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RST launch 'We Deserve Better' campaign


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I won't profess to know the minutae of Murray's finances, but I'd say on the whole the man has been good to us. If anything we have been too successful under Murray with 9IAR and witnessing some brilliant players like Gazza, Laudrup etc come to Ibrox. Not many would have been bemoaning him back then for his personnel selections. I doubt you get to be a multi-millionaire business mogul making silly decisions.

As for the sale of players, if you look at Celtic handing £30k a week contracts to Balde, probably close to that for Donati (plus his £2.5 million transfer fee), Gravesen, Dui Wei, Adam Virgo, Glenn Loovens, Scott Brown will end up costing over £12 million if you add his transfer fee+ contract you really do see that a lot of the time they are no better than us with their signings. Even getting shot of Beattie for £1.25 million (+£500k depending on appearances) doesn't tell the whole story as strikers usually command more money, and especially young strikers who have been capped.

Rangers are being crippled by poor players on long contracts, efforts are being made to put an end to this. I'm sure a lot of clubs would love to chop 5-10 players, but I'm sure a lot of businesses right now would love to do that and it isn't easy to do legally or morally. If Rangers could sell Adam, Gow, McCulloch etc they would, but nobody wants them. That doesn't mean they are shite, it just means every other club is cutting its cloth accordingly.

For me while I have no malice towards Murray like some protesters I don't think embarrassing yourself, him and the club is going to find a buyer any quicker. Times are hard and it's times like this you support the club, fair enough you don't have to rejoice in Murray's name, but people need to realise that as the chairman he can't just get up and 'go' like a manager could.

The club was in the black during the 9IAR era and could easily afford Gascoigne and Laudrup. Wage levels were very much lower then and the gap between the EPL and the SPL not so great.

SDM arguably developed the commercial side of things in the early 90s and should be given credit for that, but it was basically the fans' money that was involved.

ENIC (£40m) had injected far more money into the club than SDM had (£10m) until the rights issue in 2004. True, Murray had bought shares from Gillespie and Paton, but this was aimed at increasing his percentage. Few appreciate that his initial shareholding worth £6m became £200m ten years or so ago. Despite the situation now, Rangers were certainly not always a hindrance to Murray.

Given that the new stadium had largely been built under tge Board of the late 70s, that English clubs were banned from Europe, that all clubs were forced to install seating in the 90s and that Celtic came second only twice during our 9IAR, do you not think that SDM is getting a little more credit than he really deserves?

Celtic's wage bill has averaged out at approx. £36m over the last few years. We got ours down to £24m but last season - largely due to bonuses from the UEFA Cup run - it escalated to £34m. A debt of £6m is now heading towards £30m, while Celtic's is practically zero. An interview with Murray alluded to slashing the wage bill to under £20m. Just what quality of player will we have now and what are the chances of winning the SPL title if Celtic have a 2 to 1 advantage?

I do not think our club is being run well. Murray may be around for years to come and I don't think we should accept this 'club's for sale' line as an excuse for poor performances on and off the park.

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The points made in the original statement are all fine but reading the chairmans statement this morning he obviously still hasn't frogiven the asset stripper nonsense of a few months ago and has no interest in speaking to the RST.

Without any meaningful dialogue and with the RSA speaking out against this it is doomed form the start…..

The issue is covered has been covered in every newspaper and was discussed on all Scotland's main radio stations last night.

I sense that the objective was to get the matter out into the open and encourage discussion, knowing that there will always be some who disagree. That's life.

Does anyone really care what the RSA says? The RSA was set up by the Murray regime to scupper the RST.

Who put the words into Ross Blyth's mouth last night? After all, he said that he agreed with most of the points the RST made.

I think there comes a point where 'dialogue' is pointless.

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I'd argue that a 'Give Youth A Chance' campaign would be equally as appropriate.

I am begining to have a real problem with all this youth stuff this MB is obsessed with.

If we had a group of arsenalesque youngsters sitting in the wings then it's a realistic debate but i just can't see who should eb coming in and who we are dropping ?

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The points made in the original statement are all fine but reading the chairmans statement this morning he obviously still hasn't frogiven the asset stripper nonsense of a few months ago and has no interest in speaking to the RST.

Without any meaningful dialogue and with the RSA speaking out against this it is doomed form the start…..

The issue is covered has been covered in every newspaper and was discussed on all Scotland's main radio stations last night.

I sense that the objective was to get the matter out into the open and encourage discussion, knowing that there will always be some who disagree. That's life.

Does anyone really care what the RSA says? The RSA was set up by the Murray regime to scupper the RST.

