union jacks

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I am dissapointed to see so many members who would object to flying the flag of our Union. Fair enough, if you don't want the Union to last then that is you rview and you can express it at the next election. But you should fly it out of respect of all the brave men and women who fought and died over the centuries to protect the values, the shores and the people of this great nation. Be they Scottish or English, Welsh or Irish it didn't matter a jot to them as they were all British and fighting as one.

And to all the brave soldiers who are still fighting and dying this minute overseas to defend this country. Who cares how the Act of Union came about. What should be acknowledged is what came after that. How we all evolved to live together and to become one leading to our ultimate success in the world. I myself, am proud to be British but also glad to live in Scotland. I love both but even if you don't i see no reason why you shouldn't remember the glory and sacrifice of our forefathers.

Be proud to be British and be proud to be Scottish. You don't have to be one or the other.

Excuse me Blue, this is a serious question. What does flying the Union Flag at a football game have to do with the brave men and women who have died in armed conflict? I mean, I agreen we should never forget them, but what does waving a Union Flag at a Rangers game have to do with them?

Sorry i didn't reply. I haven't been on.

On answer to your question i think about why we should fly the Union Flag i will say this. Do you have a problem with any other football club flying the flag of their nation? I don't. We should fly the Union Flag at Ibrox as we have done for over a century because we are proud to live in this country and we want to show it. That is the reason.

And as for what Rangers have to do with the men and women who died for our country i ask you this. Do you not think that on the year we commemorate 300 years of Union that it is only fair that we remember all those who fought to keep it that way? And if we are going to commemorate the Act of Union then we should be doing it in their name and for their sake. After all, if they hadn't given their lives on the battlefield the chances are that we would be under fascist rule and therefore there would be no Rangers. We should be thankful to all those who fought under the same flag that we will fly against Hapoel Te-Aviv and will continue to fly. That is why the Union Flag is important to us. We are proud of our nation and therefore hold the right to show it.

We are thankful, and we rememeber and commemorate the fallen every day - but if John Smith is a patriotic Scot, doesnt believe in the union and so refuses to fly his flag, that doesnt mean he is pooping on the memory of the fallen. This is supposed to be a celebration of the Union, which is a political statement in itself, if it is left at that and the individuals have their own freedom of choice whether to participate or not, then I am fine with that.

I just wish we would stay out of politics, religion, and all the other malarky and get back to football.

You cannot keep politics out of football because football has always had it's links to the politics of the time. To you the Union may just seem like a poltical statement and fair enough, but to me it is more than that. To me it shows just how great this country is that we can hold together a Union for 300 years after such turbulent and bloody times before it. It is an honour for me to be a part of it and that is why i want to fly the Union Flag and would be proud to do so.

Don't get me wrong though, i love being Scottish and i don't wish that i was anything other than Scottish but i am also British and people forget nowadays that you can be proud to be both. Too many people have been sucked in by the argument that if you are proud to be British then you are not Scottish. That is crap.

[bauba30 1]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

Fair enough Bauba. I studied WW2 and i am fascinated by it.

Do you really think you could take Hitler's word for it though? He wanted to control all of Europe so that Germany could have "living space". :wacko:

Getting off the topic though.

[bauba30 1]

I am dissapointed to see so many members who would object to flying the flag of our Union. Fair enough, if you don't want the Union to last then that is you rview and you can express it at the next election. But you should fly it out of respect of all the brave men and women who fought and died over the centuries to protect the values, the shores and the people of this great nation. Be they Scottish or English, Welsh or Irish it didn't matter a jot to them as they were all British and fighting as one.

And to all the brave soldiers who are still fighting and dying this minute overseas to defend this country. Who cares how the Act of Union came about. What should be acknowledged is what came after that. How we all evolved to live together and to become one leading to our ultimate success in the world. I myself, am proud to be British but also glad to live in Scotland. I love both but even if you don't i see no reason why you shouldn't remember the glory and sacrifice of our forefathers.

Be proud to be British and be proud to be Scottish. You don't have to be one or the other.

Excuse me Blue, this is a serious question. What does flying the Union Flag at a football game have to do with the brave men and women who have died in armed conflict? I mean, I agreen we should never forget them, but what does waving a Union Flag at a Rangers game have to do with them?

Sorry i didn't reply. I haven't been on.

On answer to your question i think about why we should fly the Union Flag i will say this. Do you have a problem with any other football club flying the flag of their nation? I don't. We should fly the Union Flag at Ibrox as we have done for over a century because we are proud to live in this country and we want to show it. That is the reason.

