Rangers and the code

[Eric_Caldow 60]

A true bear is born a bear and brought up a bear and goes to the bears as much as is possible.

Someone who happens to go along when they are 12 or whatever is not in my eyes a true bear because they have not had it drilled into them from day 1.

I'm sorry if some of you can't deal with this but it's how I feel. I'm proud of my upbringing and if you've had it youll know what i'm on about.

Thought the 1st post in this topic was bang on.

You see, to me this is the kind of post that makes people think we're all nutters.

"A true bear is born a bear and brought up a bear and goes to the bears as much as is possible."

This is just nonsense. Are you honestly trying to tell us that, by your weird logic, John Greig isn't a Bear because he was brought up as a Hearts fan?

Come on now, we're all Rangers fans on here and many of us will be able to say that we've been to see the Gers so many times more than others. However this doesn't make us better fans. Maybe more affluent fans but certainly not better.

....and in my experience if you try and drill something into children constantly they end up rebelling against it.

[Ibroxblue 122]

As it happens I fit the definition of a "true bear" but the notion that someone who didn't start supporting Rangers until he was 12 (or 22 or whatever) isn't a real fan is absurd.

Incidentally, I notice a few folk use that "born, not manufactured" thing.

For example, Evertonians:

http://www.toffeeandtayto.com/ShareholdersAssociation.htm

Greeks:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thre...vasion+of+Iraq-

Ski tuners (whatever they are! )

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22453

[scott316 2]

The article has a simple but strong message. It's a comparison between people like us who have been born into Rangers, it gives us identity and an affinity within a culture and a way of life. David Murray does not have this affinity we have as he "bought" himself into Rangers. There is no price on having an affinity with Rangers, it becomes a part of who you are from when you are born into a family heritage, culture. And to be undermined by the media and government for having this belief which has been traditionalised for thousands of years is ridiculous; because it may offend "other" groups is total hypocrisy.

Yes, you may be considered a "true" fan from a late age, but what has been going on since then ? A Hibs fan, a Celtic fan; then change your mind ? This doesn't constitue a true fan to me, because the person simply does not know who they are. I in no way could support another team, if Rangers FC ever died, so would my desire to watch football as I could never bring myself to say i was a supporter of another club. If asked, I would always say I was a Rangers man. The club and it's traditions are steeped in my heritage and that will never change, and those beliefs will be passed on.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

"There is no price on having an affinity with Rangers, it becomes a part of who you are"

Yep Scotty... you have definetly got hold of where I was coming from.

[minstral 5,375]

The article has a simple but strong message. It's a comparison between people like us who have been born into Rangers, it gives us identity and an affinity within a culture and a way of life. David Murray does not have this affinity we have as he "bought" himself into Rangers. There is no price on having an affinity with Rangers, it becomes a part of who you are from when you are born into a family heritage, culture. And to be undermined by the media and government for having this belief which has been traditionalised for thousands of years is ridiculous; because it may offend "other" groups is total hypocrisy.

Yes, you may be considered a "true" fan from a late age, but what has been going on since then ? A Hibs fan, a Celtic fan; then change your mind ? This doesn't constitue a true fan to me, because the person simply does not know who they are. I in no way could support another team, if Rangers FC ever died, so would my desire to watch football as I could never bring myself to say i was a supporter of another club. If asked, I would always say I was a Rangers man. The club and it's traditions are steeped in my heritage and that will never change, and those beliefs will be passed on.

very good post.

[Albahighlander 0]

An excellent post D'Artagnan

You have touched the feelings of what many of us experience about The Rangers.

Unfortunately many have misunderstood what you are saying and indeed have focussed on what THEY THINK YOU ARE SAYING which actually you don't.

The old debate on intelligence asks whether it is heredity or environment which defines it. It is the same with your concept of 'a Bear'.

I am not sure if I would define that person you describe as 'a Bear', I would rather go for 'a Rangers man' or even 'a Bluenose'. But it is not the title, but the sense of what you mean that is important.

You and I know are acutely aware that we have differing views on SDM over the piece (though not in recent weeks) but we are agreed on the fact that he is not a Bear or a Rangers man. I have no doubt he has become a supporter of the club, how could he fail to be, but he is not a Rangers man.

I believe that there are also some who follow the club who are supporters but not 'Rangers men'. Now I do not mean to diminish in any way their support for the team or the club, or to suggest that being a 'Rangers man' or as you say ' a Bear' makes you a better supporter - it doesn't. But 'a Rangers man' does I believe as you suggest have a unique identity shaped by birth and environment. I would not necessarily agree that those who don't understand it don't matter, but I do agree that there are those who do not understand it.