Who put the words into Ross Blyth's mouth last night? After all, he said that he agreed with most of the points the RST made.

I think there comes a point where 'dialogue' is pointless.

I care as much what the RSA say as what the RST say, both are sets of committed Rangers fans trying to represent us, to rubbish one of them is a joke.

I thought this wasn't an rst initiative according to David Edgar so why do you say it's the RSt making the points?

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I'd argue that a 'Give Youth A Chance' campaign would be equally as appropriate.

I am begining to have a real problem with all this youth stuff this MB is obsessed with.

If we had a group of arsenalesque youngsters sitting in the wings then it's a realistic debate but i just can't see who should eb coming in and who we are dropping ?

Where do we start mate.

Drop Ferguson because he's having a mare, move Davis into the middle and get Aaron out on the right wing.

We've not got a left winger because Adam is shite and Smith can't use Beasley right - get Fleck in there between the midfield and attack.

We've got a poor centre-back playing right back in the shape of Broadfoot and we've sent our best natural right back, Jordan McMillan, out on loan to Hamilton. I'll never understand why.

There's the three best youngsters we currently have, easily slotted into the team but I agree that it probably won't happen while Ferguson's picking himself every week.

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I'd argue that a 'Give Youth A Chance' campaign would be equally as appropriate.

I am begining to have a real problem with all this youth stuff this MB is obsessed with.

If we had a group of arsenalesque youngsters sitting in the wings then it's a realistic debate but i just can't see who should eb coming in and who we are dropping ?

Where do we start mate.

Drop Ferguson because he's having a mare, move Davis into the middle and get Aaron out on the right wing.

We've not got a left winger because Adam is shite and Smith can't use Beasley right - get Fleck in there between the midfield and attack.

We've got a poor centre-back playing right back in the shape of Broadfoot and we've sent our best natural right back, Jordan McMillan, out on loan to Hamilton. I'll never understand why.

There's the three best youngsters we currently have, easily slotted into the team but I agree that it probably won't happen while Ferguson's picking himself every week.

Naismith should be in before arron or Fleck at this point (and i thought Arron played on the left and fleck in the centre, does walter not get it in the neck for playing people out of position to shoehorn them in ?)

Mcmillan i will need to take your word on mate as i have hardly seen him play, i will montor him at Hamilton, here is hoping you are right.......

As for Ferguson i agree he is not at his best right now but he is nowhere near being dropped, even in a poor game at perth on tuesday his pass to Davis for the 2nd goal was outstanding, he is still one of the best midfielders in the country but he needs to find form...and coon

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I'd argue that a 'Give Youth A Chance' campaign would be equally as appropriate.

I am begining to have a real problem with all this youth stuff this MB is obsessed with.

If we had a group of arsenalesque youngsters sitting in the wings then it's a realistic debate but i just can't see who should eb coming in and who we are dropping ?

Where do we start mate.

Drop Ferguson because he's having a mare, move Davis into the middle and get Aaron out on the right wing.

We've not got a left winger because Adam is shite and Smith can't use Beasley right - get Fleck in there between the midfield and attack.

We've got a poor centre-back playing right back in the shape of Broadfoot and we've sent our best natural right back, Jordan McMillan, out on loan to Hamilton. I'll never understand why.

There's the three best youngsters we currently have, easily slotted into the team but I agree that it probably won't happen while Ferguson's picking himself every week.

Naismith should be in before arron or Fleck at this point (and i thought Arron played on the left and fleck in the centre, does walter not get it in the neck for playing people out of position to shoehorn them in ?)

Mcmillan i will need to take your word on mate as i have hardly seen him play, i will montor him at Hamilton, here is hoping you are right.......

As for Ferguson i agree he is not at his best right now but he is nowhere near being dropped, even in a poor game at perth on tuesday his pass to Davis for the 2nd goal was outstanding, he is still one of the best midfielders in the country but he needs to find form...and coon

If we're going to pick out single passes, I'll go for this pathetic attempt at a through-ball to Miller in the 2nd half that was probably the poorest pass I've ever seen from Ferguson.

Aaron is right footed and comfy on both wings and Fleck is naturally an attacking midfielder but totally comfortable sticking to the left hand side. Both could do no worse than what we currently have.

But Barry would need to miss out, but I think he deserves that based on recent form.

And I'd get Naismith in too, but up front in place of the heavily off-form Miller.

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you see I could make that arguement for some of the players walter "plays out of position", i hope you have not abused him in the past fopr that..... :ph34r:

The pass wasn’t really the point I was making it was Ferguson is capable of doing things on the park that probably only mendes in our current squad is capable of. If he is playing at the top of his game.

