thousands of Rangers fans who don't go to away games.

Anyway, what's the problem?.....nobody is saying the old religious fans shouldn't go to games, i'm just saying that each year they seem to be less and less important. Certainly at Ibrox this is the case as I know a few Catholic Rangers fans and their fathers state they would never have let their sons go to Ibrox 20 years ago but now that Rangers have cleaned up Ibrox their fathers are happy for them to support Rangers at Ibrox.

Got to go now, I have Pro Evo tournament to attend!

i was trying to be gentle, but to say things like anti catholic morons is a bit suss, i take it that you have never heard derrys walls or the sash at ibrox. what i will say is that you are not the age you say you are, or someone is telling you what to post. also when you say all religions welcome at ibrox you forgot to say as long as its not protestant.

[Davy 68]

I don't go to away games as my dad says there are too many anti Catholic morons at away games and it's not the sort of environment that a young fan should be brought up in.

What age are you mate?

[Jimenez 1]

Usual muck raking shit by the dinasors (spelling) within the support. WTF has this got to do with football or Rangers other that some wishful thinking by a handful of stuck in the past regressionists. Time to move on lads, realise that the club is dissassociated from this nonsence and get on with what it should be all about - FOOTBALL!

What are you agreeing with?

BluePeter9 is a fucking bigot (yep, I'm going to start using it too)

He has a poisinous hatred for all things protetestantism.

[disgruntled_bear 157]

I don't go to away games as my dad says there are too many anti Catholic morons at away games and it's not the sort of environment that a young fan should be brought up in.

What age are you mate?

I take it he wasn't allowed to go to Manchester

[Davy 68]

I don't go to away games as my dad says there are too many anti Catholic morons at away games and it's not the sort of environment that a young fan should be brought up in.

What age are you mate?

I take it he wasn't allowed to go to Manchester

Past his bed time...