BoltonLoyal 2 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Missed the point entirely I have my own views, but as far as following Rangers goes, I dont care what others believe, that is up to them, as you say, a personal thing However what I am saying is that division between the traditionalists and the modern fans is tearing a hole in our support - can you deny that? My point is that it is those that refuse to tolerate the opposite viewpoint (both sides) are to blame for where we are headed I have no personal grievance with ANY Rangers supporter regardless of age, religion, viewpoint (to a degree). My beef is it always seems to be the 'modern' supporter telling the 'old guard' to move on and update our views on what Rangers should be to us. I understand that views change by generation and the old ways are not embraced by the majority of younger Bears, but i'll be f*cked if i'm going to take shite off someone telling me what my views should be! I will however give you an example of my own personal Rangers Utopia - I'd like a chairman who has passionately supported the club all his life, who stands up to the constant bullying and biased reporting by the media. A man who believes in the Union, who understands what Rangers mean to (i won't say majority) a sizeable section of the support and acts accordingly. One who perhaps would re-introduce orange shirts (the filth aren't told not to wear green). Someone who fights fire with fire when the obvious disparity between what Rangers as a club are and the sporting wing of the PIRA is conveniently ignored. As someone stated earlier, Cltic are embraced by a sickeningly sycophantic mhedia who acknowledge their 'right' to celebrate their Catholic and Irish 'heritage'. The spineless toerags running our beloved club neither have the ability nor the inclination to address even this most fundamental unfairness. I am as We all Are, one of The People. I just think some of our People didn't come in on the same bus as me. No Surrender - not ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 But fact remains Rangers have indelible links to the Protestant religion as do Celtic with the papal sect. Why should it be construed as an evil thing? You could probably close the thread with that I think it would be better to finish it by pointing out that finally large sections of the support are openly making it clear they want anything to do with that. Ever increasing sections as well. Don't want anything to do with it, you mean? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukestreetsoup 69 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 But fact remains Rangers have indelible links to the Protestant religion as do Celtic with the papal sect. Why should it be construed as an evil thing? You could probably close the thread with that I think it would be better to finish it by pointing out that finally large sections of the support are openly making it clear they want anything to do with that. Ever increasing sections as well. Don't want anything to do with it, you mean? yes, thats what I meant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRangers 2 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 yeah i understand what totally what dummiesout is saying I'm only 19 myself and i go all over the country following the bears and i wouldn't trade it for anything but there are too many people attached to our support these days who treat following the club like some kind of chore or who are only there because theres nae rugby on or witever. It really annoys me when i see people of a similar age or younger ones on here coming out with stuff like "ohh isn't it about time we forgot all this being proud to be British stuff and why don't we drop the union flag as its makes us look like right wing hooligan supporting racists" or "lets stop singing the sash because it gives the mhedia ammo to use against or the why cant we just stick to rangers songs brigade" and other similar dross. Half of them sound like mopes in the way that they try to rubbish the history and traditions of our great club, they one they claim to love but the posters on here who get labeled dinosaurs on here will always be around and are not the minority like some would've ye believe, there will always me and more hardcore bears proud of club and country to take there place to defend and pass on the traditions of the club No surrender And there we have it - you have labelled all the fans who dont agree with the british and proddy traditions and lesser fans - and you wonder why they complain? lol Incredible How about taking the enlightened approach, that both sides have their views but at the end of the day we are all supporting the same team? As long as you respect the history and traditions of the club then ive no problem at all but if you want to rubbish and slate them and the support who hold them dearest then thats a different story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 good post dumiesoot and i understand, its good to see the amount of bears on the board who are proud of our past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 But fact remains Rangers have indelible links to the Protestant religion as do Celtic with the papal sect. Why should it be construed as an evil thing? You could probably close the thread with that I think it would be better to finish it by pointing out that finally large sections of the support are openly making it clear they don't want anything to do with that. Ever increasing sections as well. How are they making it clear? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 But fact remains Rangers have indelible links to the Protestant religion as do Celtic with the papal sect. Why should it be construed as an evil thing? You could probably close the thread with that I think it would be better to finish it by pointing out that finally large sections of the support are openly making it clear they don't want anything to do with that. Ever increasing sections as well. How are they making it clear? It's left me scratching my head as well. I don't see any mass protest over how the 'Traditionalists' celebrate the history of the club. Hate to even use that polarising term to be honest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootSpeedKillLight 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 But fact remains Rangers have indelible links to the Protestant religion as do Celtic with the papal sect. Why should it be construed as an evil thing? You could probably close the thread with that I think it would be better to finish it by pointing out that finally large sections of the support are openly making it clear they want anything to do with that. Ever increasing sections as well. Where are these ever increasing numbers of supporters? I've not seen any evidence of this at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasily09 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 yeah i understand what totally what dummiesout is saying I'm