It is not about elitism, it is not about hating Catholics, but it does indeed having a sense and an awareness of values, traditions and loyalties which reflected the protestant/christian values of many of those who established our club as what you call an institution .

There will be supporters of many clubs across the world who are born 'a Bradford man', 'a Grasshoppers man', 'a Dukla man', 'a Hapeol Tel Aviv man' and they will have their own unique sense of identity.

But I suspect what defines them as 'a Bradford man' etc. doesnot have the complete intensity of what you describe as 'a Bear'

When yolu talk about the 'The Rangers Way' and then you say 'The Celtic Way' the gap in the two visions and concepts illustrates much of what you are alluding to.

Where you are absolutely right is that those who understand need no explanation.

[Ace 3,556]

I understand the emotions behind the initial post and i applaud the erudite manner in which it was written.

However, further replies backing up the original certainly annoy me in that they presume to define what a Rangers fan is.

In my formative years i was a Celtic fan, i remember this clearly, i had no memorabilia or strips as me or my family had no oney to purchase them but i just remember liking them in the way that a young child liked football.

One day i was presented a flag from a neighbour on my close, it was a treble winning flag for Rangers, i can categorically say that from that day to now i have been a Rangers fan.

My ardour for Rangers has grown as my age has grown, my understanding of supporting a team has grown in that time and my allegiance to the club has grown in that time also.

I would argue with anyone who says i am not a True Rangers fan, i have the strips, i have (or had) a season ticket, i have supported my team in both domestic & european competitions ... essentially i back my team both vocally & financially and i believe that is all that is required of a "True" Rangers fan.

My family have no footballing alleigiances, my father supported Aston Villa but never liked any Scottish Team, my mother didn't care. My brother couldn't explain the offside rule if his life depended on it so i had no-one to "guide" me (as people seem to need).

If someone wishes to explain to me why i am NOT a rangers fan .... please do !!

[minstral 5,375]

I understand the emotions behind the initial post and i applaud the erudite manner in which it was written.

However, further replies backing up the original certainly annoy me in that they presume to define what a Rangers fan is.

In my formative years i was a Celtic fan, i remember this clearly, i had no memorabilia or strips as me or my family had no oney to purchase them but i just remember liking them in the way that a young child liked football.

One day i was presented a flag from a neighbour on my close, it was a treble winning flag for Rangers, i can categorically say that from that day to now i have been a Rangers fan.

My ardour for Rangers has grown as my age has grown, my understanding of supporting a team has grown in that time and my allegiance to the club has grown in that time also.

I would argue with anyone who says i am not a True Rangers fan, i have the strips, i have (or had) a season ticket, i have supported my team in both domestic & european competitions ... essentially i back my team both vocally & financially and i believe that is all that is required of a "True" Rangers fan.

My family have no footballing alleigiances, my father supported Aston Villa but never liked any Scottish Team, my mother didn't care. My brother couldn't explain the offside rule if his life depended on it so i had no-one to "guide" me (as people seem to need).

If someone wishes to explain to me why i am NOT a rangers fan .... please do !!

no way can you change from supporting celtic to rangers you just about admitted you were a glory hunter.you just dont jump ship if celtic was your team you should have stayed with them a club is for life, not just for xmas.

[Leiper 0]

I understand the emotions behind the initial post and i applaud the erudite manner in which it was written.

However, further replies backing up the original certainly annoy me in that they presume to define what a Rangers fan is.

In my formative years i was a Celtic fan, i remember this clearly, i had no memorabilia or strips as me or my family had no oney to purchase them but i just remember liking them in the way that a young child liked football.

One day i was presented a flag from a neighbour on my close, it was a treble winning flag for Rangers, i can categorically say that from that day to now i have been a Rangers fan.

My ardour for Rangers has grown as my age has grown, my understanding of supporting a team has grown in that time and my allegiance to the club has grown in that time also.

I would argue with anyone who says i am not a True Rangers fan, i have the strips, i have (or had) a season ticket, i have supported my team in both domestic & european competitions ... essentially i back my team both vocally & financially and i believe that is all that is required of a "True" Rangers fan.

My family have no footballing alleigiances, my father supported Aston Villa but never liked any Scottish Team, my mother didn't care. My brother couldn't explain the offside rule if his life depended on it so i had no-one to "guide" me (as people seem to need).

If someone wishes to explain to me why i am NOT a rangers fan .... please do !!

Well I certainly won't criticise you. I personally wouldn't have "jumped ship" as some have put it, but then I grew up in a different background.

Although my mother was a celtic supporter, she wasn't celtic crazy, like my father was Rangers crazy.