And as for what Rangers have to do with the men and women who died for our country i ask you this. Do you not think that on the year we commemorate 300 years of Union that it is only fair that we remember all those who fought to keep it that way? And if we are going to commemorate the Act of Union then we should be doing it in their name and for their sake. After all, if they hadn't given their lives on the battlefield the chances are that we would be under fascist rule and therefore there would be no Rangers. We should be thankful to all those who fought under the same flag that we will fly against Hapoel Te-Aviv and will continue to fly. That is why the Union Flag is important to us. We are proud of our nation and therefore hold the right to show it.

We are thankful, and we rememeber and commemorate the fallen every day - but if John Smith is a patriotic Scot, doesnt believe in the union and so refuses to fly his flag, that doesnt mean he is pooping on the memory of the fallen. This is supposed to be a celebration of the Union, which is a political statement in itself, if it is left at that and the individuals have their own freedom of choice whether to participate or not, then I am fine with that.

I just wish we would stay out of politics, religion, and all the other malarky and get back to football.

You cannot keep politics out of football because football has always had it's links to the politics of the time. To you the Union may just seem like a poltical statement and fair enough, but to me it is more than that. To me it shows just how great this country is that we can hold together a Union for 300 years after such turbulent and bloody times before it. It is an honour for me to be a part of it and that is why i want to fly the Union Flag and would be proud to do so.

Don't get me wrong though, i love being Scottish and i don't wish that i was anything other than Scottish but i am also British and people forget nowadays that you can be proud to be both. Too many people have been sucked in by the argument that if you are proud to be British then you are not Scottish. That is crap.

When I say politics, I mean that I am uncomfrtable with my football club taking a stance on any political issue. This I feel will be dodgy at the next elections when the nationalists are pushing for a vote strong enough to be able to push through a referendum on independance. If that happens, then I can see divisions occurring within our club and our fans. I would rather we stay out of it as a club - now as for individual fans, to me, they can do what they like as long as it is respectful to others of differing viewpoints and it doesnt get the club into bother

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I am dissapointed to see so many members who would object to flying the flag of our Union. Fair enough, if you don't want the Union to last then that is you rview and you can express it at the next election. But you should fly it out of respect of all the brave men and women who fought and died over the centuries to protect the values, the shores and the people of this great nation. Be they Scottish or English, Welsh or Irish it didn't matter a jot to them as they were all British and fighting as one.

And to all the brave soldiers who are still fighting and dying this minute overseas to defend this country. Who cares how the Act of Union came about. What should be acknowledged is what came after that. How we all evolved to live together and to become one leading to our ultimate success in the world. I myself, am proud to be British but also glad to live in Scotland. I love both but even if you don't i see no reason why you shouldn't remember the glory and sacrifice of our forefathers.

Be proud to be British and be proud to be Scottish. You don't have to be one or the other.

Excuse me Blue, this is a serious question. What does flying the Union Flag at a football game have to do with the brave men and women who have died in armed conflict? I mean, I agreen we should never forget them, but what does waving a Union Flag at a Rangers game have to do with them?

Sorry i didn't reply. I haven't been on.

On answer to your question i think about why we should fly the Union Flag i will say this. Do you have a problem with any other football club flying the flag of their nation? I don't. We should fly the Union Flag at Ibrox as we have done for over a century because we are proud to live in this country and we want to show it. That is the reason.

And as for what Rangers have to do with the men and women who died for our country i ask you this. Do you not think that on the year we commemorate 300 years of Union that it is only fair that we remember all those who fought to keep it that way? And if we are going to commemorate the Act of Union then we should be doing it in their name and for their sake. After all, if they hadn't given their lives on the battlefield the chances are that we would be under fascist rule and therefore there would be no Rangers. We should be thankful to all those who fought under the same flag that we will fly against Hapoel Te-Aviv and will continue to fly. That is why the Union Flag is important to us. We are proud of our nation and therefore hold the right to show it.

We are thankful, and we rememeber and commemorate the fallen every day - but if John Smith is a patriotic Scot, doesnt believe in the union and so refuses to fly his flag, that doesnt mean he is pooping on the memory of the fallen. This is supposed to be a celebration of the Union, which is a political statement in itself, if it is left at that and the individuals have their own freedom of choice whether to participate or not, then I am fine with that.

I just wish we would stay out of politics, religion, and all the other malarky and get back to football.

You cannot keep politics out of football because football has always had it's links to the politics of the time. To you the Union may just seem like a poltical statement and fair enough, but to me it is more than that. To me it shows just how great this country is that we can hold together a Union for 300 years after such turbulent and bloody times before it. It is an honour for me to be a part of it and that is why i want to fly the Union Flag and would be proud to do so.