I would not be dropping that for a couple of untried youngsters at this stage. If we fall further behind sellck then I would give these guys a chance but when the gap , points wise , between the teams is as small as this then I would not be dropping the club captain.

Also the reports i have heard about arron is he is decent but not outstanding, so why all the hype ?

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The points made in the original statement are all fine but reading the chairmans statement this morning he obviously still hasn't frogiven the asset stripper nonsense of a few months ago and has no interest in speaking to the RST.

Without any meaningful dialogue and with the RSA speaking out against this it is doomed form the start…..

The issue is covered has been covered in every newspaper and was discussed on all Scotland's main radio stations last night.

I sense that the objective was to get the matter out into the open and encourage discussion, knowing that there will always be some who disagree. That's life.

Does anyone really care what the RSA says? The RSA was set up by the Murray regime to scupper the RST.

Who put the words into Ross Blyth's mouth last night? After all, he said that he agreed with most of the points the RST made.

I think there comes a point where 'dialogue' is pointless.

I care as much what the RSA say as what the RST say, both are sets of committed Rangers fans trying to represent us, to rubbish one of them is a joke.

I thought this wasn't an rst initiative according to David Edgar so why do you say it's the RSt making the points?

Do you know what the RSA actually is?

It was set up by Murray/McLelland as a means of strangling the RST at birth. It is funded by the club and that is naturally going to influence its view.

In circumstances where people's views are bought and paid for, I tend to care not a lot.

Ironically, Ross Blyth actually said that he agreed with most of the RST's points. So, why did he embarrass himself by defending the indefensible?

Incidentally, Jim Templeton, head of the RSA for the past 5 years, resigned a few months back and was highly critical of the club.

The 'We Deserve Better' campaign is a RST-led initiative, although I believe it is supported by other groups.

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you see I could make that arguement for some of the players walter "plays out of position", i hope you have not abused him in the past fopr that..... :ph34r:

The pass wasn’t really the point I was making it was Ferguson is capable of doing things on the park that probably only mendes in our current squad is capable of. If he is playing at the top of his game.

I would not be dropping that for a couple of untried youngsters at this stage. If we fall further behind sellck then I would give these guys a chance but when the gap , points wise , between the teams is as small as this then I would not be dropping the club captain.

Also the reports i have heard about arron is he is decent but not outstanding, so why all the hype ?

Playing Fleck as an attacking left winger, a position he's played numerous times before, is different to playing Whittaker at left back/right mid/left mid/centre mid or asking McCulloch to play centre mind or centre half though!

As for Miller playing right mid :blink:

While I see where you're coming from, I don't think 1 or 2 of the best youngsters in the team would do any worse than the current set up.

And as for Aaron, I suppose it's only the people who watched the U-17 and U-19 European/World Cup tournaments over the last four years that get excited about him, because he was such a stand out. He's certainly about a thousand times better than Adam and, as I keep going back to, certainly no worse than what we've already tried this year.

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The points made in the original statement are all fine but reading the chairmans statement this morning he obviously still hasn't frogiven the asset stripper nonsense of a few months ago and has no interest in speaking to the RST.

Without any meaningful dialogue and with the RSA speaking out against this it is doomed form the start…..

The issue is covered has been covered in every newspaper and was discussed on all Scotland's main radio stations last night.

I sense that the objective was to get the matter out into the open and encourage discussion, knowing that there will always be some who disagree. That's life.

Does anyone really care what the RSA says? The RSA was set up by the Murray regime to scupper the RST.

Who put the words into Ross Blyth's mouth last night? After all, he said that he agreed with most of the points the RST made.

I think there comes a point where 'dialogue' is pointless.

I care as much what the RSA say as what the RST say, both are sets of committed Rangers fans trying to represent us, to rubbish one of them is a joke.

I thought this wasn't an rst initiative according to David Edgar so why do you say it's the RSt making the points?

Do you know what the RSA actually is?

It was set up by Murray/McLelland as a means of strangling the RST at birth. It is funded by the club and that is naturally going to influence its view.

In circumstances where people's views are bought and paid for, I tend to care not a lot.

Ironically, Ross Blyth actually said that he agreed with most of the RST's points. So, why did he embarrass himself by defending the indefensible?

Incidentally, Jim Templeton, head of the RSA for the past 5 years, resigned a few months back and was highly critical of the club.

The 'We Deserve Better' campaign is a RST-led initiative, although I believe it is supported by other groups.

Funnily enough I don't need lectured as to what the RSA is from your perspective, I am more than aware what it is and I stand by what I said. They are so much Sir David’s lapdogs that the RST sit on the board.......