[minstral 5,375]

I understand the emotions behind the initial post and i applaud the erudite manner in which it was written.

However, further replies backing up the original certainly annoy me in that they presume to define what a Rangers fan is.

In my formative years i was a Celtic fan, i remember this clearly, i had no memorabilia or strips as me or my family had no oney to purchase them but i just remember liking them in the way that a young child liked football.

One day i was presented a flag from a neighbour on my close, it was a treble winning flag for Rangers, i can categorically say that from that day to now i have been a Rangers fan.

My ardour for Rangers has grown as my age has grown, my understanding of supporting a team has grown in that time and my allegiance to the club has grown in that time also.

I would argue with anyone who says i am not a True Rangers fan, i have the strips, i have (or had) a season ticket, i have supported my team in both domestic & european competitions ... essentially i back my team both vocally & financially and i believe that is all that is required of a "True" Rangers fan.

My family have no footballing alleigiances, my father supported Aston Villa but never liked any Scottish Team, my mother didn't care. My brother couldn't explain the offside rule if his life depended on it so i had no-one to "guide" me (as people seem to need).

If someone wishes to explain to me why i am NOT a rangers fan .... please do !!

Well I certainly won't criticise you. I personally wouldn't have "jumped ship" as some have put it, but then I grew up in a different background.

Although my mother was a celtic supporter, she wasn't celtic crazy, like my father was Rangers crazy.

there is nothing wrong with that lots of familys support two seperate clubs, but i could not imagine changing clubs.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

Well BIC you may be surprised but I am going to agree with you...

You are slightly confused.?

You tell me in one line "Rangers are my religion, as i worship them and nothing else"

But then you feel it appropriate to tell me...

"As hard as it may seem there is more to life than Rangers, you should start looking for it."

Somewhat contradictory would you not agree ?

"but you say that this is not an Anti-DM thread. So why have you spent most of it saying that he is not a true Ranger and does not know what it means to be one?"

I think you over exaggerating stating that most of the post is spent stating SDM is not a Bear...at the very most the first quarter deals with a factual incident involving the chairman...and how he had to be corrected regarding his conduct to a Rangers supporter.

No it is not contradictory D'Artagnan and your response kind of shows how you are as a person. Yes, Rangers are my religion and the reason for that is because i treat Rangers the same way as most moderate Reiligios people treat their respective faiths. I go to my "church" (Ibrox) at the weekend and sing my "hymns" (Gers songs) and treat the players as my "spiritual leaders". That is why i called it my religion because the way i feel about Rangers is likened to someone following a religion.

But for you to say that following a religion but there being more to life than that religion is hypocritical suggests to me that you maybe take your religion a little to seriously, my friend. Religion is a personal view that you have on the world but it is not the be all and end all. Most moderate Christians and Muslims alike would agree with that. You still have to work, learn, enjoy life and meet new people with different views from your own.

Having a religion yet having a life outside that religion is not hypocritical and quite frankly i find it rather worrying you think that way.

[bauba30 1]

Rangers Man

What on earth is a Rangers man - to me, whenever I hear that phrase there are always Religious ideals attached to the extent where the latter is of more importance than the former.

And again, we are back to the religion in football debate. Which has been done on here and in many other forums to death.

We have to ask ourselves, what is our identity as a football club? - is it Alan Morton, Davie Meiklejohn, Geordie Young, Jim Baxter etc or is it ancient ideals from an ancient time

I left the RSC in Detroit because of this nonsense and IMO opinion it is the clinging on to of these ancient ideals (by the minority it has to be said) that is slowly killing this club.

If these ideals are so important to this minority and it is essential to them that it must be expressed through a football team??????? then why nto create their own team, write their own articles and leave Rangers to what i consider to be true Rangers supporters

For IMHO, a TRUE Rangers supporter puts the 11 on the park before everyting else at that time.

[bauba30 1]

As for changing clubs as a supporter, Scotty has got a warped sense of something or other. The lad that talked about changing from Celtic to Rangers was a child when he switched, he hadnt formed anything

But he should have known better etc etc - no, when you are a child, you dont know squat about anything mate

My younger brother was a Sheep fan in the 80s, he was born in 1976, so do the math - the rest of the family, who are all Rangers daft, bought him all the Aberdeen gear - he was about 5 when he started. Around 8 or 9 he started to change, slowly at first, then by the time he was 10 he was a Rangers fan - has been ever since, and now spends whatever spare money he has on a season ticket and transport to the games and back.

Is he less of a fan than one who from the age where he could walk and talk was told by his father that he had to be a Rangers fan, who was told of the ancint "traditions" associated with the club and had both drummed to him for years?