Don't get me wrong though, i love being Scottish and i don't wish that i was anything other than Scottish but i am also British and people forget nowadays that you can be proud to be both. Too many people have been sucked in by the argument that if you are proud to be British then you are not Scottish. That is crap.

When I say politics, I mean that I am uncomfrtable with my football club taking a stance on any political issue. This I feel will be dodgy at the next elections when the nationalists are pushing for a vote strong enough to be able to push through a referendum on independance. If that happens, then I can see divisions occurring within our club and our fans. I would rather we stay out of it as a club - now as for individual fans, to me, they can do what they like as long as it is respectful to others of differing viewpoints and it doesnt get the club into bother

I think that is why it is important that we are flying both the Saltire and the Union Flag. So that all fans can feel proud and get involved regardless of their political persuasion. I don't like football clubs taking political stances either but a club like ours has had politics written all over it from the beginning and that would be very hard to remove if not impossible.

[bauba30 1]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

Fair enough Bauba. I studied WW2 and i am fascinated by it.

Do you really think you could take Hitler's word for it though? He wanted to control all of Europe so that Germany could have "living space". :wacko:

Getting off the topic though.

its a toughie, but I think its backed up by his actions too - the way he backed off in 1939 at Dunkirk, removing his tanks from the chase to Dunkirk - that would make perfect sense. Plus his main stroke was always intended for Russia - he really valued the vast real estate in that country and despised communism. So as much as we know that his word was hardly his bond, these is a strong case that in thsi instance, he really wanted England on good terms. In fact, he called the English - our brothers lol!

Amazing really

[bauba30 1]

I am dissapointed to see so many members who would object to flying the flag of our Union. Fair enough, if you don't want the Union to last then that is you rview and you can express it at the next election. But you should fly it out of respect of all the brave men and women who fought and died over the centuries to protect the values, the shores and the people of this great nation. Be they Scottish or English, Welsh or Irish it didn't matter a jot to them as they were all British and fighting as one.

And to all the brave soldiers who are still fighting and dying this minute overseas to defend this country. Who cares how the Act of Union came about. What should be acknowledged is what came after that. How we all evolved to live together and to become one leading to our ultimate success in the world. I myself, am proud to be British but also glad to live in Scotland. I love both but even if you don't i see no reason why you shouldn't remember the glory and sacrifice of our forefathers.

Be proud to be British and be proud to be Scottish. You don't have to be one or the other.

Excuse me Blue, this is a serious question. What does flying the Union Flag at a football game have to do with the brave men and women who have died in armed conflict? I mean, I agreen we should never forget them, but what does waving a Union Flag at a Rangers game have to do with them?

Sorry i didn't reply. I haven't been on.

On answer to your question i think about why we should fly the Union Flag i will say this. Do you have a problem with any other football club flying the flag of their nation? I don't. We should fly the Union Flag at Ibrox as we have done for over a century because we are proud to live in this country and we want to show it. That is the reason.

And as for what Rangers have to do with the men and women who died for our country i ask you this. Do you not think that on the year we commemorate 300 years of Union that it is only fair that we remember all those who fought to keep it that way? And if we are going to commemorate the Act of Union then we should be doing it in their name and for their sake. After all, if they hadn't given their lives on the battlefield the chances are that we would be under fascist rule and therefore there would be no Rangers. We should be thankful to all those who fought under the same flag that we will fly against Hapoel Te-Aviv and will continue to fly. That is why the Union Flag is important to us. We are proud of our nation and therefore hold the right to show it.

We are thankful, and we rememeber and commemorate the fallen every day - but if John Smith is a patriotic Scot, doesnt believe in the union and so refuses to fly his flag, that doesnt mean he is pooping on the memory of the fallen. This is supposed to be a celebration of the Union, which is a political statement in itself, if it is left at that and the individuals have their own freedom of choice whether to participate or not, then I am fine with that.

I just wish we would stay out of politics, religion, and all the other malarky and get back to football.

You cannot keep politics out of football because football has always had it's links to the politics of the time. To you the Union may just seem like a poltical statement and fair enough, but to me it is more than that. To me it shows just how great this country is that we can hold together a Union for 300 years after such turbulent and bloody times before it. It is an honour for me to be a part of it and that is why i want to fly the Union Flag and would be proud to do so.

Don't get me wrong though, i love being Scottish and i don't wish that i was anything other than Scottish but i am also British and people forget nowadays that you can be proud to be both. Too many people have been sucked in by the argument that if you are proud to be British then you are not Scottish. That is crap.