only 19 myself and i go all over the country following the bears and i wouldn't trade it for anything but there are too many people attached to our support these days who treat following the club like some kind of chore or who are only there because theres nae rugby on or witever. It really annoys me when i see people of a similar age or younger ones on here coming out with stuff like "ohh isn't it about time we forgot all this being proud to be British stuff and why don't we drop the union flag as its makes us look like right wing hooligan supporting racists" or "lets stop singing the sash because it gives the mhedia ammo to use against or the why cant we just stick to rangers songs brigade" and other similar dross. Half of them sound like mopes in the way that they try to rubbish the history and traditions of our great club, they one they claim to love but the posters on here who get labeled dinosaurs on here will always be around and are not the minority like some would've ye believe, there will always me and more hardcore bears proud of club and country to take there place to defend and pass on the traditions of the club No surrender And there we have it - you have labelled all the fans who dont agree with the british and proddy traditions and lesser fans - and you wonder why they complain? lol Incredible How about taking the enlightened approach, that both sides have their views but at the end of the day we are all supporting the same team? As long as you respect the history and traditions of the club then ive no problem at all but if you want to rubbish and slate them and the support who hold them dearest then thats a different story. I respect tradition - always have - I also respect the faith angle, the protestant links - however I have a problem when pro-proddy becomes anti-catholic - then we have dropped faith and replaces it with hate And as far as I can see - we have been heading down that road for at least a decade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummiesoot 16,005 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukestreetsoup 69 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 But fact remains Rangers have indelible links to the Protestant religion as do Celtic with the papal sect. Why should it be construed as an evil thing? You could probably close the thread with that I think it would be better to finish it by pointing out that finally large sections of the support are openly making it clear they want anything to do with that. Ever increasing sections as well. Where are these ever increasing numbers of supporters? I've not seen any evidence of this at all. On these very boards. People are coming out and saying they wont take any part of the religious side of things. People arent scared of the old ugly side of our history. Because that is what it is, bigotry was ugly and stupid then, just as it is today. A way of thinking practised by those who generally didnt do very well in school. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukestreetsoup 69 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Im afraid that is ridiculous. Your trying to say your version of traditionalism IS passion? That only older supporters understand what having passion for the club is? edit - basically your saying you cannot be passionate about the club with being a traditionalist. That is rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosesMcNeil 1,664 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. I'd argue that the huge majority supporting The Rangers wont accept second best. In that sense all can be considered traditionalist - one more element that binds us together - despite the best efforts of some to create division where none is needed or wanted. Just like diddies who claim supporters who go to matches through thick and thin 'are what's wrong with the club'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummiesoot 16,005 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Im afraid that is ridiculous. Your trying to say your version of traditionalism IS passion? That only older supporters understand what having passion for the club is? What is ridiculous about wanting to see some passion, also I definitiely said I don;t just include older bears, there is definitiely a group of bears APPEAR to accept second best, that is a modern bear to me, being prepared to accept standards way below what Rangers fans are used to, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootSpeedKillLight 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 On these very boards. People are coming out and saying they wont take any part of the religious side of things. People arent scared of the old ugly side of our history. Because that is what it is, bigotry was ugly and stupid then, just as it is today. A way of thinking practised by those who generally didnt do very well in school. I wouldn't call a few people on a message board 'large sections'. Furthermore I've not met anyone in person who thinks we need to get rid of the 'ugly' side of Rangers' past, whatever that refers to. It seems to me that the supporters who want to forget the club's past are the faceless ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukestreetsoup 69 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Im afraid that is ridiculous. Your trying to say your version of traditionalism IS passion? That only older supporters understand what having passion for the club is? What is ridiculous about wanting to see some passion, also I definitiely said I don;t just include older bears, there is definitiely a group of bears APPEAR to accept second best, that is a modern bear to me, being prepared to accept standards way below what Rangers fans are used to, I did not say wanting to see passion is ridiculous. Please read what I said. Its your comparism of traditionalism being passion. True that is part of it, depending on what your view of traditionalism is. Please tell me, what is yours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKai 439 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Im afraid that is ridiculous. Your trying to say your version of traditionalism IS passion? That only older supporters understand what having passion for the club is? edit - basically your saying you cannot be passionate about the club with being a traditionalist. That is rubbish. How can it be rubbish?? HE was the original poster, so whatever HE wanted to mean as 'traditionalist' is exactly that ! HIS version! Jeez! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukestreetsoup 69 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Im afraid that is ridiculous. Your trying to say your version of traditionalism IS passion? That only older supporters understand what having passion for the club is? edit - basically your saying you cannot be passionate about the club with being a traditionalist. That is rubbish. How can it be rubbish?? HE was the original poster, so whatever HE wanted to mean as 'traditionalist' is exactly that ! HIS version! Jeez! OK, so if his version of being 'traditionalist' is the history of our club, on the pitch. The highs and the lows of the games. The emotions they stir up. The passion for victory. The desolation of defeat. Then hell im a traditionalist. However given the use and meaning of the word both in the media and amongst the fans recently, I'd be surprised if that is what is being meant. If it is, then tradition all the way for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andygers 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I understand completely. Failure is not an option. In my eyes any place apart from first is a failure. I also understand the roots and traditions of this great club of ours. How can you ignore the Protestant roots of the greatest club in the world? Its completely absurd. Its like denying the roots of your family and not celebrating them because society looks down on it. We Are The People! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummiesoot 16,005 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see a few folk have misunderstood some of my original statements, the funniest being it looks as though someone thinks I beat my wife up when Rangers lose a goal, I do seriously mean an argument not literally a fight LOL. Still back to the main jist, i am glad i stirred a few people to respond, my main thrust of the 'traditional' angle was not totally aimed at the Protestantism side of things, perhaps i did not make that clear i meant that the bears I used to go to the games with care passionately about the team, tears, arguments, pride, hairs standing on the back of your neck, I can tell with the way Manti, Minstrel, D'Art and the rest write have a deep rooted feeling and it encapsulates the full range of emotions. The way some people write on here, and since I don't know most of you personnally (well don't think I know that many) i can only comment on what i read I don't see that passion coming through. When i say modern i don't mean young I mean those that appear to accept being second. Traditionalists WILL NEVER accept that. Im afraid that is ridiculous. Your trying to say your version of traditionalism IS passion? That only older supporters understand what having passion for the club is? edit - basically your saying you cannot be passionate about the club with being a traditionalist. That is rubbish. How can it be rubbish?? HE was the original poster, so whatever HE wanted to mean as 'traditionalist' is exactly that ! HIS version! Jeez! OK, so if his version of being 'traditionalist' is the history of our club, on the pitch. The highs and the lows of the games. The emotions they stir up. The passion for victory. The desolation of defeat. Then hell im a traditionalist. However given the use and meaning of the word both in the media and amongst the fans recently, I'd be surprised if that is what is being meant. If it is, then tradition all the way for me! welcome to the club mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The older bears will remember well the days when our club was run properly - where massive amounts of money was not squandered. Where the like of Speirs would have been hung drawn and quartered had he stepped inside Ibrox for the lies he has made up. Where Bears stood shoulder to shoulder..where unity was far more prevalent than division. These were good times....even when the team was not doing so well there was a real sense of brotherhood. Remember we had to go through the tims 9 in a row. So I fully understand what DO was getting at, without seeking to in any way diminish the passion of younger Bears for the club. I just wish they could have experienced some of unity and strength from those good old days... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 all i will say is in my days there was far more passion for the club. fans who had no money going to the pawnshop and pawn their clothes or any valuables that would raise cash, so that the could go and watch their beloved rangers. fans like myself who had no money would walk to the game and get a lift over the turnstiles to watch out team. other older fans would stand outside until they opened the gates with 20 min. to go and watch the last 20 min. other fans would go to moneylenders and have to pay double back to watch our team. i kept missing school just so i could watch the players training as you can tell by my english. grown men waiting for a saturday just to watch their beloved rangers, even though times were hard they would do anything to follow our club, and they are my kind of people, true loyal rangers men who would walk over broken glass to follow our team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianGer 1 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm working on an article on this just now but here is one example version of my view.... I think people have moved away from the traditions of our club when this occurs Loss of loyalty - I could not believe my ears when I heard the captain of the Rangers was openly challenging the authority of the manager. This should never have been allowed to happen. Rangers were never a club to wash their dirty linens in public. The chairman should have taken immediate control of the situation behind the scenes. If either the manager or the player went to the press, they should have been formally sanctioned, not tolerated. After considering what was in the good interests of the club, away you go and likely away you both go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckedroy 33 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have been supporting the team since I was 7 yr old - 1954. Still watch every game and as you know issue prematch analysis and match reports. Whether you are young, middle aged, older, if you have a love for Rangers and support them then its in your blood. Bears can have differences in their viewpoints. Pro or anti Murray, Walter, religion, etc. We are all different. The glue that bonds is simple - the love of Rangers FC. My thoughts exactly! If you feel real pain when the results go against us, and a Rangers win makes your life that bit better for the days between that win and the next game, that's all that is needed. Love of Rangers need not be founded upon "the traditions" to be real, and a love for "the traditions" doesn't make you any more or any less a Bear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brissybear 50 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have thought about nothing else since the sheep victory. It is back on. However, not being interested in Unionism, Her majesty, Loyalists, Orange walks etc does NOT make you any less of a bear than someone who does . In fact the latter tend to care more about thier right to hate fenains than have love for thier own club. Its the Blue Blue, sea of Ibrox.. Its the greatest site that ive ever seen... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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