IMO, my brother is a far greater fan, the other was indoctrined, had no free will in the process. Whereas my brother took a clear choice that no, he would'nt support the dominant team of the time, he would be a Rangers fan and stick with them through thick and thin.

And as an asides, the type of fan that my brother is is far less likely to be a bigot and embarrass our great club than the first example is

All in my opinion of course

[Ayebrox 0]

The lad that talked about changing from Celtic to Rangers was a child when he switched, he hadnt formed anything

But he should have known better etc etc - no, when you are a child, you dont know squat about anything mate

Agreed

[Eric_Caldow 60]

As for changing clubs as a supporter, Scotty has got a warped sense of something or other.  The lad that talked about changing from Celtic to Rangers was a child when he switched, he hadnt formed anything

But he should have known better etc etc - no, when you are a child, you dont know squat  about anything mate

My younger brother was a Sheep fan in the 80s, he was born in 1976, so do the math - the rest of the family, who are all Rangers daft, bought him all the Aberdeen gear - he was about 5 when he started.  Around 8 or 9 he started to change, slowly at first, then by the time he was 10 he was a Rangers fan - has been ever since, and now spends whatever spare money he has on a season ticket and transport to the games and back. 

Is he less of a fan than one who from the age where he could walk and talk was told by his father that he had to be a Rangers fan, who was told of the ancint "traditions" associated with the club and had both drummed to him for years? 

IMO, my brother is a far greater fan, the other was indoctrined, had no free will in the process.  Whereas my brother took a clear choice that no, he would'nt support the dominant team of the time, he would be a Rangers fan and stick with them through thick and thin. 

And as an asides, the type of fan that my brother is is far less likely to be a bigot and embarrass our great club than the first example is

All in my opinion of course

Best post of the week in my opinion.

Say hi to your brother from me as well.

[bauba30 1]

Cheers Eric, will do

[minstral 5,375]

if you start changing your team then in my eyes your not a true supporter i dont care what you say.

[Eric_Caldow 60]

if you start changing your team then in my eyes your not a true supporter i dont care what you say.

Even if it's a five year old?

[bauba30 1]

so if you are 7 years old and you change your team, but then support them for the next 30 years, buying season tickets when you are old enough, then you are not a true supporter?

Yet the one who is indoctrined by his father from the age of 2 and who never makes a conscious decision to follow the team is a true supporter?

strange

[minstral 5,375]

if you start changing your team then in my eyes your not a true supporter i dont care what you say.

Even if it's a five year old?

yes even 5 year old i knew the words of follow follow at 5 year old.

[Gowser 0]

if you start changing your team then in my eyes your not a true supporter i dont care what you say.

Basically, what you're suggesting is having it drummed into you from an early age is the right way, the proper way. Is that not the same sort of thing people complain about with Catholic schools where religion is forced upon them without choice.

I thought that in this day and age we lived in a free world, with freedom of choice.

So what you are saying is that if we drum enough shit into kids heads we can control them?

FFS

[Gowser 0]

so if you are 7 years old and you change your team, but then support them for the next 30 years, buying season tickets when you are old enough, then you are not a true supporter?

Yet the one who is indoctrined by his father from the age of 2 and who never makes a conscious decision to follow the team is a true supporter?

strange

Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.

[minstral 5,375]

you may as well just pick a team thats doing well and then when they hit a bad spell pick another team.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

yes even 5 year old i knew the words of follow follow at 5 year old.

Missing the point spectacularly. It is a completely different thing knowing the words to a song and making a mature decision on the club you want to support. I am much like you, i was brought up by a strong Rangers supporting family but when i was old enough i did ask myself if this was really the club i wanted to support. My decision is obvious. And from then on i have never looked back.

But am i not a real fan for even contemplating changing my club? I also support Arsenal. Am i not a real fan because Rangers are not my only team (bearing in mind Arsenal are my second team)?

I don't understand the point of your argument. To me it seems that a "true" Rangers fan would be the one who sits down and makes the decision for themselves that this is the club they want to support rather than blindly following what you have been taught from a young age. Difference being that one has thought about the prospect of supporting another club but in the end values Rangers higher than the rest. The other has never made the choice in the first place so cannot say they are more of a fan than the other.

We are all Rangers fans no matter who we are, where our roots lie, or how we came to be Rangers fans. Fact is that we all love our club and that is what binds us together. We should start thinking about what we share rather than what our differences are. We are as one and

WE ARE THE PEOPLE

[bauba30 1]

if you start changing your team then in my eyes your not a true supporter i dont care what you say.

Even if it's a five year old?

yes even 5 year old i knew the words of follow follow at 5 year old.

and what other conscious decisions were you making at this young age?