When I say politics, I mean that I am uncomfrtable with my football club taking a stance on any political issue. This I feel will be dodgy at the next elections when the nationalists are pushing for a vote strong enough to be able to push through a referendum on independance. If that happens, then I can see divisions occurring within our club and our fans. I would rather we stay out of it as a club - now as for individual fans, to me, they can do what they like as long as it is respectful to others of differing viewpoints and it doesnt get the club into bother

I think that is why it is important that we are flying both the Saltire and the Union Flag. So that all fans can feel proud and get involved regardless of their political persuasion. I don't like football clubs taking political stances either but a club like ours has had politics written all over it from the beginning and that would be very hard to remove if not impossible.

What really concerns me is that we end up splitting our support into factions and they both become more and more militant resulting in violence and shame for our club.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

Fair enough Bauba. I studied WW2 and i am fascinated by it.

Do you really think you could take Hitler's word for it though? He wanted to control all of Europe so that Germany could have "living space". :wacko:

Getting off the topic though.

its a toughie, but I think its backed up by his actions too - the way he backed off in 1939 at Dunkirk, removing his tanks from the chase to Dunkirk - that would make perfect sense. Plus his main stroke was always intended for Russia - he really valued the vast real estate in that country and despised communism. So as much as we know that his word was hardly his bond, these is a strong case that in thsi instance, he really wanted England on good terms. In fact, he called the English - our brothers lol!

Amazing really

Yeah Russia was undoubtedly the main objective because being a Fascist he despised Communism and wanted to destroy it. But i think he may have got fed up with Britain in the end because the media would have done his head in (more tha it was already).

I would be interested to know what he planned to do with America if he conquered them. Send the convicts there? It would have been Australia mark two.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I think that is why it is important that we are flying both the Saltire and the Union Flag.

The Union Flag includes the Saltire.

but will there deffo be Saltires? That was the original plan, but I've only heard about Union Flags recently.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I think that is why it is important that we are flying both the Saltire and the Union Flag.

The Union Flag includes the Saltire.

but will there deffo be Saltires? That was the original plan, but I've only heard about Union Flags recently.

I am sure that there will be both in even amounts. That was the last i heard anyway.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

[bauba30 1]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

Fair enough Bauba. I studied WW2 and i am fascinated by it.

Do you really think you could take Hitler's word for it though? He wanted to control all of Europe so that Germany could have "living space". :wacko:

Getting off the topic though.

its a toughie, but I think its backed up by his actions too - the way he backed off in 1939 at Dunkirk, removing his tanks from the chase to Dunkirk - that would make perfect sense. Plus his main stroke was always intended for Russia - he really valued the vast real estate in that country and despised communism. So as much as we know that his word was hardly his bond, these is a strong case that in thsi instance, he really wanted England on good terms. In fact, he called the English - our brothers lol!

Amazing really

Yeah Russia was undoubtedly the main objective because being a Fascist he despised Communism and wanted to destroy it. But i think he may have got fed up with Britain in the end because the media would have done his head in (more tha it was already).

I would be interested to know what he planned to do with America if he conquered them. Send the convicts there? It would have been Australia mark two.

Well, I do not believe he wanted any part of America - his hand was forced by pearl harbour, if it wasnt for that I dont think he would have declared war with them, unless the Yanks decided on entering the European Theatre themselves, although that was unlikely at the time

Yeah it is facinating to play the what if game

[bauba30 1]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

Because IMO SDM knows it's a hot potato - if it were just Union Flags he would be answering questions for a month. Hence the compromise

[*Manticore* 1,893]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

I would guess it would be a sop for the jacobites within our support.

[bauba30 1]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

I would guess it would be a sop for the jacobites within our support.

David, you say that like it's a bad thing (ooft)

I think it is probably more like to be to cater to the many within our support who are uneasy about the union and probably even more so to save him from the fallout afterwards

[eastcoastbear 122]

Found this elsewhere chaps................

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Bauba....can I ask you a question....do you live in America ?

I know it says Chicago on your profile.....is that accurate ?

[bauba30 1]

Bauba....can I ask you a question....do you live in America ?

I know it says Chicago on your profile.....is that accurate ?

Yeah, been in Chicago 8 months now - before that, lived and worked in Detroit 7 years. Emigrated out here in 99 to marry a local from Detroit. That's still going good!

Good out here, I ahve found a Scottish pub run by a guy from Dundee who sells Stovies!!!! But the bummer is the weather this time of year - wind chill was 65 below freezing point on Sunday!!

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Is it not the case in the good ole US that their flags are very much in evidence at sporting events....and in fact they play the national anthem before each fixture ?