What are the other groups as the largest supporter organisation seems to be distancing themselves from it ?

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Suggestions that the "movement" is doomed due to the RSA showng an initial lack of support is off the mark imho. Indeed Scott Blyth last night agreed with a lot of the statement. There's not too much between Bears on this statement albeit there will always be a quibble or two with 17 points.

Sensible Rangers fans will find a way to work together and the RSA and RST have a lot of sensible fans.

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Funnily enough I don't need lectured as to what the RSA is from your perspective, I am more than aware what it is and I stand by what I said. They are so much Sir David’s lapdogs that the RST sit on the board.......

What are the other groups as the largest supporter organisation seems to be distancing themselves from it ?

The RSA is a contrived umbrella organisation and not a bona fide organisation in its own right.

I believe that the RST has a policy of co-operating with other supporters groups and there are those who would criticise it if it didn't. In the past, this co-operation has been beneficial to the Rangers support as a whole and, I would argue, for the club too. Relations between the RST and the RSA have been cordial.

However, if the stances of the RSA and the RST are implacably opposed over a certain issue, then the relationship between the two bodies may change.

I believe that several of the singing groups agree with the campaign and suspect that the Alliance will be too, since two of its leaders sit on the RST Board.

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Unfortunately the Assembly don't have much credibility in the debate. They have the numbers - albeit contrived - but they've offered little over the years in terms of genuine supporters' representation.

That fact Murray/Bain et al haven't sought to address that only makes the current chasm between the fans and the club wider.

We now need a bridge of some sort.

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Do the Trust pick and choose who they wish to invite to this so called Uniting of the Support?

There's no doubt they should have explored their backers before moving forward...

Most fans will share the concerns in the statement but everyone will have different ideas in how to approach the subject. Ergo, if the RST want to lead such a campaign and unite fans then they should have insured their own position first by being fully aware of people's opinions - their own membership, other fan groups, singing sections, forums, high-net worth fans and club figures could all have been consulted beforehand.

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Do the Trust pick and choose who they wish to invite to this so called Uniting of the Support?

There's no doubt they should have explored their backers before moving forward...

Most fans will share the concerns in the statement but everyone will have different ideas in how to approach the subject. Ergo, if the RST want to lead such a campaign and unite fans then they should have insured their own position first by being fully aware of people's opinions - their own membership, other fan groups, singing sections, forums, high-net worth fans and club figures could all have been consulted beforehand.

Fully agree and contacting us via PM to Jimenez on here after launching is hardly going to get us for supporting such campaign. I bet they didn't even consult the members on this Campaign before going ahead with it either.

Maybe the trust should look at responding to MEMBERS emails as to why they never supported the BBC protest before they look at trying unite the fans.

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Do the Trust pick and choose who they wish to invite to this so called Uniting of the Support?

There's no doubt they should have explored their backers before moving forward...

Most fans will share the concerns in the statement but everyone will have different ideas in how to approach the subject. Ergo, if the RST want to lead such a campaign and unite fans then they should have insured their own position first by being fully aware of people's opinions - their own membership, other fan groups, singing sections, forums, high-net worth fans and club figures could all have been consulted beforehand.

Unfortunately, the RST only use one fans publication for spreading their thoughts and words in print (I'll not go mentioning any names here), needless to say the other fans publication is kept out of the information loop. (I have my sources) :cool:

I have my own theories as to why this should be so, but it backs up Frankie's point that they should have consulted with various groups before launching such a controversial campaign.

PS. Euan Cameron is a wee wretch of a human being - never side with a dog like him.

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I'd argue that a 'Give Youth A Chance' campaign would be equally as appropriate.

I am begining to have a real problem with all this youth stuff this MB is obsessed with.

If we had a group of arsenalesque youngsters sitting in the wings then it's a realistic debate but i just can't see who should eb coming in and who we are dropping ?

Where do we start mate.

Drop Ferguson because he's having a mare, move Davis into the middle and get Aaron out on the right wing.

We've not got a left winger because Adam is shite and Smith can't use Beasley right - get Fleck in there between the midfield and attack.

We've got a poor centre-back playing right back in the shape of Broadfoot and we've sent our best natural right back, Jordan McMillan, out on loan to Hamilton. I'll never understand why.

There's the three best youngsters we currently have, easily slotted into the team but I agree that it probably won't happen while Ferguson's picking himself every week.

Take a step back from first team starters when you are talking about youth. Hows about players like Wilson, Fleck ,Aaron, Mcmillan, Furman providing the back up to the first team instead of players like dailly, mcculloch, adam, edu, Velicka.

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