[bauba30 1]

Is it not the case in the good ole US that their flags are very much in evidence at sporting events....and in fact they play the national anthem before each fixture ?

Well, the American Flag for sure - and yeah, they murder the anthem every game. Thankfully there is a movement to stop singing the anthem before every game - as when you get to the really big games and International stuff, it means less.

You know the Yanks overdo it though on everything of that ilk - I think it is more because they have a huge chip on their shoulder - I think to be truly proud of your country you need to know a bit about world history, and how your country is perceived around the world.

Most yanks dont know there are other countries....

I do see the point you are trying to make though, the main difference that i can see though is that you dont see political stances being made by teams. I was gonna say religion too but then I thought of Notre Dame and their Catholic connections. Actually, there are a lot of strictly Catholic teams, and High Schools too. The top High Schools pay big bucks to promising Catholic athletes to move house so they can play for their school. Crazy - of course, all the other schools want to get it right up those Catholic schools.

We had one in Detroit, Catholic Central High School, dominated every sport because they paid for the best - I was at a basketball game once where my Brother in Law's (he's a teacher there) school beat them on their own court. Dont know if I have ever seen happier people than the winning team that night.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Well at least you have seen the point I was trying to make.

I would point out though that the Union Flag is the flag of our country in the same way as the Americans have the Stars & Stripes....and pride in their nation appears to be the main motivating factor for flying it at sporting events.

Its not really Rangers fans fault is it that a large section of our rivals detest everything about that flag....I would suggest its they who are putting the political aspect into the equation.

The ridiculous thing is though.....that those who hate our flag....are probably Scots in the main....waving an Irish tricolour....its really hard to work out what they really want !

[bauba30 1]

Well at least you have seen the point I was trying to make.

I would point out though that the Union Flag is the flag of our country in the same way as the Americans have the Stars & Stripes....and pride in their nation appears to be the main motivating factor for flying it at sporting events.

Its not really Rangers fans fault is it that a large section of our rivals detest everything about that flag....I would suggest its they who are putting the political aspect into the equation.

The ridiculous thing is though.....that those who hate our flag....are probably Scots in the main....waving an Irish tricolour....its really hard to work out what they really want !

Oh I agree that there is hypocrisy all over the shop on that one.

Again, I would suggest a little difference in America to the UK. in the UK we are officially one nation as far as your passport or the European Courts are concerned, but the majority see us as Scottish. That majority is split into died in the wool Scots and Scots within a British framwork. So there is a lot going on there, lots of room for disagreement. So some see the Union Flag as their nations flag, some dont, it all depends on whcih side of the fence you are standing on.

Whereas in the US its straight up and down. Love it or leave it man is their cry - though i do enjoy winding them up about their 5 mins of history and their record on human rights - for soem reason they get a little tetchy on that topic. And when I hit them with, "if Stalin had been marching across Europe in 1939 you would have been over here so fast but Hitler was acceptable to you guys - as long as he kept the nasty communists down" yeah - the natives love that

Anyway, I digress, as for who is putting the political aspect into it? You are right in that fans of other clubs (not just Celtic) add to the political aspect of it, in essence they fan the political flames by their mere objection. I do also think we have an aspect of our support that are happy to grasp onto the flag, the songs, the traditions, and use them all just to wind up the opposition. In all honesty, I would be surprised if any of that lot even know when the Act of Union was, they just exist to get it right up the other lot.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

I would guess it would be a sop for the jacobites within our support.

David, you say that like it's a bad thing (ooft)

I think it is probably more like to be to cater to the many within our support who are uneasy about the union and probably even more so to save him from the fallout afterwards

Sorry yes I suppose I am guilty there.

I am happy for bears to have a range of opinions, I would hate to live in a world where everyone agreed about everything.

If nothing else we couldn't have these great debates on the interweb

[Gus2 1]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

You did those who fell fight the evil that was Facism in 1939-45 were are Heros who should be remembered those who fell in 1914-18 were led to war by those who put God King and Country before common sense (I view WW1 as a family squabble that got out of hand) but the men who fell in that war should be remember with pride because they died believing they were fighting for freedom. However neither of these Wars had anything to do with the Act of Union apart from the fact we might not have been involved in WW1 if we had been an independant nation.

I remember these words when Rememberence Sunday comes round

First they came for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up,

because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up,

because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one

left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

We shall remember them all those brave men and women who have fallen for freedom and democracy and those that have fallen in Wars which have and had no reason we shall remember their scarfice too.

No flying the Union flag celebrates the Union not those who fell for freedom or otherwise.

I know that I see those who died in the pointless WW1 as a cruel waste of a generation of men from many nations.

It seems that many see it in a different way